Bites: Is your collection ready to evolve?
Hey WC fam!
This week I want to talk about the evolutionary stages our collections can move through and whether we can compare the route our collections take to that of people who collect things other than watches.
(See how I am substituting the word ‘journey’ for ‘evolution’ to keep people from raging? 😉).
First, this weeks WC action….
Three quick bites from WC this week for those in a rush…
@Urologe’s post “The end of Casio” is definitely worth a read to get his take on the iconic companies potential decline.
Enjoy some Rolex inspired poetry from @Tr1stan
Learn more about our community members in @Pallet_Fork 's post: “What’s the meaning of your screen name?”
New members:
New members who I’ve seen posting this week…
@errikwong @JJMeeker @Watch_Addict @Tr1stan @VertReynolds @thatbaldwatchguy @CosmicWatch @ocsav1 @Imbriolo12 @Wristshotter @inwatcheswetrust @Mark63 @timesup @drcarter13
Welcome everyone!
Hot Posts:
This weeks topics that got the community talking…
“What style of watches do you NOT look at?” - @Time_Out
“What’s the meaning of your screen name?” - @pallet_Fork
“Dive watches: Do we need 300m+?” – @weedge
“Coolest name for a watch” – @Granddanois
“Do lume markers bother you?” – @brianmp21
“Just for fun: Do you tell your significant other when you buy a new watch?” – @Dlew919
“Watches feel underwhelming” - @alifetime
Meetups and Events:
24th May – Meetup exploring British watch design with fears, Schofield and Studio-underd0g – London
3rd June – So Cal meetup: free drinks, free-food and a special guest! – San Diego
14th – 16th July - Windup Watch Fair 2023 - Chicago
20th – 22nd October - Windup Watch Fair 2023 – New York
Big thanks to @Aurelian for setting last weeks photography theme based on the poem ‘Dolor’. His very deserving winner this week was @romaker with this beauty….
Come see the runners up and find out the chosen theme for this weeks photos here, which has been kindly set by this weeks guest judge @Porthole.
My picks from this past weeks watch releases.
Top row, left to right: Anordain, Hublot made from nespresso pods and coffee grounds, Omega aqua terra
Second row: OG deep space, Seiko peanuts, Seiko Astron, Undone GMT.
I decided it would be good to have a section for updates from the YouTubers, Podcasters and brandowners in our community.
“10 tips for spotting a fake” – @vintagebuzzpilot
“One of a kind dial due for launch” – @Selten
“Cheap watches are getting good” – @Max
“Mothers day interview” – @fiatjeepdriver
Longer posts from the knowledgeable and creative writers amongst the WC family….
“The architect’s corner”: My Italian beauties – @Architime
“Watches in the wild: Vol 35 – Borrowed time” – @Edge168n
“A Rolex problem” – @dwinfield
“Wardrobe and watches: Part 2” – @nytime
“Why don’t we talk more about… Ellicott” – @Velomax
“When the story changes - Part 2: The evolutionary stages of our collections”
I love hearing how people have grown their watch collections, what has made them decide on purchasing certain pieces, and I love the concept of a collection being a reflection of its curator. I also find it interesting when people decide to make a u-turn, and change things up to take their collection in a completely different direction.
Sometimes they decide move up the price ladder, sometimes down.
Sometimes they move towards vintage, or away.
Sometimes they move their loyalty to a different brand.
But I would say most frequently we see 'The Purge' to radically downsize the collection.
I wonder if these big changes are triggered by a realisation that we aren't getting pleasure out of the hobby that we once did, and so we try to look for a way to revitalise the joy we used to feel. Or maybe we simply hit on that one special thing in our collecting, perhaps that one watch style, that brings us so much joy, it make other aspects (or watches) superfluous.
During my recent decent into the YouTube playlist I came across several videos on collecting from members of the vintage gaming and toy collecting communities.
These videos talk about the stages of evolution of a collection...
“My video game collecting habits need to change”
“The WORST way to collect video games”
In summary, this is the evolutionary journey of their collections…
Collection 1.0
This is the beginning. You're buying what you love and what has meaning and significance to you. In the videos they speak about this in terms of either when you first start a collection as a child, or when you buy your first couple of pieces as an adult.
