Bites: Confession time - I am a petty and small-minded individual.
Happy Tuesday watch-fam!
Time to get vulnerable this week as I open up about the petty and miserly side of my watch collecting life.
I had already been taking a long hard look at myself this past week after a recent attempt at an eBay purchase, but after seeing a video posted by @Justingalore I had to take myself outside and question some of my life choices.
Do some of you feel the same as me? Or are the rest of you actually well adjusted individuals?
Anyway, let's have a look at some of the cool stuff from WC this last week, then you are welcome to shake your heads in disappointment at my shortcomings....
Three quick bites from WC this week for those in a rush…
I can’t not mention the fun that was had at Windup last week! Check out the photo thread here.
Check out @MrPsionic’s discussion about those times we can’t quite connect with a watch: “Trying to bond with a watch”.
@ichibunz askes the important question “Where are all the Storm Trooper watches?”
New members:
New members who I’ve seen posting this week… @WatchYouNeed, @omegaman75, @Pisty59, @Gishy007, @mart1n, @DocFrenchie, @enricoitaly, @solidyetti, @Allie123, @zorroCH86
Welcome everyone!
Hot Posts:
This weeks topics that got the community talking…
“Paying for a watch” – @Augustus
“Apocalyptic one watch” – @ThomasD
“One watch and one car” - @watchfinder.general
“One watch you regret not getting” – @vanished7
Meetups and Events:
5th May - Cruise ship Meetup - New Jersey to UK
14th – 16th July - Windup Watch Fair 2023 - Chicago
20th – 22nd October - Windup Watch Fair 2023 – New York
Let me know if you hear of any other meetups and I’ll add them to our weekly calander.
Big thanks to @flatterycamp for setting last weeks photography theme of “On the move”. His winner this week was @Sinnguy with this beauty….
Come see the runners up and find out the chosen theme for this weeks photos here, which has been kindly set by this weeks guest judge @WatchBee.
Here are my favourite watch releases from the past week that I think deserve a little look…
Top row, left to right:
Louis Erard x Konstantin Chaykin, Seven Friday, ID Geneve
Second row:
Seiko Presage, Junghans, Nodus, Zelos
Longer posts from the knowledgeable and creative writers amongst the WC family….
@Edge168n has been busy this week and given us three new instalments in his Watches in the Wild series:
“Volume 32: A more civilized experience”
“Volums 33: Part 1 – Heaven for microbrands, A windup Watch Fair emergency edition”
“Volums 33: Part 2 – Heaven for microbrands, A windup Watch Fair emergency edition”
@ckim4watches has been soaking up some high horology with fellow crunchers: “South coast plaza mini-crunch meetup and high horology tour”
@Velomax continues his series looking at lesser known watch makers and brands. “Why don’t we talk me about… Ferdinand Berthoud?”
"I am a petty and small-minded hypocrite."
Ok, so pretty much the first rule of Watch Club is "Buy what you love."
30mm? Fashion watch? Pin-pallet? Hublot?
If you love it, then you do you and pay no heed to others who will throw shade on your choices and taste.
But what if you're throwing your own shade?
What if your own bad attitude is putting you off watches that you would actually really enjoy?
I think that's what’s happening to me because of my irrational prejudices.
Irrational prejudice #1: Dislike by association
I'm talking about when celebrity and influencer endorsements have the opposite effect.
I remember someone on WC once saying they would never buy a Tudor because they couldn't stand David Beckham, and many times I've seen others say that they wouldn't touch Rolex because of the Instagram flexers, and I'm definitely not immune to this feeling. If I saw someone in the media I deeply disliked wearing a certain watch, then I can't say that wouldn't put me off.
But isn't this hypocritical of me? We watch folks are always talking about not being positively influenced into watch purchases, so why should I let the opposite bother me?
If disliked-celebrity-X likes the same watch I do, why should that matter or impact my watch buying??
It shouldn't, but it does.
Irrational prejudice #2: The buying process
Now, I know a lot of people may presume I'm going to talk about supposed 'Waiting lists' and the dance we need to do with certain ADs.
I can completely understand why some people hate those games so much that they would rather do without the watch. Certainly, if getting the watch I'm after meant buying 3 others I didn't even want, then no, I'm not up for that.
But the buying process I'm talking about is altogether more petty.
I'm talking about eBay.
