Bites: What sayeth the community? Place holder watches - Great idea? Waste of money?

Placeholders. Interesting question without a definitive answer since every week we can read about someone asking advice or looking "to scratch an itch".

So we are down to personal opinions and mine is that buying a placeholder is at best a waste of time and money and is practically the same as buying a homage to "test the water" before committing to a costly purchase.

Personally, I never bought one watch because I wanted to buy another, but this is obviously not an opinion that is universally accepted or shared.

Placeholders still cost dollars so my personal opinion is not exactly a waste of money but also not a plan. If the desired watch is so far off that you require a substitute item, it might not be all that realistic unless some dramatic action occurs.

Because of my budget & previous life choices, most of my collection is a placeholder.

But I'm working on my reasons for wanting that Grail, and it would not be a huge surprise to me if I just bought an homage and called it good.

They're all good watches, Todd.

Thanks for the shout out!

Add for stand in watches, I'm a big fan. I have several that see quite a bit of wrist time.

Certina ds4 as a budget date just

Ti skx pelagos build for a really pelagos

Steinhart ocean one 39 and adventure 39 for a sub and explorer

Those are the notable ones, I'm sure if I think about I have other stand ins.

Thanks for the mention, it was a nice suprise!😁

And for the topic, I have just realised not long ago, that placeholders dont really work (for me). I have quite a few: Rolex, Patek, Grand Seiko👇

Okay I made up the last two for comedic purposes (as I feel it is my duty now to entertain) but yeah, its not really working, I want an explorer even more. It sucks to admit it, because I really tried to force myself to accept what I have and to laugh at the more (much more) expensive originals, but I only made a fool of myself.😄

I decided to stop buying watches just cos they are cheap and look good, and to save up and aspire to something that is actually unique.

My grail atm:

Oh I want me some german chrono goodness and I dont think there is anything that could replace it.

.... and in all honesty, I'm happy to keep the Ingersoll and the £6k in my pocket, rather than trade up.

You have captured the spirit of homage watches perfectly with that sentence. 👍

Yay! Thanks @nooski for choosing me as last week's winner! 🤗

As for @Deeperblue conundrum, I think placeholders only work for watches you can actually attain. Some of us aren't in the tax bracket to buy a Submariner even if one were to be magically available at an AD. So an homage would probably be the next best thing!

I'd also add, since I have specific design wants, my ideal Pelagos FXD would also be LHD and black. That doesn't exist at the moment and might not ever.

So Tactical Frog's FXD let's me have, what to me, is ideal.

Same could be said for some of my other ideas, which if I ever actually have the time (🤣) for will eventually mod out....

Just when I thought I was warming up to the idea of a "place holder" 🙄

I think there needs to be a pretty big delta between the place holder and the watch you want, if it's say 2500 bucks just buy the watch you want...but if the place holder is $500 and the target watch is $10k I think it makes sense. I don't believe in grail watches, dream houses or other...you can afford what you can afford and hopefully after all your investments etc are in order. Just my two cents...

Thank you for the write up Kaysia!

I have had two watches that, in restrospective, can be considered as place holders. At the time however it was not that clear to me. The CW C63 GMT, as in your first example, is one. I never saw it as an ExplorerII homage in the the first place, rather a GS homage. Having said that I now have handed the CW down to my son in law (to be) after requiring the E2. My 2nd one was my TagHeuer that I gave to my son after I got the Daytona. The Tag reminded me of the looks of the Daytona with it’t silvered rings for sub dials on a black dial. And I always liked the look of the black Daytona. Never thought I would own a Daytona so it wasn’t really a place holder, rather a nice looking alternative.

If we call them place holders I don’t see that as a bad thing. The Tag I enjoyed for several years. The CW about a year. But both served me well during my ownership and both found good homes close by. No regrets.

The other benefit of the place holder is when the substitute actually does such a good job you decide the costlier option no longer interests you.

This has been the case for me, many times. When I just started developing an interest in watches, I was attracted by the usual suspects of our watch enthusiasts' bubble; the subs, the explorers, the speedie, the BB58... all these common and obvious luxury picks we all see everywhere on social media until saturation. I never had a real interest in these watches, I just had not yet realized my options were in fact limitless.

But the unattainable prices lead me to look into so-called "alternatives" (big YouTube buzzword) and so I found out about the CW C63, the Lorier Falcon, the Mido OS600... And, once I had opened the Pandora's box of microbrands, that's when I realized there is so much more to this hobby than Rolex, Cartier, Omega, and Tudor.

Going down the rabbit hole of microbrands, initially in search of substitutes, made me discover brands I had no idea existed, which design languages and ethics speak to me on a much higher level. Exploring the vast catalogs of Farer, Baltic, Lorier, Serica, Vaer, Monta, Kuoe, CW, Brew, Yema, and more, opened my eyes to new designs that flipped my collecting philosophy upside down and quickly replaced all the "grail watches" on my list.

Most enthusiasts will say the natural journey of collecting is to go upmarket and dream of recognized luxury brands selling watches worth thousands. But my journey led me to a niche where original designs, marketing philosophies, and prices align more with my values and I'm so happy here that I can confidently say the costlier options no longer interest me.

