What is vintage?

As I continue my journey with "vintage" watches,  two things are clear.  First, there are many Crunchers with great knowledge and experience that they are thankfully willing to share. Second, there are many different views on what qualifies as "vintage."

What is "vintage?"

Merriam-Webster offers 2 definitions that apply to watches:

vintage (adjective)

2: of old, recognized, and enduring interest, importance, or quality : CLASSIC

3a: dating from the past : OLD

3b: OUTMODED, OLD-FASHIONED

We can all agree, presumably, that the function of telling time is neither outmoded nor old-fashioned, thus we can rule out 3b. :)

The Cambridge Dictionary also offers 2 definitions:

produced in the past, and typical of the period in which it was made

used to describe clothing, jewellery, etc. that is not new, especially when it is a good example of a style from the past

None of these dictionary definitions specify what qualifies as "old" or "not new."

Is it just about age? 

Wise watch sage @OscarKlosoff stated that "vintage is merely a designator of age, although I would definitely exclude anything that is currently produced in identical form."  But what age qualifies as vintage?  He goes on to say, "Tell a teenager that something more than twice their age is not old or special. It's all relative."

Young Internet sage, ChatGPT (see comments for ChatGPT's version of this post), reports that  "A vintage watch is a pre-owned timepiece, typically 20 years or older, that is considered collectible and valuable due to its history, rarity, and condition."

What about:

  • Collectability and value due to history, rarity and condition?
    One could argue that a Moonswatch is valuable due to its history, rarity (even after 10 months, its still difficult to find in many places), and condition (if you wear the right model in the right conditions, the caseback - and your wrist - might have a nice wrist patina).
  • New, old stock (NOS) watches?  
    Watches like this 1966 Omega De Ville that were never sold, but clearly aren't "new."
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  • New watches made from old movements?  
    Mercer Watch Co. introduced the Madison with a beautiful enamel dial and a New-Old Stock (NOS) France Ebauches movement. 
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 Vortic Watch Company makes custom watches from pocket watches made in the US decades ago.

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  • Production status? The Casio F-91W has been in continuous production over 30 years. 
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The Vostok Komandirskie began production in 1965.

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  • Watches the manufacturer labels as "vintage," like the Bertucci A-2T Vintage? Do these current versions with newer movements and materials count as "vintage"?
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How are "antique," "classic," "retro", and  "vintage" different?

eBay formerly defined the "antique," "classic," "retro", and "vintage" as "old", but further distinguished "vintage" and "antique" for trade purposes.

eBay defined antique using the Antiques Roadshow definition:  "[g]enerally speaking, an object of considerable age valued for its aesthetic or historical significance. In the antiques trade, the term refers to objects more than 100 years old."

"Antique" describes items that are "valued for their aesthetic or historical value and are at least 100 years old." That means that watches and pocket watches from before 1916 are now considered antique.

"Vintage" has several different accepted meanings, including "that the item is of a fashion that was popular in a different era." Used in this sense, eBay explains, "vintage" may not even mean that it was produced in that era, but simply that it mimics the fashions of that era. By that definition, the Timex Q Falcon Eye Reissue would qualify.

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Hopefully this defines "vintage" more clearly than a 100 year-old acrylic crystal.😂

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How do you define vintage?

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Vintage Watches: Timeless Pieces of History (by ChatGPT)

Vintage watches have become increasingly popular in recent years, with enthusiasts and collectors alike eager to own a piece of history. But what exactly makes a watch "vintage"?

A vintage watch is typically defined as a pre-owned timepiece that is 20 years or older. The term "vintage" refers to the age of the watch, but it also encompasses its rarity, condition, and historical significance.

There are many factors that contribute to the value of a vintage watch, including the brand, the model, the materials used, and the craftsmanship. For example, a vintage Rolex or Omega can command a high price due to the reputation of the brand, the quality of their materials, and their intricate mechanical movements.

In addition to their value, vintage watches have a unique charm and personality that sets them apart from modern watches. The patina on the dial, the wear on the case and bracelet, and the signs of age on the movement all add to the character of the piece and tell a story of its history.

Collecting vintage watches can be a rewarding hobby, but it is also important to be informed and cautious. It is crucial to thoroughly research a vintage watch before making a purchase, as there are many counterfeit and fake vintage watches on the market. A trusted dealer or a professional appraiser can help verify the authenticity of a vintage watch.

