Bites: Buying Watches You've Never Seen - Should I Stick or Twist?
Happy Tuesday fellow Crunchers!
Today I want to chat about the risks and rewards of buying watches sight unseen. I have a decision to make over the next few days and I need advice, emotional support, thoughts and prayers... whatever you've got really!
Check out this week's WC action and then meet me at the end so I can get your take on my dilemma.
Three quick bites from this week's WC, for those in a rush.
This has been a week has been a celebration of 'This or That?' questions...
"Sinn 856 or Tudor North flag? " - @tubzorz
"Cartier Tank Must or Dumont? " - @AndreCance11
"Rolex Explorer Vs Omega Seamaster " - @aTimeAffair
New members
New members who I have seen posting this week...
@JustMeArnold, @Dadneedsadrink, @JamesV, @ticktockmfers, @otoronigiri
Welcome everyone!
Hot posts
This week's topics that got the community talking.
"Ris up CW fans! " - @RyanGochuico
"Show me your watch dog" - @Kiremb
"Is there a watch better looking than the rest?" - @YourIntruder
"Do you match your watch to your outfit?" - @T1mberW0lf
"Ranking historic watch brands" - @Almeladze
"Have you purchased a microbrand watch?" - @James12345
"What is your brand?" - @whystopatone
"Watches and tattoos " - @lla2891
"Too many watches, seriously." - @Crazy_Dana
Meetups and events
14th October - Stockholm meetup - Stockholm, Sweden
20th – 22nd October - Windup Watch Fair 2023 – New York
21st October - Windup WatchCrunch meetup - New York
11th Nov - NorCal Episode 4 Wine Watches Music Meetup - Livermore, CA
2nd December - Ventura GGT/Meetup - Ventura, CA
8th December – London Christmas Meetup – London, UK
2023 Scavenger Hunt
Thankfully, for everyone's sakes, this year's Scavenger Hunt is now at an end.
It has been a truly epic ride and you can catch up on the final chapter here.
Strapalooza!
@Arambula's 3 week long inaugural Strapalooza has also reached its end this week and you can find the list of the survivors here!
Most Haunted Vintage Watch Challenge
The next game on the horizon is @casiodean's 'Most Haunted Vintage Watch Challenge', so go check it out and sign up if you're feeling brave!
SquidCrunch
There is talk of a WC squid games in the future, which I will cover here in the newsletter as and when it goes live, so watch this space!
Auctions
@Mr.Dee.Bater has another sexy watch from his collection up for charity auction! Go check this chunk of loveliness out!
The WC Travel Watches
"Bronze Ruby William Wood Firefighter Travel Watch " - @benandwatch Ben's new travel firefighter inspired watch project.
"Casio Travel Watch California Edition Week 3" - @SpecKTator The latest update from the OG WC travel watch.
"About Vintage Travel Watch" - @benandwatch's new About Vintage touring watch!
My top picks from this week's new watch releases.
Top row, left to right: Certina, G-shock, Oris, Zodiac
Bottom row: Cartier, Bell and Ross, Walder & Co., ArtyA
Updates from the YouTubers, podcasters, bloggers, brand owners and watch makers in our community.
"New launch Beaucroft seeker 37mm" - @Beaucroft_Watches
"High end alternatives to the beloved Rolex Explorer" - @celinesimon
"Phoibos eagle ray GMT review" - @HonestWatchReviews
"Ichibunz watch alert " - @BtownB9
"The latest visitors to the GasWorks Spa" - @GasWorks
"Have Hamilton smashed it outta the park?" - @MWC2020
"What's your Exit watch?" - @Max
"Tourbillons, microrotors, diamonds: a film" - @HORAGE
Longer posts from the knowledgeable and creative writers amongst the WC family.
"Watches in the Wild: Autumnal equinox Volume 47" - @Edge168n
"Watches under the microscope video Vol 8 Wise adamascus" - @nooski
"I think that the head of marketing at Seiko should be shot" - @Catskinner
"I made a big mistake AKA How Brad Pitt made me realise that I shouldn't have sold my Breitling AVI" - @Mr.Dee.Bater
"The most uninteresting interesting man in the world" - @dt1202
"Buying watches sight unseen: Stick or twist?"
The use of mother of pearl in watch designs has never really appealed to me.
Don't get me wrong, it's hard to argue with the beauty of a well done MoP dial, and when Zelos dropped their Aurora GADA/field watch earlier in the year my head was definitely turned.
Folks speak highly of Zelos, and this 38mm titanium beauty with Seiko Ginza vibes looked great in the wrist shots online, but still it wasn't enough to convert me.