Collection 2.0
This can come when the collector has more disposable income or just when the obsession really starts to take hold. The collection size starts to balloon and collecting is done more for the love of the collecting process, rather than for the love of the pieces in the collection.
Collection 3.0
The evolution to Collection 3.0 happens when the collector reaches a tipping point and decides that the collection needs to become more refined. They look to take it back to it's roots of being something that brings joy, rather than just collecting for collecting's sake. Generally, a purging takes place and they turn again to collecting what truly makes them happy.
So, what do we think?
Is watch collecting comparable to these other types of collections?
Do collection evolutionary stages exist for us?
To me there are some important differences in watch collecting that perhaps make it difficult to compare.
We collect for different reasons
From a Wikipedia article on collecting:
“Although collections often include physical objects, marketing research theorises that collection may be in pursuit of something less tangible such as an experience, idea or feeling. This forms a foundation for applying theories of consumerism and materialism, which posits some intrinsic value separate from monetary value such as luxury, passion, spirituality, solidarity or nostalgia that motivates consumer behaviour.”
There will definitely be those of us that collect for reasons of nostalgia, as toy collectors seem to, wearing watches we saw on the wrists of our movie hero's or our parents as a kid. But I would guess this isn't the case for all of us. My impression is that our love of watches is more wrapped up in the aesthetics, mechanics and history rather than nostalgia, and so more linked to the values of luxury or passion.
Does this perhaps change our collecting behaviour in comparison?
Could the ‘why’ behind our collections govern the path the collection takes?
Perceptions regarding collection size are different.
When I watch videos of game and toy collectors, their collections seem huge in comparison to our watch collections. These folks display shelves upon shelves, entire rooms, multiple rooms, full of their most beloved possessions, and this doesn't seem to be perceived as anything abnormal or ostentatious.
I feel watch collecting is different.
The 'One watch collection', 3 watches, a completed watch box, seem more to be the norm, and almost coveted as collection sizes, and I very rarely see watch collections balloon to the size that some of these gamer guys collections grow to.
When I see polls or discussions about collection sizes on WC there seem to be a number of people with collections in the realm of 30 pieces, but many people seem to aspire to the 6-12 range, and the 200 piece plus collections (and much, much higher for some of our community members) are things of myth and legend, and this is despite the fact that I'm sure many of us go through the WRUR thread like...
I really can't imagine a game or toy collector having a 1 or 3 piece collection.
Is this purely down to cost?
I don't think that's the full story.
There are many watch collectors out there who could afford expansive collections, but the massive 'completionist' style collection doesn't seem to be a big part of our culture in the watch world.
If you think about the big YouTuber names in the watch game, I would say there are very very few who admit to having a 30+ collection.
Jody of JOMW said in his SOTC video at the end of last year that his collection went from 62 in 2021 to 75 in 2022, and the weird thing about this? He actually seemed apologetic about the fact it was that size.
He said that he was a bit fearful about making the video precisely because of the size of his collection.
Isn't it strange that the large collection can actually be maligned in our community at times?
What's all that about?
It almost feels that it's more acceptable to have 6 watches worth £100,000 than 100 watches worth £10,000.
Is this something to do with the fact our toys are wearable?
If someone buys too many watches are they denying them of their one true purpose of 'adequate wrist time'?
But toy collectors don't seem to let the fact they aren’t using their toys bother them. It's quite acceptable to keep toys in pristine condition their box...
People rarely (if ever?) on WC stating they were going to keep all the labels and stickers on all of their watches and leave them all in their boxes, unworn.
‘Safe queens’ aren’t something people tend to shout about.
Fluidity of the collection seems more the norm.
The 'Catch and release' mindset seems a much more common collecting style with watches than the toy and gaming world.
Buying a watch to enjoy for a few months and then flip it to fund the next piece is standard practice for us, whereas more nostalgic collections seem more about ‘having a full set’.
Again, maybe this is largely down to our collection being wearable, and how a piece looks on our wrist may be the one overriding factor of whether it stays or goes.
