Bites: The evolution of the watch snob. Can it go both ways?
Happy Tuesday fellow Crunchers!
This week I'm going to give my take on watch snobs. Not everyone is going to agree with me, but I'm up for a bit of spirited debate, so have a read through the other cool stuff going on around WC this week and then meet me at the end.
Just before we jump into the other news from this week, I just wanted to congratulate @Porthole and @BadgeHoarder for their triumph in the #1WC challenge! Well done to both of you!
Three quick bites from this week's WC, for those in a rush.
"Travel watch to go all over the world" - @benandwatch
"Steps in the horologists path to healthful existence" - @thebluedial
"So you're attending Hogwarts. What watch are you taking?" - @The_Timist
New members:
New members who I have seen posting this week...
@bakunawa808, @Ang543, @WhatsTheTimeShiv @Urtoinpo @naydan @wallyfdog @janniswiese @M.B.David @andre.321
Hot posts:
This week's topics that got the community talking.
"I'm done with watches" - @Hakairoku
"How did your watch journey begin?" - @Faceless
"How do I balance wearing an apple watch and a real watch" - @formerlyEddie
"Crazy for not liking Tudor?" - @insane81
"Apologies if I'm being boring" - @Faceless
"How do you manage a collection with mechanical movements?" - @jrfeeed
"Watch while sleeping" - @noartfoundhere
"What's your dream three watch collection?" - @macrowatchman
"Will gold watches make a comeback?" - @formerlyEddie
"Your favourite lume watch, and why?" - @SurferJohn
Meetups and events:
13th July - Meetup exploring sustainability in the watch industry with oris - London, UK
14th – 16th July - Windup Watch Fair 2023 – Chicago
15th July – Watches, coffee and sophistication meetup – Bloomington, IL
17th July -Patek post war Marcel's online meetup and discussion - London, UK
20th – 22nd October - Windup Watch Fair 2023 – New York
8th December – London Christmas Meetup – London, UK
A big thank you to @JaeBust, who helped organise last week's photography challenge and chose the theme of "Rows of things".
His winners this week are these amazing shots...
Well done!
Come and see the runners up and find out this week's theme here.
My top picks from this week's new watch releases.
Top row, left to right:
Alpina, Breitling, Voutilainen, Norqain
Bottom row:
Glashutte, Ochs und Junior, De bethune, Christopher Ward
Updates from the YouTubers, podcasters, brand owners and watch makers in our community.
"My first YouTube video: Tudor Black Bay" - @UnreservedGoods
"Unusual watch dials, from bullets to dinosaurs" - @Illuminatingwatched
"Next week's review..." - @MWC2020
"My first Omega purchase. Can you guess the model?" - @ckim4watches
"The head and the heart" - @Max
Longer posts from the knowledgeable and creative writers amungst the WC family.
"Nivada Grenachen f77 - blue woven dial: my initial impressions" - @KhronoKraze
"Rolex Daytona alternative for any budget" - @linhnghiem
"Seiko and giugiaro: A history of collaborations" - @illuminatingwatches
"I'm super obsessed with Seiko. What about you?" - @laikrodis
"One done: Chapter 7: Jaeger lecoultre" - @defsNOTgenta
"The integrated sports watch will never die" - @Finnarm
"Tales from the paddling pool - Part 2" - @casiodean
"The evolution of the watch snob. Can it go both ways?"
We all have the idea in our heads of the stereotypical watch snob.
They are usually middle upper class, with aspirations of being higher up the ladder, very opinionated and Rolex wearers.
They hate quartz and anything ‘common’ that is too accessible to the masses. They lust for the rare and exclusive… until it comes into the reaches of the common riffraff, then it becomes an object of distain.
They wear suits, designer labels or polo shirts and chinos, and enjoy wrist shots with the steering wheel.
There are a number YouTube videos about how much we all hate and how to buy a watch 'even a watch snob can't hate'.... Which I find very ironic... Why are we supposed to buy watches based on a snobs opinion? But, whatever.
But this view of the watch snob is getting a bit old and needs a refresh.
Now, occasionally I do see a bit of a push by the community to reclaim the word as meaning something gentler, e.g:
"I'm a mechanical watch snob, so I don't have any quartz in my collection."
That's not snobbery in my opinion, it's just a preference for mechanicals, and it’s fine. There is no law dictating we all need to like quartz. You don't have to have a G-shock in your collection just to prove you're not a snob.