The issue for me is two fold.
MoP dials generally suffer from lack of legibility to my eyes. A dial full of that level of colour and shine means indices and hands have a lot to compete against for legibility.
Secondly, a pure MoP dial is just.... a lot, you know? It draws so much of my attention that it just suffocates any other subtitles in the watch asthetics or design.
Now, after explaining why MoP isn't for me I'm going to talk about the two MoP dials that are consuming my thoughts and stopping me sleeping at present.
Both are by Formex, and both in the Essence range.
Formex has been on my wish list for a while now. People have always raved about them, and despite its higher than average price tag (for a microbrand) the general consensus has been that it's worth it's price. That high price tag however had always felt like a barrier, as shelling out that kind of cash for a watch I hadn't actually seen in person just felt too much of a risk.
This is the bane of having a smaller than average wrist, as there are so few wrist shots or opinions online regarding how watches fit the sub-6" range.
When I got the chance to actually try an Essence on in person it was initially the white dial I was most excited about.
I won't go on about the specs and abilities of this watch, since it's been done to death and I'm pretty late to the party, but I will confirm that it definitely lives up to the hype.
I tried it on and was sold.
However, I was then hit by a curve ball in the form of the the Essence Mother of Pearl dial when I got to try it on in person...
This watch is just beautiful.
The dial is subtle, but still has that something special that makes it stand out from the flat white. It truly gives Grand Seiko dial vibes and the reservations I usually have about legibility are not a problem thanks to the design and angle of the indices. Add to this the fact that it works equally well on one of the excellent Formex bracelets or their wonderful leather straps.
Ok... so that's the decision made then?
Urgghhhh.... sadly not.
I really was ready to commit to this gorgeous watch that had converted me to the shiny iridescent dark-side of MoP. I took myself off to the Formex website... found the Essence page... scrolled down through the dial options to find the MoP.... and then I see.... 'Mother of Sky' dial....??
Now I'm thinking.... well, this has the potential to be a game changer.
From the Formex website:
"The Mother-of-Sky dial exudes a sense of heavenly beauty. It is made from a single piece of the inner layer of a Pinctada maxima shell. To achieve the sky blue color of the dial, a thin layer of lacquer is applied to the bottom of the dial base. On the surface, high-precision tooling is required to achieve the Essence’s signature horizontal lines with their perfectly crisp angles."
Well ****....
I'm right back to square one. Really loving the look of a watch online, but stuck on the thought of paying that kinda price for a piece I've never seen in the metal. Would I like the two tone in person? Would the blue be 'too much'??
So... I hatch a plan...
Raphael, the head dude at Formex is a phenomenally nice guy. I email him.
The rough gist of the conversation:
Me: "Dude! I loved your MoP Essence but the Mother of Sky looks absolutely killer too! If I come see you at your next watch fair do you think you could bring me one to look at??"
Him:"I would absolutely love to! They are totally lush watches! Sadly, we get so few in that they always sell out instantly, so there's rarely one for me to show off at the fairs! If you want one, get yourself on the preorder and I'll 100% try my best to get it for the next fair and give it to you in person!"
My emotions:
I would get to pick my watch up from the head guy! Exciting!
And also...
... because I won't get to see it first to be sure I like it. I'd just have to take a punt.
So, there we are.
If I want one I gotta commit and get a preorder in.
So what do I do?
Play it safe and stick with the standard Mother of Pearl which I know is bloody lovely.... or do I twist... put my money down on the Mother of Sky, the wild card with very little out there in terms of wrist pics or videos to guide my choice, but which could potentially blow me away?
WWYD?
Are you all for playing it safe and tend to shy away from buying blind online?
Or are you all for taking the risk and dropping big bucks on a watch you've never seen?
Thank you all for being my community agony aunt.
Kaysia.
Part-time 'writter' @ The Escapement Room, the NSFW watch enthusiasts blog. www.theescapementroom.com/
More from DeeperBlue
Thanks for featuring my review 👍
Thank you for the triple “shout out” 👍🏼🔥 I’ll read about your dilemma and comment later on
I say, get the Mother of Sky because obviously it's the one that you really want. Otherwise you would have already bought the MOP and be done with it.
The worst that can happen if you buy the Mother of Sky is realizing belatedly that you made a terrible mistake that will ruin your life forever.
Thanks for the shout on my SquidCrunchGame! Going to try my best to make sure it runs smoothly. Even then after experiencing your scavenger hunt I know I will have to stay frosty to adapt. This community is extremely capable 😅
Be prepared…
I’ve only bought one watch in person. The rest of my 20ish were bought online. I have a 7.5” wrist so I don’t have to worry about fit to much. I will say I bought a Dan Henry early on in my collecting days and quickly sold it because it looked tiny on my wrist. I say get the Sky. I doubt you will be disappointed
Thank you again for another shout out. I do appreciate it and thank you for you hard work the last month. I had fun while I lasted.