Nothing will put me off an eBay purchase as quickly as someone not playing the 'Make an Offer' game.
In my mind if a Seller puts in the option of 'Make an Offer' in addition to the Buy it Now, it means they are happy to partake in some sensible bartering.
But if I make an offer of 5% off their asking price and it gets rejected, that's it. The petty side of me takes over, and even if it's only a difference of a couple of quid/dollars, I'm still out.
Is this ridiculous? Yes.
Can the seller ultimately choose exactly what they want to sell it for and reject any offers they wish? Absolutely.
But I can't help myself. If you aren't going to honour the Make an Offer button, don't use it.
Irrational prejudice #3: Popularity
I realised how massively hypocritical my prejudice of 'the popular watch' is after I watched a recent video posted by @Justingalore.
In it, Jack Forster is interviewing a lady watch collector who at one point mentioned her biggest watch purchase regret.
I can't remember the exact model, but it was some incredibly expensive Cartier Ballon Bleu in rose gold with diamonds. She said she loved the watch until she met up with a friend who had the steel Ballon Bleu and who said to her "Oh look! We have the same watch!" The lady said that she knew it made her sound like a snob (I definitely thought it did) but that she was put off the watch from then on because she didn't want a watch that everyone could be wearing.
When I heard this my first reaction was that she wasn't a real enthusiast and was just there to flex her cash.... but then I realised.... I'm the same!
I too don't want what everyone else has.
If a watch is hugely popular it actually tends to put me off and I'd much rather go for something under the radar and unique.
Case in point... the Speedmaster.
I truly think it is a beautiful watch. Regardless of the space connection I think the proportions and design elements just make it something very special. I envy Speedy owners.
But it sometimes feels like everyone has one. Obviously, they don't, but that's how it can feel in the distorted parallel watch-universe.
And because they are everywhere in the online community it somehow takes the shine off them for me.
It's utterly ridiculous.
So, am I alone?
Can I find any solidarity out there?
Do others share my irrational thinking, or do you have your own ridiculous reasons for not buying watches?
I hope this is a safe place to share.
Take care everyone!
Kaysia.
Banner photo: Beautiful photograph from @Biel_Bienne of the Speedy I have a love/hate relationship with.
EDIT: Please go read @rowiphi 's wonderful and thoughtful post response to this newsletter here: https://www.watchcrunch.com/rowiphi/posts/we-have-to-do-the-work-33955
Part-time 'writter' @ The Escapement Room, the NSFW watch enthusiasts blog. www.theescapementroom.com/
More from DeeperBlue
Thanks for the @
I am somewhat like the lady in the video in terms of wanting to be different. Who doesn't want to be? Its an aspect of my character that keeps me away from vanilla jobs (even good ones) and vanilla watches (even good ones - specifically Rolex.) - I tend to go on a somewhat less well trodden path.
Where I would differ is. Lets say I had a moonwatch. If I saw someone with less spending power in a moonswatch - and they said "look we have the same watch" - if they were enthused and in to it - I'd be delighted for them and would enjoy a conversation about our mutual watches - I don't think I'd be irritated for a moment..
Nope you’re not alone! I felt the same way about the Speedy at first but owning one now and wearing it more and more I see why everyone and I myself love it now too!! Yeah! And the fact @HotWatchChick69 got the green Gmt makes me jealous and want one too… then again I’m easily influenced 😖😂🫨…plus Brian is a celebrity in my head! So don’t ruin it … I always picture @HotWatchChick69 as this…
But I know she/he is more like this…
Cute little puppy ahhh … so cuuuute!!!
Ok I just wanted to post that cute puppy pic for my puppies next haircut…
😁
I’m definitely not well adjusted. I just posted about reading in my beloved Speedy for an Explorer. The feedback from fellow Crunchers on my poll was 68/32% in favor of keeping the Speedy. Now that I’ve solved that problem, I’m already adjusting my search criteria on Chrono24 and eBay to buy a used BB58 Blue… what is wrong with me! HA!
https://www.watchcrunch.com/vmiyanks04/posts/advice-requested-33587
I’m definitely not well adjusted. I just posted about reading in my beloved Speedy for an Explorer. The feedback from fellow Crunchers on my poll was 68/32% in favor of keeping the Speedy. Now that I’ve solved that problem, I’m already adjusting my search criteria on Chrono24 and eBay to buy a used BB58 Blue… what is wrong with me! HA!
https://www.watchcrunch.com/vmiyanks04/posts/advice-requested-33587
Oh man meeeee tooo!! What’s wrong with me!! I want a blue BB58 as well argh!! Is there a pill a can take so I won’t be obsessed about watche s😵😵💫
Thanks for the @
I am somewhat like the lady in the video in terms of wanting to be different. Who doesn't want to be? Its an aspect of my character that keeps me away from vanilla jobs (even good ones) and vanilla watches (even good ones - specifically Rolex.) - I tend to go on a somewhat less well trodden path.