Subsitute watches make sense only if the watch you are actually looking to get costs about 100x more than the replacement item.

If you could reasonably save up for the real one, then this is just a rounding error either way and does no financial harm while at the same time there is a chance you may not even want to real thing afterwards. So you come out ahead on average, in my book.

If you can't afford the real thing then that's your only option and you have to decide how bad you want it. If you like a watch you can't afford then you go for the next best thing, whatever that may be, substitute or entirely different model.

If on the other hand the watch, like the CW example, cuts into the funds of an Explorer then it makes no sense. The Explorer is more expensive, yes, but if you can't save up 10000€ for a watch that will last a lifetime then you most likely shouldn't be casually spending 1500€ on a watch that you don't even like properly. There is always going to be some trade offs and someone is bound to be the exception but typically I'd say buying a subsitute watch that costs over 10% of the real thing is not a great idea.

This was a placeholder for this:

Just kidding. I just collect junk and sometimes it all looks the same.

I’m all about place holder watches. And sometimes you end up loving them so much that you pass up on the goal watch.

I understand. If we’re honest with ourselves most people probably shouldn’t be buying luxury watches that cost thousand or ten of thousands of dollars. It’s a much better idea to penny pinch and max out your employer 401k contribution and invest the rest and let compound interest do its thing. Those people you grew up with were very wise. If an asset isn’t making you money, it’s a liability and you need to get rid of it. Everybody needs that hustler mindset where you keep grinding and compounding and growing your wealth and then eventually you earn the right to enjoy that wealth. I wish you all my best and enjoy your watches in good health! 🥂

Placeholders are a necessity for me since I simply can’t afford the watches that I really want. For me, my collection is by style or use-case… have a field, diver, vintage/heirloom, GADA, chrono, workout, dress, etc…

For me, I need to create a plan in order to achieve what I want to achieve. So I recently created a plan that starts with what I have now in each category, and ends with what ultimate watch I’d want in each category. Inbetween are what some would call “placeholders” but for me, it’s an avenue to enjoy similar watches in each category along the journey to my “end-state.” This way, I don’t just have to wait 5 years to save for the ultimate big watch, and I can enjoy cheaper watches of similar style along the way.

Sure I’ll lose money when I buy and sell the watches along the way, but to me, it’s worth it for the fun of enjoying all different watches. Plus, I know I’ll make some mistakes along the way, but that’s half the fun. I’ve already made some mistakes, buying watches too quickly or selling something I should have kept. But that’s part of the journey and part of the fun. To me, it’s not about the value and it’s not about achieving a collection to show off. To me, it’s the old adage “Life is a journey, not a destination”.

My Faith plays a big part in this for me too. I could always be giving more money away to charity. I should be giving until it hurts. My wife and I only allow ourselves a small slush amount each month to do what we want with for ourselves. So I usually use that for watches, but that means I have to save up for a full year for anything even on the cheaper end. To me, I enjoy sharing what I buy with others, my friends, meetups, talking with you all, etc. It’s all about sharing joy and love with others. Otherwise it’s all about ourselves and not our neighbors. Cheers Crunchers!

Buying to scratch the itch, or a placeholder is not something that I personally would do. If a given watch is beyond my reach I may buy something else if I want - I always do - a new watch. It may or may not resemble the watch beyond my reach, but never a placeholder or an itch scratcher

I guess I never buy a placeholder...

However, sometimes I buy too many of the "same watch" as my wife tells me all the time.

For example, I am a huge fan of Nivada Grenchen. So I have a few in the collection...somehow my wife cannot appreciate the distinction between them...the different types of hands, the different naming conventions and fonts, placement of the date, etc...makes sense to me 😉

Congrats @IanCognito! Your shot was surely the winner.

@Deeperblue Awesome convo starter as always. 🍻 For me, over the last 22 months, I've slowly learned to say to myself...

... and the well-known "Patience is a virtue."

On many an occasion, I had to quell and dispel the real temptation to "settle"... or most often, simply to slay the lustful dragon named Smaug in me who was attracted to gold and shiny objects. I've caught myself lusting, craving, seriously contemplating, rabidly searching and researching, making lists, specs and photo comparing, etc. etc.... in an attempt to justify to myself that this nagging itch deserves to be scratched!

On a handful of those clearly tempting moments, I found myself about to pull the trigger. A case in point was the Seiko Alpinist SPB249, with textured blue dial.

(Screen grab from Dave of Just the Watch)

Seeing all the many beautiful photos, and watching all the rave reviews online (including that of Dave & Teddy), definitely convinced me. I wanted it. I really, really wanted it. I already realigned most of the funds I allocated for another watch (Kuoe Old Smith 90-002). I was ready to purchase.

So, off I went to two Seiko ADs to check it out and their respective retail prices. I brought my lady along (who has an excellent eye for what looks good on me), to help "confirm" my choice. I did still follow the wise adage to "try it first on wrist (if possible) before buying".