I can't really give you a good opinion on the dial because I've never seen them either. What I can say is I'd go with my gut instead of my heart. My heart has a way of leading me leading my astray. My gut is usually right on. Hope this helps.
Thanks again,
Thanks for the shout on my SquidCrunchGame! Going to try my best to make sure it runs smoothly. Even then after experiencing your scavenger hunt I know I will have to stay frosty to adapt. This community is extremely capable 😅
Be prepared…
What’s all this about?
This is my niece's Orient. Can I distract you a bit and make it even harder to decide? Hehe..
I’m a not risk taker when it comes to watches. There are a ton of watches I see online that I think are amazing, but when I finally try it on, it doesn’t do it for me. Before spending any amount, I always have to try it on. I remember looking to pick up a Casio, the lady didn’t allow me to try it on, so I didn’t purchase the watch.
Trying it on the wrist is a must for me.
Mother Of Sky just looks too good.
As cat skinner said, you clearly want the MOS.
Plus, worst case scenario, this one's harder to secure than the MOP, so likely someone would be willing to do a trade in your favor + a bit of cash?
I also don't love buying watches unseen, but sometimes we have no choice. I've taken risks and not been happy with the outcome - I'm looking at your kurono Tokyo and snoopy speedy (1st gen)!
https://zeloswatches.com/products/swordfish-field-38mm-ss-mop-launch-special
The new Zelos Swordfish 38mm MOP is dropping this week with a low entry price of $329USD, $299 for other variants, so it might be inexpensive enough to just take a flyer on it.
In terms of the Essence, treat yourself Kaysia, you deserve it after the amazing work you put in over the last couple of months for this community. You can always get both dials and I’m sure you can either return one or sell the one you like less. Too bad the dial doesn’t come in Red 🤣😂😭
Buying sight unseen: I buy vintage and I like a bargain. That means always online and sight unseen. You can tell a lot from decent photos and measurements. Provided you like researching the watch, it's movement, what it looks like unpolished etc
Brick and mortar stores usually have huge overheards (rent, energy bills) which they understandably have to cover in the price.
Personally, I'd go for a really trustworthy online only store with a good returns policy if I were a newbie.
Every time I've had a chance to try on a watch in the metal, my feelings have changed. Every time. It's not that I suddenly decide it's bad; no, but I do change my impressions about it. And didn't that happen to you already? There's a subtle shift in how you feel that can't quite be explained. But suddenly, I don't want the watch anymore.
I'd go for the MOP dial since you already know you love it. I find it's the simple color dials that last the test of time.
Couple things, Windup is only a few weeks away, so I say it is worth the wait to get the Sky version. If they do not have it, you can then present yourself with the dilemma, get the white one or hold out for the sky version. I mean, the WC family did name then the best micro brand this year, maybe just maybe Raphael holds one for you at NYC. That said, I am all for blind buying, but in this case, you have at least tried on the model, so it is trusting the folks at Formex for this, which after two, I personally would.
Note, just received noticed today about Zelos’s upcoming drop in a few days. Still none for me given the movements, but there will be a bunch dropping.
I think maybe 90% of watches I've bought online unseen, including my Grail, my Seamaster 300.
A few I've not got on with , if over £500 I sell them, if under I gift them to friends.
Im shite with money 🤣
The riskiest thing for me when buying online is the size fit. As you’ve got that covered I’d say go for the one that’s really grabbed you. Also as that’s harder to get hold off I think you’ll regret that more. As someone else said a rare watch can always be sold and you can get the MoP later.
I think you speak a lot of sense.
I didn't find a single MoS on eBay or Chrono, so that tells me that people aren't hating and flipping them often, and also that I'd be ok selling it if I needed to 🤷♀
Over thinking costs many people lifes enjoyments. Put the order in. The head honcho will be delivering it in person. When you get it from him try it on. If it doesn't work for you then swap it to him for the other one. I'm sure you won't be disappointed. He told you that it's a hot seller so I don't think that he will mind either. If all else fails flip it yourself then get the other one.
I think this is exactly the advice I will take. Thank you 🍻
I've bought on ebay from £10-£1800.
You can pick up some really nice vintage watches for under £100. I found lots of mine by searching for "Incabloc" in the title and description. Incabloc is a shock protection technology and was marketed on the dial in the 50s-70s as a mark of a quality Swiss watch.