In conclusion, vintage watches are more than just timepieces – they are historical artifacts that offer a glimpse into the past. Whether you're a collector or simply appreciate the beauty and craftsmanship of these timeless pieces, vintage watches are a valuable addition to any collection.

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It blows my mind that anything made pre 2000 is now considered vintage. Maybe it's just me, but I still think of the mid 20th century as  true vintage.

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When I made the ”watches from each decade” serie I originally planned and stopped at the 70s. Without any real definitions I felt comfortable with calling these watches vintage. I seen others saying 25 year old waches are vintage. That is alright with me also. 

BTW I look at that DeVille from -66 almost daily.

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Technically it’s 25 years, it’s certainly pre 1980s factoring in the impact of the ”quartz crisis”, but then again, I’m no expert.

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Porthole

Technically it’s 25 years, it’s certainly pre 1980s factoring in the impact of the ”quartz crisis”, but then again, I’m no expert.

@Porthole, you have significant knowledge about the topic.  Maybe "expert" is as nebulous as "vintage"? 😂

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Anything old enough that I worry about diving with it.  :-)

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I think you're overthinking it.  To me, it just means older than about 20 years.  I say that because most of the other criteria you discuss are subjective.  Valuable?  Is that the same as expensive, and if so by whose standards?  Historically important?  Again, by what standard do we judge?

To be clear, there are tons of watches that fit the bill and are not interesting or valuable. There are tons of watches that are 25 years old, but you can buy the exact same thing made new today.  I would argue that a watch like that is uninteresting, while still being "vintage".  Except...what about a Patek Calatrava?  That's a classic watch that's important in watch history?  So does the fact you can buy a new one that looks the same as a 20 year old one matter?

Know what?  This is one of those things that has no answer.  It's a feeling, a mood if you will.  Even when I set out to tell you what I think it means, I can't come up with an easy definition.  I don't think a question like that has an answer that most could agree on.

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From a semantic point of view I feel vintage has to be at least one generation removed, so yeah 25 years sounds about right. From an emotional point of view I use the definition 'Can I buy it new? No? It's vintage.' For example, I have a vintage Tudor North Flag... 

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Also, great post, great watches. That '66 De Ville is calling to me...

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I use 25 years to denote a vintage watch (or anything). I also use 100 years to denote antique.

The line always moves. Those super popular 1990's Tag Heuers are now vintage. The first common wristwatches will soon be antiques.

Vintage styling and vintage inspired are just that, and not vintage.

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Not much I can add that hasn't already been said.  The general rule is 25 for vintage and 50 for antique.  Of course as time goes on the date range moves along with it.  I see stuff in the antique store now that was new in my grandparents house back in the day.

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To me vintage with regard to watches is purely about the age. A new watch styled to look vintage or old is not a vintage watch in my opinion.

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Agreed - 25 years old makes a piece "vintage."

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I would say anything prior the quartz crisis.....

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timegeek

@Porthole, you have significant knowledge about the topic.  Maybe "expert" is as nebulous as "vintage"? 😂

I have never once said I am an expert - others may have bestowed the handle upon me, but that was their decision, not mine. I have acquired knowledge, and cultivated opinions based upon said knowledge, whether it is fully relevant to the subject in hand, or welcome to the audience, is by-the-by and on a case-by-case basis.

The general consensus for vintage is 25 years, regardless of form. Such a window does now encapsulate a large majority of the 1990s, but when you consider what goes into each watch, it is fair to assume that anything older than 25 years will have had a “life” and will have had some wear and tear. For some this is appealing, for others, abhorrent. The design is also key - coming out of the 80s into the 90s with the millennium around the corner, design was bold and brash, reactionary to what some would call old-fashioned tropes. The industry was also in tatters, famous brands were being glommed together into portfolios, others were lost to the early 80s Quartz apocalypse, the remainder had to adapt or die… it showed in the product. The 90s, whilst seemingly too young to appear vintage, was an eon ago in watchmaking. As it seems, with current projections, it will be forgotten when the archives are raided for future-retro inspiration; you’ll never see the likes of the Kirium or 1481010 series again.