So I did so, on visiting one of the ADs. I excitedly looked at it, and wore it on my wrist. A few moments passed by... and a few more moments. I rolled it on my wrist to catch different lighting angles. I looked deep into the dial... and zoomed back out and looked at the whole case itself. It sat there on my wrist... for a few more silent moments. But it just sat there on my wrist. I liked the triangle indices and what it represented. I liked the minute track located in the inner part of the dial. I liked the dauphine hands and nice arrow seconds hand. I liked the case shape and design.

But looking at it overall, it seemed bland than what I expected. More importantly, I didn't connect with it. My lady then said, "That blue one doesn't look good on you. The dark grey variant may be better." I didn't want the dark grey variant (SPB243). I wanted the blue one. Now, it seemed like I didn't want it.

I didn't outright let go of it yet. But, a visit to the 2nd AD finally convinced me. I really didn't like it after all. I got a hold of myself, and took my finger out of the trigger hole.

All these to say that, like any itch, you can either scratch it, or cure the underlying cause. 😉 It would be a shame for me, who equips people and companies in Problem Solving, to not practice what I preach. So, after this incident, I found myself doing a root cause analysis of why I was close to making that mistake.

I found out that one of the many real causes was my tendency for acquisitiveness. Instead of practicing the greater virtue of giving, I've been acquisitive. This episode with the Seiko Alpinist, and the consequent self-realization has really helped me even more to say...

Translated: That watch may be a beautiful timepiece, and may seem to be a very good addition to my collection, and/or a very good alternative to what I really want... but not today.

For me this doesn't work. I tried a few times but every time I look at the watch I know it is not what I wanted, thus couldn't enjoy for what it was. If the heart is set for something either save up and buy that or nothing at all, especially unobtanable pieces.

the Seikos are both saving room , keeping the cushions warm for a 39mm Tudor Pelegos ( blue ) for the SPB183 and a BB54 for the SPB147 and oneday after the lotto win there is no real substitute for an Omega Globemaster in Platinum:)

Placeholders are a good idea sometimes in certain situations. Like I’ve always adored vintage GMT Master Pepsis with aluminum bezel but I can’t convince myself to drop over $10k on a vintage watch so I went ahead and got the Black Bay GMT. It scratched my itch for the vintage look(in fact prefer the darker shades of the Tudor more) of the GMT master with over $6k in the pocket. I no longer feel the itch or the need to buy a vintage GMT master at all. My “placeholder” not sure if you can call it that if I don’t plan to buy a vintage GMT master has become my permanent companion.

But the examples shown like getting the CW instead of the Explorer 2 or the Lorier instead of Explorer 1 is imo not a very wise choice and only because you have an option to buy the watch you actually want brand new.

To sum up if the watch you actually want is available and sensible to buy, placeholder is a bad idea. Else placeholder all the way.

I don't really do grails, because I fear I would lose interest too quickly, like with other watches.

But I do do placeholders, not so much placeholders for another watch as for a particular watch type. And one of the few ways I can still justify to expand the collection (even to myself I'm running out of such justifications) is that a particular watch is an upgrade for watch type X, compared to the current place holder for X.

That is a very nice collection Sir!

The watches I really long for are WAY out of my reach. I make a solid salary but I cannot justify a 6-12 months' worth of pay for a single watch. That's retirement money. Sorry VC Overseas 18k and Platinum Day-Date Ice Blue with Diamond hour markers. I won't even attempt to fill those with something similar in design. Won't work. Will just piss me off that I won't buy the real thing.

Have found that placeholder watches do nothing to satisfy the urge to have a "dream watch". We are talking watches that are north of $6K.

Instead, I have decided to have a collection of examples that I would be satisfied if each was my only watch.

Most recently I have bought three Traska models. The 36mm Charcoal Black Summiteer has very much won me over in the sports watch category. For $1100 less than a Monta Noble. This is a compromise I can live with.

These explanations are all over the board. I have not thought of buying a homage or a similar looking watch in anticipation of getting the real thing. I have a steeldive because I liked the Willard, not because I planned on buying one later, which I later did. The placeholder can’t be viewed in hindsight. What did you intend at the time of purchase? Accidental placeholders seem nonsensical to me.

I think place holders are amazing for certain situations. For example, I knew that eventually I really wanted a luxury dive watch, but I was not sure exactly what brand. I also knew it was going to be a few years until I could afford it. But I knew I wanted it to be black dial and around 40mm.

So I bought the vaer D7 Atlantic 39mm case, 40mm bezel. It was my first watch with a Swiss movement and I absolutely loved it. Wore it every day for a year and it really helped me decide what kind of black dial diver I would buy in the future.

Still have it to this day and I will never sell it even though it’s very similar to other watches I own.

Nicely described the whole mental process. I could not have articulated the scenario any more succinctly! I believe this will be quite helpful to many , thanks 🙏

Thanks, sir. I had to articulate it primarily for myself, as some sort of catharsis, to further cement the lesson into my head, and ensure I don't make the mistake again. So, I'm glad my words gave voice to similar thoughts you had, and yeah, hope it helps many.