Snobbery to me, at it’s core, is people casting judgement on others based on their watch choices.
If you actually google ‘snob’ there is much talk about it being related to money and social status:
“a person with an exaggerated respect for high social position or wealth who seeks to associate with social superiors and dislikes people or activities regarded as lower-class”
But I think we need to be using the alternative definition:
"A person who believes that their tastes in a particular area are superior to those of other people."
Now, you may be looking at me like…
"Why the hell does this even matter?"
It matters because this new definition allows us to include a new breed of watch snob that nobody ever seems to call out.
This new snob comes from the other end of the watch affordability spectrum.
They focus almost exclusively on affordable watches and find the thought of spending anything more than two or three figures on a watch pretty ridiculous. They have a deep love of Casio's, eBay bargains and Ali Express, and a dislike of influencer hyped luxury labels.
So far, ALL OF THIS IS FINE and pretty much applies to me! It's all just preference.
What's not cool is when these opinions turn into judgement on the choices of others
Now, let's clear something up before we go further.... OPINION is different to JUDGEMENT.
If you post a watch in the community and ask for opinions... expect to get a wide range of them and expect many of them not to match your own.
Judgement is when someone is criticizing the buyer, rather than the watch.
Opinion: "I don't like quartz watches. I think mechanical are superior."
Judgement: "People who buy quartz watches are only doing it because they can't afford anything else and they don't know any better."
Opinion: "I would never spend that much on a luxury watch."
Judgement: "People who buy luxury watches are idiots for spending that kind of money."
Don't get me wrong... we can all be a bit judgy, and I bet there were some of you reading all those comments above and being like....
But let's just keep it in our head shall we.
So, now we know what a watch snob looks like in all its forms, how do we tackle one?
I'm sorry, but this isn't going to be the answer you want... You want me to give you a killer witty retort that you can throw back at them, making you winner of the internet that day.
Afraid not.
The sad answer is you just have to ignore them.
I know! I know! How boring is that! But it's true.
If it's a forum interaction (which, let's face it, it absolutely is since who the hell is going to talk watches to us irl?) then not 'feeding the troll' is the way to go.
You will never ever win an argument with these people because these beliefs are just part of their core values, so don't even try.
But, one thing I HATE seeing in response to watch snobbery, is when the individual on the receiving end AGREES WITH THE SNOB!
The Other Guy: "Hey! Look at this cool watch I bought today!"
Snob: "Jesus, what were you thinking?? The sale's woman must have been well hot to convince you to buy that! Lol. Please tell me you have better watches than that one at home."
The Other Guy: "Yeah, I just bought it for a laugh. I know it's s*** and I have loads of better watches. It's just a beater really, just a bit of fun."
It just drives me nuts. Don't be that guy.
And certainly don't feel you have to buy a watch 'not even a watch snob can hate'.
***
So what does everyone else think?
Does snobbery, by definition, need to involve looking down on cheaper watches?
Or can it go both ways?
Looking forward to the discussion (I think!).
Take care everyone,
Kaysia.
Part-time 'writter' @ The Escapement Room, the NSFW watch enthusiasts blog. www.theescapementroom.com/
More from DeeperBlue
First !!! Boom!! Haha!
I’ll read for later 😜
Just wanna be the first!! Woot!!
Thank you for the mention, kind young lady, and the pleasure was all mine. Nice writeup, by the way, as usual! Cheers 😊🥂🍾
Ok read it! MUTE IS OUR Friend!
😜
Not sure. Usually snobs beleive they are generally superior, not just superior in their watches, but in the rest of life and somehow, to them, it seems inherent that they are just generally better.
However "Reverse" snobery, whilst critical on the particular topic, tends less toward the generalised disdain of the other, usyually not regarding the other as inferior in other aspects also.
So yeah. I reckon there is a difference.
Thanks for the shout out @Deeperblue! I can't wait to read the rest of your pics.
Great read ... thanks! Pretty much spot-on 😀
Since a young child, I've not appreciated cliquishness' nor opinionated, judgmental behavior. Once said to a neighbor who was loudly stating his rather ill-informed point of view, that a loudly expressed opinion does not make it a more valid one. He just gave me a weird look LOL!
Excellent post and I completely agree. Low-brow can be a snobbery and superiority all it’s own. Elitism vs populism are, in many ways, two sides of the same coin.
Here is a clever thing that some wag wrote last year. It seems to have lost some comments as users delete their accounts and move to who knows where.