Maybe the fact that watch 'sets' are easier to complete, and more open to interpretation, makes us collect differently. 'Land, Sea and Air', 'Dress, Diver and Chronograph'. I imagine these are easier to obtain than a full set of Pokémon figurines.
Despite the differences, I do think that the collection evolution idea can apply us, but that which evolutionary path we take depends on our reasons for collecting.
For me, I can definitely relate to our toy and game collecting brothers and sisters and feel that I am in the transition between collection 2.0 and 3.0.
So… Where are you in your collection evolution? (Not journey... evolution...)
What have been your evolutionary stages and what’s your end game?
Any toy or game collectors out there who can comment on any similarities and differences between our communities and styles of collecting? My perceptions of it are only based on a few videos I've seen, so it would be great to have some insider insight!
Take care everyone!
Banner: Cool futuristic shot from @blu3b3rry
Part-time 'writter' @ The Escapement Room, the NSFW watch enthusiasts blog. www.theescapementroom.com/
More from DeeperBlue
Bookmarked for later reading but i wanted to be the first to reply!!! Woohoo 1st one!!… 😜 I think I’m going to liquidate my collection and just collect $$$$ and hide it under my bed 🤔, I’m partly serious …
Thanks for the shout out
Awesome distilling of the process you've been going through, @Deeperblue. Will be greatly helpful indeed, for me and many in our WC community.
Congrats as well @romaker for your excellent winning photo! 💯
I like that new Titanium AQ, but over 10k for grade 2 and no bracelet? I feel like the original blue dial steel model is still the winner here
Great write up Kaysia, as always. Congrats to you @romaker for your stunning photo.
I think I’m somewhere in the 2.0 to 3.0 area. With the kids out of house I definetely have more money to spend on watches than before. I’m still purchasing watches but I beginning to feel that I’m reaching a tipping point where I have to prioritise new purchases. And also to let go in the back end. This is a hard bit ’cause there is very few I want to get rid of.
My watches don’t get equal amount of wrist time. But that is nothing that bothers me. I see them as toys or jewelry that I can enjoy without having them on my wrist.
I still like vintage but changed focus from 50s and 60s dress pieces to more sporty ones from the 70s. I still love my dress pieces but it’s harder to find something that add something new to the ones already there. And it’s still not collecting imo. I’m just hording and buy what I like and can afford with no well defined theme.
Bookmarked for later reading but i wanted to be the first to reply!!! Woohoo 1st one!!… 😜 I think I’m going to liquidate my collection and just collect $$$$ and hide it under my bed 🤔, I’m partly serious …
I get the impression you're very much enjoying your collecting Ichi, so you're obviously doing something right! Don't feel compelled to change if you're happy!
Thanks for the shout out
You're welcome!
Hello, great take on collecting. As a long time collector of many things, I see a great deal of validity in your perspective on the fluidity of a collection, passing through various stages. Although I am no longer brand new to watch collecting, I feel I am pretty much a noob compared to some of the veterans (been seriously collecting for five or six years, although I have owned watches almost all of my life). However, I found myself pretty rapidly in the third phase of collecting. I have done the "great reduction/refinement" and sold a bunch of my watches off, while developing specific sub-collections within my collection that continued to expand/grow. The three sub-collections that continue to grow are my vintage and digital collections, with some overlap in vintage digital watches, and the third is my air, land, and sea collection, what I like to call my "pilots and divers and fields, oh my" collection. 🤣 I have been in the third phase for about three years, with the great reduction coming about a year ago and continuing to the present. I see myself settling around 12-15 watches in each sub-collection eventually as I continue to refine my overall collection, leaving me with between 40 and 50 watches in my total collection.
I began collecting in the lower tiers of watches, with Invicta and Fossil, but rapidly moved to Seiko and Citizen, among others. I then began to explore, adding some entry level Swiss watches and microbrands, but still striving to have a larger and larger collection. I reached that point, you know, the one where you realize it is no longer a collection but an addiction of sorts, and I made a change. I began reducing but at the same time I have been adding some lower mid-tier watches to my collection like like my Hamilton Khaki Aviation Flight Timer.
I see myself adding more mid-tier watches as my reduction/refinement continues, like Longines, Oris, Ball, and even Grand Seiko.