Where I would differ is. Lets say I had a moonwatch. If I saw someone with less spending power in a moonswatch - and they said "look we have the same watch" - if they were enthused and in to it - I'd be delighted for them and would enjoy a conversation about our mutual watches - I don't think I'd be irritated for a moment..
Yes, I think that is maybe the difference.
I enjoy having something different, but it's so lovely to meet a fellow watch enthusiast in my circles there is no way I would feel upset if someone was wearing the same watch.
It would be much more...
I agreed with your comments about the interview feeling a bit uncomfortable.
It's fine to have differing opinions... that makes life interesting... but she just seemed to be telling the guy he was just plain wrong all the time, rather than being more open to his opinions on Hublot being more well respected than she thought etc.
I still don't think she was really buying watches for herself. She gave off 'Not like other girls' vibes to me.
I love the thought that went into this. I can relate.
What came first: the love of the old and forgotten or the desire to stand out? One of the first things that most people can understand when looking at vintage watches is how rare they are. Each model, each year, has survived against the odds. Most watches ever made reside now in landfills. We have very few from 50 years ago, fewer still from 75. Rare does not equate to valuable. A vintage watch can be your way of owning something unusual and rare with a price that one can afford.
With kids in school and two houses with mortgages I can not afford ten watches of $7,500.00 or more. I have some leeway, but not that much. If I were to buy the most highly praised watches on this site and others I would own maybe five watches. One would be a G-Shock, perhaps a Kamasu or Bambino. I might reach for a BB58. And I would be bored.
I like that I can stand in my own corner with very few others. I can complain about service costs and delays, magnetism, parts. If you were to really try, it would be difficult to replicate most of my collection. The best pieces would be the easiest to find. Neither a Seamaster DeVille or a Zodiac Hermetic is a rara avis, but this is:
(Now if I could just get the thing to work. It tells future time, runs fast.)
I have never wanted to own the same watches as everyone else. This is the ego driving the collection. No one wears the same gown on the red carpet. Same impulse.
I have many issues with eBay. The only thing that I am watching now is a vintage red smoking jacket. I don't smoke. I will be damned if I don't show up to one of these meet-ups with a wrist full of old watches wearing a red smoking jacket. How's that for irrationality?
Nope you’re not alone! I felt the same way about the Speedy at first but owning one now and wearing it more and more I see why everyone and I myself love it now too!! Yeah! And the fact @HotWatchChick69 got the green Gmt makes me jealous and want one too… then again I’m easily influenced 😖😂🫨…plus Brian is a celebrity in my head! So don’t ruin it … I always picture @HotWatchChick69 as this…
But I know she/he is more like this…
Cute little puppy ahhh … so cuuuute!!!
Ok I just wanted to post that cute puppy pic for my puppies next haircut…
😁
Need a puppy pic after the hair cut!
And I think my dilemma with the Speedy could be solved by this gold and green beauty...
Honestly though, I can't hate on the speedy at all. The reduced especially is just...🤤
Re: your Speedy comment, you’re right about it being everywhere in the online watch community. However, IRL I never see it, and I’m in the Air Force! I’ve only run into 2 other people in my entire 19-year career that have one and only 1 actually wore it all the time like me. And we were only in the same place at the same time once! So I think you should go for it and wear it IRL, for you!
Re: the eBay thing, I not above a bit of schadenfreude and I will keep watching those listings and hoping it doesn't sell. I could then make an offer lower than my first, but like you, I'm petty and don't want to buy from that seller.
Re: the "I don't want what everyone else has" thing, I too am guilty of that to a degree. I think we all are. We all want to have unique things but custom anything is sooooo expensive for most of us. I think the uniqueness we are looking for can be added by ourselves, bit by bit instead of all at once. I want to make a custom watch storage solution and I want it to be so unique, I'm reluctant to share even the idea for it.