There are so many weird little bits of snobbery if you just look. The Bracelet Snob: only wears bracelets, milled clasps, solid end links, that sort of thing. It starts with a preference and it ossifies into some sort of commandment. There are Exotic Leather Strap snobs.
I am a History Snob. I don't mind that you like the latest Bulova or Hamilton. Classic styling with modern internals and warranty is a trade-off that is easily defended. It drives me around the bend if you don't know that it was based on a model from 60 years ago. My snobbery involves the knowledge of where brands were and how they evolved. I judge harshly the incurious. I hope that I have the manners not to say so.
That is the "secret sauce" of WC's popularity. It is not that the snobbery doesn't exist, it's that manners usually keep it at bay.
Some of the comments that seem to have disappeared from the old post that I cited above are about anti-Rolex snobbery. Things that would not be expressed about any other brand or their owners are casually dropped into comments about Rolex. If your Rolex comment reads like class envy, it probably is. Many Rolex owners lurk more than engage here because merely by putting up a picture of this or that someone will be less than kind.
Great point about snobs on both ends of the spectrum(there are even snobs in the middle).
People tend to not call-out the anti-luxury snobs, but they are just as bad as the traditional ones.
I’ll never buy a Zodiac Cipher Watch.
Turned to my wife in bed last night. “Baby, check out this watch strap!!!”
Look at it! Delugs two stitch mocha crazy horse! Life changing!
My wife’s reaction…
“That’s a watch strap all right.”
Great shot @Whitesalmon !
Great shot @Whitesalmon !
I would like to express my snobbery towards @Whitesalmon please.
The following comment is rated PG-13. (Some Material May Not Be Suitable for Children)
Here’s the comment:
“DONT DIP YOUR WATCHES IN WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!”
End of comment
Not sure. Usually snobs beleive they are generally superior, not just superior in their watches, but in the rest of life and somehow, to them, it seems inherent that they are just generally better.
However "Reverse" snobery, whilst critical on the particular topic, tends less toward the generalised disdain of the other, usyually not regarding the other as inferior in other aspects also.
So yeah. I reckon there is a difference.
Great thoughts 👍
Do you think so?
When I see it it can be wrapped up in comments suggesting that spending X amount of money on a watch somehow makes the buyer an idiot/buying into hype/flexing.
If you imagine this comment:
"I'd never buy or wear a watch like that. What a complete waste of money."
I think it would be viewed differently if it was a comment about a Casio (they'd be called a snob), than if it was about a Rolex (it would be deemed a legitimate opinion).
But maybe this is coloured my own personal views and others don't see it the same way 🤷♀
While some attribute the origin of "snob" to a contraction of latin words "sin" and "nobile" (so "without nobility"), which I find fitting and catchy, I cannot confirm its veracity through a quick research of online sources and dictionaries in my office (and I have other things to do than dedicate one week of work into the study of etymology). Still, one of the "principle" of "gentlemanship" is kindness and openness of heart, coded in some treaties about etiquette.
There is a quote from James Sherwood's "The Perfect Gentleman" that also illustrate the classic "snob" you mentioned: "It is an outcome which still resonates today: that those who serve the royal household often fall into the trap of behaving with more grandeur and self-importance that those born to the purple"(2012, p. 32). That could be linked to a desire to belong, in this case with the highest class.
Congrats to @hakki501 & @Whitesalmon! Awesome images! 🥳
Thanks, my freund! 🍻
I have to admit my own moment of snobbery yesterday. Went to the butcher for some fresh chicken and he asked for the time.
I was browsing on my phone, yet I turned my head, looked at my watch and read the time!
Man, the vindication of the moment especially when he compliments me on my 'nice watch!' Long live (this type of) snobbery! Hail! Hail!
Dugong still flares his nostrils with pride
Congratulations to @hakki501 and @Whitesalmon nice photo’s guys
@hakki501 i think I was a bit premature last week or was it some strange mystical forecasting!😂
Thanks, mate! 🍻 Actually, this week's theme is rigged. 🤣
My Dad is a bit of a watch snob.
Side note; Are we ignoring the launch of the escapementroom.com? Congratulations to @Deeperblue @Aurelian and @Porthole on the launch. I look forward to the content. Kudos all.
I see a lot of cheap watch snobs on the facebook group I’m in.