Awesome distilling of the process you've been going through, @Deeperblue. Will be greatly helpful indeed, for me and many in our WC community.
Congrats as well @romaker for your excellent winning photo! 💯
It's an ongoing turmoil 😆
It goes from...
to...
... throughout the day.
I like that new Titanium AQ, but over 10k for grade 2 and no bracelet? I feel like the original blue dial steel model is still the winner here
It's the colours which I particularly love about these new ones and I'd be really interested to see one in person. You're right that the steel is a killer though. I was lucky enough to try one on at the meetup last Christmas and thought it was gorgeous.
Great write up Kaysia, as always. Congrats to you @romaker for your stunning photo.
I think I’m somewhere in the 2.0 to 3.0 area. With the kids out of house I definetely have more money to spend on watches than before. I’m still purchasing watches but I beginning to feel that I’m reaching a tipping point where I have to prioritise new purchases. And also to let go in the back end. This is a hard bit ’cause there is very few I want to get rid of.
My watches don’t get equal amount of wrist time. But that is nothing that bothers me. I see them as toys or jewelry that I can enjoy without having them on my wrist.
I still like vintage but changed focus from 50s and 60s dress pieces to more sporty ones from the 70s. I still love my dress pieces but it’s harder to find something that add something new to the ones already there. And it’s still not collecting imo. I’m just hording and buy what I like and can afford with no well defined theme.
I aim to move from a large collection of watches I like, to one filled with watches I love.
At the suggestion of @SurferJohn and @cyclopseye I decided to get a clearer goal in mind, and compiled a photo collage of my perfect collection....
You and @CHAMPAGNEONME may recognise some pieces 😆
I aim to move from a large collection of watches I like, to one filled with watches I love.
At the suggestion of @SurferJohn and @cyclopseye I decided to get a clearer goal in mind, and compiled a photo collage of my perfect collection....
You and @CHAMPAGNEONME may recognise some pieces 😆
Good thinking👍 So how many will you have up for sale. I will see if I can spot a ”ruined” Constellation for you.
Hello, great take on collecting. As a long time collector of many things, I see a great deal of validity in your perspective on the fluidity of a collection, passing through various stages. Although I am no longer brand new to watch collecting, I feel I am pretty much a noob compared to some of the veterans (been seriously collecting for five or six years, although I have owned watches almost all of my life). However, I found myself pretty rapidly in the third phase of collecting. I have done the "great reduction/refinement" and sold a bunch of my watches off, while developing specific sub-collections within my collection that continued to expand/grow. The three sub-collections that continue to grow are my vintage and digital collections, with some overlap in vintage digital watches, and the third is my air, land, and sea collection, what I like to call my "pilots and divers and fields, oh my" collection. 🤣 I have been in the third phase for about three years, with the great reduction coming about a year ago and continuing to the present. I see myself settling around 12-15 watches in each sub-collection eventually as I continue to refine my overall collection, leaving me with between 40 and 50 watches in my total collection.
I began collecting in the lower tiers of watches, with Invicta and Fossil, but rapidly moved to Seiko and Citizen, among others. I then began to explore, adding some entry level Swiss watches and microbrands, but still striving to have a larger and larger collection. I reached that point, you know, the one where you realize it is no longer a collection but an addiction of sorts, and I made a change. I began reducing but at the same time I have been adding some lower mid-tier watches to my collection like like my Hamilton Khaki Aviation Flight Timer.
I see myself adding more mid-tier watches as my reduction/refinement continues, like Longines, Oris, Ball, and even Grand Seiko.
Thank you for sharing the stages your collection has gone through.
I would guess that you have a larger than average collection, so would you say you collect mainly for the appreciation of the watches as objects, rather than feeling you need a watch for certain situations or outfits?
(I get the impression you're all about the fits 😎)
I wonder if the '3 watch collection' is the more practical side of the collecting spectrum and 20+ is more about enjoying them just for their own sake.
Good thinking👍 So how many will you have up for sale. I will see if I can spot a ”ruined” Constellation for you.
My plan is to part with 12 I think.
I'm going to go through them again tonight and add a few more to the "For Sale" watch box.