And her "mistake" watch? It was not a mistake. She loved the watch until her delusional bubble of uniqueness was burst. That's not a mistake. Her whole answer to the question from the premise all the way through reeks of elitism.
Another excellent Bites. Association is hard to ignore and we’d be lying if we said we didn’t do it. “I’ll never wear a Rolex/Patek etc because…” then one tries one and gets it. “I’ll never drive a BMW/Porsche etc…” then one drives it and understands the hype. Separating association and objectivity isn’t easy.
With watches, as I’ve aged, I’ve realized no one cares outside of other enthusiasts and at this point I’m not out to impress anyone. If I like it I buy. If some clown shoe happens to own the same thing, so be it. I don’t have to personally associate myself with who that person is.
I’m definitely not well adjusted. I just posted about reading in my beloved Speedy for an Explorer. The feedback from fellow Crunchers on my poll was 68/32% in favor of keeping the Speedy. Now that I’ve solved that problem, I’m already adjusting my search criteria on Chrono24 and eBay to buy a used BB58 Blue… what is wrong with me! HA!
https://www.watchcrunch.com/vmiyanks04/posts/advice-requested-33587
We feel your pain.
There is no saving us.
We are lost to this illness and all we can do is hope to be examples to others as to why watch collecting is a terrible hobby.
Sure, I enjoy wearing something different. But that is not the reason that I bought them. I has been cause I liked them. Unique, or rarer, watches can have a pretty good reason for being so. They can be quite ugly and no one wants them, or vanted them at the time if vintage.
I have no problem buying watches that are common. The Speedie is a great example of that. I was late to that party. It was not until the new model with the updated bracelet it felt at home. It is a beautiful watch with perfect design. Even if it considered common I think I spotted one twice on someones wrist.
Nope you’re not alone! I felt the same way about the Speedy at first but owning one now and wearing it more and more I see why everyone and I myself love it now too!! Yeah! And the fact @HotWatchChick69 got the green Gmt makes me jealous and want one too… then again I’m easily influenced 😖😂🫨…plus Brian is a celebrity in my head! So don’t ruin it … I always picture @HotWatchChick69 as this…
But I know she/he is more like this…
Cute little puppy ahhh … so cuuuute!!!
Ok I just wanted to post that cute puppy pic for my puppies next haircut…
😁
Ha! Planning a WC meetup in San Diego now. You can come meet my puppies in person - and that’s not even a euphemism!
Also, I think we may have a special guest coming too. A certain someone who founded a certain watch enthusiast site and makes YT videos!
In respect to point 2, I want to give you a sellers perspective. I sell things online to raise funds for a charity. I put an asking price well under a used retail price and I allow bidding from a good percentage below that. I'll give an example. X watch has a used retail value of €300. I list it online for €150 with bidding from €100. I can guarantee that people will always ask "what is the least you will accept"?, or offer €75. It is not only frustrating that people are so cheap, it is also extremely disheartening.
Ha! Planning a WC meetup in San Diego now. You can come meet my puppies in person - and that’s not even a euphemism!
Also, I think we may have a special guest coming too. A certain someone who founded a certain watch enthusiast site and makes YT videos!
Ohhh when? Maybe I can persuade the wife to visit San Diego again!!
Ohh!! I’m picturing you doing this…
The WC call!!
I'd say everyone, no exceptions, are more or less susceptible to the aforementioned prejudices. Me ofc included. The most dreadful discovery I made so far about myself in my (very short) watch collecting life is that I am surprised (read: annoyed) that no one even notices this gorgeous time piece I have on my wrist nowadays. C'mon, can't you see this is a handmade brilliant piece of German engineering, with an in-house produced sunray burst blue dial??! How can you NOT see the beautiful finishing, the Louisiana alligator strap and the delicate moon phase indicator? I know of course no one pays attention to all of this, excepting a very small group that populates forums like this. Until not very long ago, you could have put a guy in front of me with an Aquanaut on his right wrist and a A Lange tourbillon on his left and I probably would not have noticed. Still, I do expect people to notice MY beautiful new watch. It's pathetic :-)
Yeah, it's depressing that no one notices.
To be honest, this absolutely proves that women are the smarter sex.