If you can stretch your budget to £200 you can pick up a solid gold dress watch with patience. Again, search for incabloc and look for a gold coloured case back in the photos. Then ask for photos of the hallmarks on the inside of the gold caseback to seal the deal that it's solid gold.
I find the buyer protection and return policy is very good if you receive something other than described in the listing.
I also always factor in the price of a service for anything mechanical off ebay if I plan to keep it in the collection long term - that's another £125-250.
Here's a £20 eBay find.
That sounds like solid advice, thank you!
Here is one of my £20 finds...
MOS all the way! It's the one you fancy.
If it really is that hot of a commodity you should be able to switch it out for something else on the spot no? So, once you see it in person, even after having paid the deposit if you change your mind he may still be willing to let you have the white MOP instead. He should be able to offload the extra MOS easily in the worst of cases for both of you is all I'm saying.
Pay the deposit, make a game-day call. That's what I would try and negotiate.
Okay... if we're thinking he may swap on the day if it all goes Pete Tong then that makes me feel more positive. 🍻
I'm definitely leaning MoS now.
The risk in buying a Seiko without seeing it would be a non starter for me given their many alignment issues. Their quality has to be seen to trust. Like the Orient minute track screwup.
The only Seikos' I'd buy blind are @GasWorks refurbs 👌
Absolutely go for the Mother of Sky blue one, it is stunning and you will love it. Ok I will love it because I want one and my decision would be easy but you don't care about what I want. This is your gig! My position is unchanged, go for it!
If I go MoS I will take a million pictures for all to enjoy 🥳
A mother-of-pearl dial is one of those things that typically look better in real life than pictures. I love the look of the Mother of Sky! Plus, your name is DeeperBLUE and you last lamented that you always lean towards white dials. Blue basically goes with everything (especially if you're an avid denim wearer) so it's not too risky.
I think if I don't get the MoS I'm always going to be thinking "What if...?"
Blue gradients are very much the thing right now, and if that looks even a bit like the photos, it’s a winner. Plus the name is just better.
It is a cool ass name.
Here's a thought...
Pre-order the watch...pick it up in person...
If it is not what you expected...ask to trade for the regular MOP dial...
If the MOS watch is that hot, then it should not be a problem from Formex side since they should be able to sell your pre-order immediately, and you end up with the better choice of the two.
QED
Damn.... I kinda thought you'd be like "Hey! I love my MoS dial! Do it!"
You are 100% correct though.
I think this is exactly the advice I will take. Thank you 🍻
You're welcome ☺ We all can't wait to see it.
The only Seikos' I'd buy blind are @GasWorks refurbs 👌
The cheque's in the post 😉
Damn.... I kinda thought you'd be like "Hey! I love my MoS dial! Do it!"
You are 100% correct though.
Sorry…Formex is one the brands absent from my portfolio. Never connected with the brand or the look.
I’m not a big fan of straight or wavy lines on my dials. So no Nautilus, no Seamasters with wavy lines, no Formex, etc
With my wife and daughter, my typical answer would be “Why choose?”…but then again I’m Mr. Irresponsible 😉
I'd go blue MOP and never look back! - but do agree with @hakki501 that their are plenty of pearls in the sea and you may find some gorgeous JDM options in smaller sizes and designs that work great with sub 6. Still would be buying sight unseen, but likely you are doing that anyways!
I'm in a bit of the same boat as you on small wrist issues. I'm a 6 or just under and watch reviews and review videos are mostly useless as they never ever have wrists like us.
My favored GS/Seiko watches have an amazing ability to fit even very large watches (SNR043 and Seiko Turtle are both 45mm diameter!!) snug and comfy on my tiny wrists.
So many smaller cased watches overhang the edge of my wrists - and that is a non starter for me. Won't buy a watch if I think it's possible it's got that issue and I haven't tried on.
I'd go blue MOP and never look back! - but do agree with @hakki501 that their are plenty of pearls in the sea and you may find some gorgeous JDM options in smaller sizes and designs that work great with sub 6. Still would be buying sight unseen, but likely you are doing that anyways!
I'm in a bit of the same boat as you on small wrist issues. I'm a 6 or just under and watch reviews and review videos are mostly useless as they never ever have wrists like us.
My favored GS/Seiko watches have an amazing ability to fit even very large watches (SNR043 and Seiko Turtle are both 45mm diameter!!) snug and comfy on my tiny wrists.
So many smaller cased watches overhang the edge of my wrists - and that is a non starter for me. Won't buy a watch if I think it's possible it's got that issue and I haven't tried on.
Totally agree with, and second the motion of @Fieldwalker 💯