Thanks for the post, interesting questions raised. I think we are different to gamers and toy collectors in many ways. As for status I woukd say I am at 3 but would need many sub status as this is not the end, we just begun properly🙂
Aye, i am glad i got mentioned ♥️♥️♥️
And happier about my post resonated with many people 💐
Thank you for sharing it with us. 🍻
Do I have to change my chrunch(y) name now 🙈😅?
Very interesting topic. 👍💪…. Now I have a lot to read.
No!
Your name is iconic now!
If it wasn't already taken I'd have it just to troll @Aurelian .
Actually... maybe I should become @Deeperjourney?? 🤔
I am at part.3 if it applies to all of us. Down to to bare essential watches... What if it's cyclical and not linear?
I think you are the canary in the mine to see if that's the case!
No!
Your name is iconic now!
If it wasn't already taken I'd have it just to troll @Aurelian .
Actually... maybe I should become @Deeperjourney?? 🤔
WC has a rule against porn names.
No!
Your name is iconic now!
If it wasn't already taken I'd have it just to troll @Aurelian .
Actually... maybe I should become @Deeperjourney?? 🤔
😂… I am cool with iconic 😉
So what did you decide was the best method for getting your hands on a Yatch-Master?
I'm currently awaiting an explorer and am trialing my own method to expedite the process 😆
I'm applying the D's to success to operation "Obtain a Rolex at retail from an AD". 😉 Determination, dedication, and discipline. After the Yachty, it'll be the panda Daytona 126500LN (with other watches sprinkled in between LOL). Goal is to succeed within the next 5 years. 🙌
Such an interesting topic. I used to collect starwars toys (got more than 100+ mostly trooper and sith) starting when i was young. Everytime there is a starwars movie i always bought a few figure and when disney bought a starwars franchise there is always a new star wars movie. And when there is a movie there are new released figure. After a certain point i realised there is no end of it, and while we grew older there are more bills to pay, more financial responsibilities to take, and of course there arent any left space inside my display box 😁. So i decided to stop collecting toys altogether. When it came to watch, i started this hobby at the older age and from my previous experience more isnt always better. So i try to kept my collection small but meaningful, just buy what i really like with more thoughtful consideration. And for now i think im happy with my small collection
For me, I'm going to try and tame the beast before it gets out of hand.
Realistically I'll be selling about a dozen watches... which feels manageable... I could easily let my collection extend into the 100's, and that would feel like quite a struggle to reign in at that size.
Nip it in the bud (or maybe trim the tree) sounds a great plan, I've added another 3 to the pile now as a modern larger replacement is incoming so 3:1 ratio (and hopefully nearly cover the cost, nearly😉)
I appreciate the thoughtful approach to the topic of collecting by OP. For being into watches for 12 years, I think I have been a ‘3.0’ for a while. Everything is more stable and the buying and selling happens a lot more slowly. I still feel impulses to buy, but I give it a week and they often pass. If a certain model becomes an intrusive thought for over a month, I start to consider it and what it might replace.
I am approaching another thinning of the collection right now but it is so darn hard given that I feel connected to most of them.
Overall, I have never considered myself a ‘collector’. I am a watch enthusiast who wants to give his few watches adequate wear. I don’t like seeing them sit. I am very much interested in the relationship I have with a watch as much as the watch itself.
Silly comparison, but I just like this quote:
Collecting is in your bones then it seems!
Why do you think your joy for collecting watches has continued when other collections have lost their spark?
I wear it on the wrist and can appreciate them more than stamps or Kachinas. I've moved on from the other 2 collections. Maybe that's a 4 on collections.
You the best Kaysia! Keep up the great discussions.
Best
John
So what triggered the change do you think?
Was it just experiencing more watches that made you decide dials was wear it's at?
Really it was just discovering what makes me happy. It's so easy to get persuaded into wanting a watch based on other peoples opinions. What really turned me around was my first vintage Seiko.
I realized that what I liked was all the retro re-issue watches that were coming out.
So why get a new re-issue when you could have the original. My first objective was to find a quality watchmaker. Fortunately my local watchmaker likes to trade wine for work. I work in the wine industry so I have lots of wine at my disposal.