We know exactly the type of watches to wear to get noticed...
You go ahead and wear one of those and I bet people comment. 😆
Maybe I'm strange, but I'm almost never bargaining on a marketplaces. Somehow I treat them just as any internet shop. And while selling my stuff online I will usually put the price I wanna get, or a bit higher (in case somebody wants to throw a counteroffer at me in a first message) and I won't participate in those trading games. Most of the tame is just take it or leave it.
And here's the funny part, I've met a couple of buyers who told me that if I don't want to negotiate I should not place a listing but rather take my stuff to the shop and put it on consignment. I thought that them were just crazy and rude, but judging from a couple of comments I might assume that people actually expecting the negotiation while buying stuff on marketplace.
Regarding the lady in collection video. Man, I'm not anti-wealth 'eat-the-rich' kinda dude at all. I don't care about your bank account and lifestyle if you're not acting like a jerk. But I can't stand snobbery and elitism. I personally know a guy who will not touch a synthesiser cheaper than 2k$, because "it's not made for me" and because "I want a real thing, not a useless toy". This type of behaviour really puts me off people. I mean I can understand why you could be envy of somebody buying a better watch than you, but being mad that your friend has a damn steel version of your rose gold watch is a complete and utter arthouse.
Some people said that she knows what she wants, but I think she's just acting childish.
Buy what you like is a nice concept, but I think it only starts working after you made your fair share of mistakes, got under the influence and escape the influence, try a lot of different thing and through trial and error got to know yourself and what tickles your fancy. It took me 10+ years to figure out which guitars I like, what sound I personally looking for, which brands I like and which I don't, what features are important to me, etc. I think it really comes with experience. For example, I like vintage-inspired tool watches, but just because I generally drawn to the older things - like vinyl, analog technology, used vintage clothing and obviously watches. When I was younger and was studying computer science I was obsessed with technology and all things modern, but after working on a software engineering field for a 12 years I just got tired of those things. Maybe in a 10 years I will be into complicated dress watches. Or some obscure (it's the only word I can think of there) RM-like stuff (middle age crisis is not a joke). I'm also very easily deinfluenced, so I don't think that I'm buying only what I like at the moment.
Also, can we zoom in a little bit and take a look on a whole context of wearing a watch? I mean, when we're talking watches we're operating on a level of wrist shots. And all the context of those photos is defined by hairiness, wrist size and a glimpse of a shirt or jacket. But IRL we have the whole outfit, the whole person and so the looks of a watch could be very different. And you may not like a wrist shots, but absolutely like the watch IRL and vice-versa. And in a context of different people wearing the watch the watch itself could be perceived different.
This. This is what I find fascinating.
How our perception of a watch can be changed by the wearer, be it in movies, sports, history, brand ambassadors or people we know irl.
I don't know enough psychology to explain it, but it's almost as though we feel a bit of that persons 'energy' is in that watch and will rub off on us.
Thank you for another thought-provoking Bites! Will you include this in next week's list of longer or much-discussed posts? 😀
I ignore make a bid buttons and most influencers, though I do value detailed reviews. I also value unusual / rare pieces, especially ones without 1%er prices. Finally, I'd donate a cup of coffee or several to @Aurelian 's favorite charity to see a pic of him sporting one (or more) of his great vintage pieces in a red smokering jacket. (I almost fell off the chair reading that comment 😂)
It always feels like a win if it's a topic that gets people thinking and talking.🥳
I too am looking forward to that jacket.
Maybe we all need one.
... I'm off to have a look on eBay 😁
You’re definitely not alone! Although not directly tied to watches, my rollercoaster experience shares a lot of similarities to what you described. It’s tied to shoes (and I’ll keep it short)
Aside from watches, and cars, and camera gear, I also love shoes 😄 when the Adidas/Yeezy craze hit years ago I didn’t get it. It put me off initially. Then I took a closer look and quite liked some of the colors offered. So I tried a pair on and they were amazingly comfortable! So I bought a pair, and then learned of their connection to Kanye West. I didn’t care either way, but when I wore them they got approving nods because they had “street cred.” I still didn’t care. I bought another pair in a different color, more nods ensued. Now I find out that Kanye West said some not great things, Adidas cut their ties with him, they’re still making the shoes, but now there’s controversy surrounding the them. I STILL DON’T CARE. Although my wife did ask me “do you want to sell the shoes now that they’re…weird?” 😄
The point is, like you mentioned, we shouldn’t let things that could bring us joy be tainted by external factors that have nothing to do with us. Life is too short, enjoy the things that put a smile on your face if you can, for as long as you can, with the people that you love 🤗
Oh man.... That should be the WC moto! ❤
I am seriously considering one of these....