@Deeperblue I think you know already how I feel about watch snobs, from whichever side of the pendulum. I've given my thoughts in one way or another, in past editions of Bites. 😉 By the way, this edition is once again...
@JaeBust It's an honor to be selected as your weekly theme winner, together with good buddy @Whitesalmon. Thank you!
So, do I get 2 badges now on my profile @Max? 😜
just the one badge but......
@Deeperblue's profile picture deserves it's own post imo. 🤣
Thanks my friend! finally in the winners circle!
You reach those lofty heights, and it turns out … it looks a little disappointing. These guys look like they’ve just started squatting an abandoned house.
You reach those lofty heights, and it turns out … it looks a little disappointing. These guys look like they’ve just started squatting an abandoned house.
Have you been to a WatchCrunch meetup? pretty scrappy bunch! except Max of course
Very well stated @Deeperblue
Who wants to be judged...
I do think you made an excellent point when the vitriol is directed at the watch or the brand versus the person buying the watch or the brand.
I'm sure some have tagged me with "snob" because I called out a really turd-like Invicta that I purchased...thought I would give them a chance...they failed me quite sensationally...I am not making a comment about those of you are Invicta fans...more power to you...it's my personal experience with the brand that I think they are incredibly poorly made.
So, let's not jump on someone for expressing their dissatisfaction with a particular watch, brand or AD because they had a bad experience with it...that's their opinion and so be it.
I've seen Crunchers rag on Squale as boring...and then be posting pictures of their own boring watches (you know who you are)...that's a taste preference...
I think intent matters...if you are sharing your experience with the community with the intent of educating or looking for affirmation...that works for me.
If you are trying to get a rise out of others...or as the British would say "wind them up" (had to find a use for that so perfect Britishism that is a wonderful watch metaphor)...then as @Ichibunz says...we will just mute you.
Have you been to a WatchCrunch meetup? pretty scrappy bunch! except Max of course
A little more sober than the London version. We struggled to organise a group shot!
In this case, Max would be the lawyer who has been sent to negotiate with the squatters, to get them to leave without legal proceedings.
Very well stated @Deeperblue
Who wants to be judged...
I do think you made an excellent point when the vitriol is directed at the watch or the brand versus the person buying the watch or the brand.
I'm sure some have tagged me with "snob" because I called out a really turd-like Invicta that I purchased...thought I would give them a chance...they failed me quite sensationally...I am not making a comment about those of you are Invicta fans...more power to you...it's my personal experience with the brand that I think they are incredibly poorly made.
So, let's not jump on someone for expressing their dissatisfaction with a particular watch, brand or AD because they had a bad experience with it...that's their opinion and so be it.
I've seen Crunchers rag on Squale as boring...and then be posting pictures of their own boring watches (you know who you are)...that's a taste preference...
I think intent matters...if you are sharing your experience with the community with the intent of educating or looking for affirmation...that works for me.
If you are trying to get a rise out of others...or as the British would say "wind them up" (had to find a use for that so perfect Britishism that is a wonderful watch metaphor)...then as @Ichibunz says...we will just mute you.
This is a problem, and it runs deeper than just snobbery. The amount of dis-information, or just perpetuating of utter bs is maddening. I’ve seen Squale called a microbrand, an homage brand, and it’s like nobody takes 10 seconds to google Squale, and then just have a read.
Then we have the Cartier-fashion-brand brigade. These people should not be allowed to look at a watch, let alone own one. It would be nice to have reasonable discussion with some folks without having to slam one’s head against the desk every time, but hey, Seiko is everything and innovation doesn’t exist outside of Japan apparently.
The watch industry now is a very odd beast… nothing is real, honestly, nearly everything is just names masquerading as makers, owned by the same 4 umbrella companies, or operate as a zombie with a big money backer, with notable exceptions. Snobbery is pointless, because we all just put varying amounts of money into the pockets of large corporations who have lots of cash. Most of what you see are volume pieces, and of course at certain levels there is less in terms of numbers, but 99% of the time nothing is bespoke to the wearer, so what’s the real flex?
Spot on re: the snobbery.
I can't be arsed with the snobbery thing, I like what I like and that's that, it's the same with other tastes that people have, music, food, travel, holidays etc. Everyone can have their own opinion and as long as that opinion is not thrust upon someone uninvited then all is cool.
That's why I like it in here, there are people on here with major £££ invested in watches and people who are just starting out with a single digital watch, I've observed no judgement or flexing at all and that rocks! Love it.