Once I started learning more about the history of Seiko I became inthralled with researching the designs and movements. I decided that I would primarily focus on Seiko and learn everything I could about the company and it's designers.
Now I have 3 sellers that I buy from exclusively as I know that I can trust them. As my vintage collection grows I'm always clearing out anything that doesn't get wrist time. I've since met a new watchmaker that does all my service and repair work. He is very reasonable and also open to trade for service so it's a great relationship. If I can pay 100.00 for a watch that's going to get me 200.00 in service trade it's a no brainer.
This one has been on WRUW multiple times but was running a little slow. So off to the Watch Spa to get a fresh start on life. Should back any day now! But it will be a great watch long past my time with it.
Thank you for the mention!
That's some interesting food for thought. My collection is approaching 20, I'm definitely a 1.0 level collector. What I'm discovering is that every new watch, and I thoughtfully add watches that have something my existing watches don't have teach me something about what I like and don't like. Very early on I obsessed about a JDM Seiko Chronograph I saw on Sakura. When I finally got it in hand I realized a few things among which is...I just don't like chronographs because of the busy watch face. Likewise as I get new watches I'll run across other things, like watchbands or clasps that differ from what I have in the collection already and teach me something. I've also learned from my Bulova that I really like larger watches and hefty weighted bracelets. Perhaps when I feel like I've learned enough I'll start focusing on a smaller collection - we'll see. I think I'd rather have options to suit my mood than a lot of money invested in individual watches. There's something about high dollar watches that just doesn't make sense to me.
I aim to move from a large collection of watches I like, to one filled with watches I love.
At the suggestion of @SurferJohn and @cyclopseye I decided to get a clearer goal in mind, and compiled a photo collage of my perfect collection....
You and @CHAMPAGNEONME may recognise some pieces 😆
I'm in the final stages of my plan and it is working. Very pleased with how things have worked out. Despite the fact that I have what some would call a large collection, it has become much more managable and actually makes sense.
Just remember,
"You don't have to come all the way out of the rabbit hole, you just have to see the light."
Very interesting article with some though provoking questions. I think a lot of us like to think we are different. Perhaps we are just different in the same way so as to make new group of like-minded individuals. I don’t know. I’m not a collector per se. I don’t have any other collections. I started collecting watches late in life, at 56 years old. It started with a YouTube video (JOMW) on the Bulova Lunar Pilot. I had a Citizen Military Diver and I wanted a chronograph. The video came at the right time. I bought the Bulova within the week. Then I began watching Jody’s channel…and Dave’s channel…and Jory’s channel…and on and on.
I’m not shy about my collection. I currently have 39 watches and one on order. I have more on my wish list than I can count. I really look for bargains, sales, closeout, etc. As a result, I have about $7500 invested (for lack of a better term) on my entire collection. According to the actual value (not the inflated list prices), the collection could have cost me from $15k to 17k. I do not have any luxury watches. There are four “luxury chronographs” from which I would love to own one: the Detroit Watch Company Le Mans Classic Chrono, the Hanhart Racemaster GTF, the Tag Heuer Formula 1 or Monaco in Gulf livery. However, I don’t see my collection evolving to this stage. I earn a good living but I grew up blue collar and I’ve worked very hard to get where I’m at in life. We spend our money mostly on our home and property. We try to keep the cost of our hobbies modest. I will continue to add watches as I discover watches I like. I haven’t sold any. I gave a few to my son before I realized that my wrist is too big for certain size watches.
I see evolutionary changes in my collection style. First, I don’t chase brands as much as I did. I think this is the result of some maturation as a collector. I now respect many more brands than I did when I started so I’m open to investigate any brand I come across that interests me. Second, I have categorized my watches. The categories are: Casual/Dress, Diver, Driving/Racing Inspired, Military/Field, Military Diver, and Pilot (Flieger/Chronograph). This may sound silly but these categories help to prevent me from purchasing a watch that I won’t wear very often. For example, I can ask myself, “Do I really need another military inspired dive watch? I already have X number and I don’t wear these as often as the chronographs.”
Anyway, I will keep buying until my wife asks me to slow down or stop…for a while. Then I’ll put headers on my G8 and she’ll ask me to start buying watches again.