If I wasn't already overrun with watches that seem to just breed like Tribbles, I'd be getting one of these in the next AE sale I think.
For the money Pagani can't be beat. the quality is on par with most at a fraction of the price with far more unique designs to choose from. Plus the pagani chronographs feature Seiko V64 mecaquartz movements Win Win Win!
I say go for it. There's quite a few kits to start your first build or if non of the kits are quite what you want I'm happy to help source the parts you like.
When I'm ready, I'll come find you!
Oh man.... That should be the WC moto! ❤
Haha, you're too kind! But it's true! 😀
So many great responses here!
I just bought a watch yesterday and whilst deciding I did the unthinkable...I asked someone else what they thought! As much as I thought I knew what I wanted, how other people reacted to the same choices I was faced with definitely influenced me. I was already on the verge of switching choices, but for reasons unknown I just longed for some external confirmation. The truth is I would've probably been told "excellent choice" no matter what I picked haha.
Also trying to sell more affordable watches of mine at the same time, I appreciate how tough it can be being both a buyer and seller. It's like dating apps, the default attitude is mistrust and getting real honesty is the true hard sell. Transactional relationships vs having a trusted dealer.
On the popularity side I also find it funny how there's a threshold for when it's awesome vs off-putting. Watches like the PRX, BB, Speedy are all sometimes viewed as "basic b" watches even though they all are popular for good reasons. But when we see someone wearing a digital Casio everyone is like "you know what's up". Just look at the likes on WRUW posts. I don't get it honestly, but at the same time, it makes sense that humans make no sense 😕
Hope you get some better luck on eBay! That's definitely the place to look for more unique pieces in any case.
Oh my god! I never realised it before, but you're spot on with that!
I wonder if it's a judgementle perception that people with the luxury 'Basic-B' watches have just thrown a load of cash in and bought the top 3 watches recommended by Teddy so they can have a socially acceptable money flex.
Whereas if you show off your Casio you're obviously not doing it as a show of wealth?
I don't know, but it's interesting to think about.
Isn't the human mind bloody fascinating!
For the money Pagani can't be beat. the quality is on par with most at a fraction of the price with far more unique designs to choose from. Plus the pagani chronographs feature Seiko V64 mecaquartz movements Win Win Win!
I have yet to try a mecaquartz, but when I do get one I may never go back to automatic!
I am seriously considering one of these....
If I wasn't already overrun with watches that seem to just breed like Tribbles, I'd be getting one of these in the next AE sale I think.
I've avoided Pagani, because I thought it was too "homage-y". How's the quality? I know Jody from JOMW seems to like it.
I've avoided Pagani, because I thought it was too "homage-y". How's the quality? I know Jody from JOMW seems to like it.
I have a couple Pagani's and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. This one has been put through the paces this winter. It's been snowmobiling, skiing, climbing, target shooting and makes a mean Egg timer!
It took him a few days to ship it, but he wasn't very pleased🙄
To be honest the majority of the blame for misuse of the Make an Offer option lays on Ebay's shoulders. When you create a listing, Ebay encourages you to offer the Make an Offer option as way to increase sales. So a lot of sellers that are new to ebay don't know any better. But there's some Ebay old salts that seem to enjoy being Annoying and over controlling.
Like the guy who has an antique store but prices everything so high nobody ever buys anything. Just a way to talk with people about his stuff🙄
I have a couple Pagani's and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. This one has been put through the paces this winter. It's been snowmobiling, skiing, climbing, target shooting and makes a mean Egg timer!
I like the dial on this one. I could actually use a chronograph at work. Hmm.
I like the dial on this one. I could actually use a chronograph at work. Hmm.
take a look at their site, I've always bought them through AliExpress. They always have the best price. and I've never had a problem
take a look at their site, I've always bought them through AliExpress. They always have the best price. and I've never had a problem
I'll do just that. Thanks. Like San Martin, they offer some with just their logo, which I like because it's not as busy.