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Excellent piece Kevin. Some nice watch rabbit holes for me too!

All makes sense, one can register a 1997 as a classic car in most states now, which blows my mind. Only makes sense to apply a similar logic to watches.

PS, great watch pillows.

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I tend to think of "vintage" in terms of a generation. Now a generation can be anywhere from 10-20 years. So using 20 years or more to define vintage probably works.

If I think about music, when I was a teenager in the 1970s Punk Rock was the driving force behind the new music. Of course, much of the impetus of that music style was derived from the "punk rock" of the 1950s which was Rockabilly music. However, the recordings of the 1950s, while in spirit were challenging the ethos of the time, sounded dated compared to the raw recordings being released in the 1970s. And, which now, sound somewhat tamer than the explosive reaction they had in the 1970s - I mean The Ramones music has been used in endless commercials in the modern era.

So, I personally would consider a "vintage" watch as one that was popular or common in a previous generation.

I know we all joke about Rolex never changing its designs, and for the most part that is truth, but there is still some distinction which enables us to distinguish between the generations - even for a brand such as Rolex.

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Do startup employees change what motivates them, or does the business  change employee preferences? — Learn to Scale
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AllTheWatches

Excellent piece Kevin. Some nice watch rabbit holes for me too!

All makes sense, one can register a 1997 as a classic car in most states now, which blows my mind. Only makes sense to apply a similar logic to watches.

PS, great watch pillows.

Thank you, sir!  I keep the vintage watches in this box made from reclaimed ("vintage?") wood.  The pillows came with the box.  Hopefully, that's one less rabbit hole, but enjoy the others... 😂

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ChronoGuy

I tend to think of "vintage" in terms of a generation. Now a generation can be anywhere from 10-20 years. So using 20 years or more to define vintage probably works.

If I think about music, when I was a teenager in the 1970s Punk Rock was the driving force behind the new music. Of course, much of the impetus of that music style was derived from the "punk rock" of the 1950s which was Rockabilly music. However, the recordings of the 1950s, while in spirit were challenging the ethos of the time, sounded dated compared to the raw recordings being released in the 1970s. And, which now, sound somewhat tamer than the explosive reaction they had in the 1970s - I mean The Ramones music has been used in endless commercials in the modern era.

So, I personally would consider a "vintage" watch as one that was popular or common in a previous generation.

I know we all joke about Rolex never changing its designs, and for the most part that is truth, but there is still some distinction which enables us to distinguish between the generations - even for a brand such as Rolex.

I saw a note somewhere about treating long-running Rolex models as vintage based on retired movements that were replaced by newer movements.  I prefer to keep it simple - age only.

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Declan92

It’s an interesting topic, especially the difference between vintage and antique, makes sense, learned something new there. Never thought too much about this, however I suppose I have always naturally thought a watch is vintage when it is 20 ish years old, that being the physical item itself. I feel some confusion can arise when looking at vintage and vintage inspired watches. The F91-W, I would call it retro design, or just the iconic F91-W. I’m interested, as it was of that late 80s time and still is today unchanged in its original form, and is the same brand (can It be classed as vintage inspired off your own design) does this watch get a pass on the vintage inspired label?…and does this then class this watch as a timeless design, just like a Speedmaster or Submariner. It has transcended generations just like those designs. I don’t know, now I am confused about vintage inspired/timeless design. I can see why the 20 years rule was put in place for a vintage watch this can give you a headache. 

It's hard to call something that's still made - especially with the same movement - "vintage."  But part of the vintage charm is in its individual history.  A 25 year-old F91-W has some history - it's had a life.  So, I'd call that specific watch "vintage."  It will be great if / when some of these iconic designs are still in production when the original models qualify as "antiques." 😮

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Stroud_Green

It blows my mind that anything made pre 2000 is now considered vintage. Maybe it's just me, but I still think of the mid 20th century as  true vintage.

You'll often see watches from the 90s to early 00s described as neo-vintage which I myself like the term for that 10-15 year period. Anything 80s to me is vintage now.

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Rolexahoma

You'll often see watches from the 90s to early 00s described as neo-vintage which I myself like the term for that 10-15 year period. Anything 80s to me is vintage now.

Here's an interesting article on neo-vintage watches.

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So what is a relic?

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The answer to this one is a worry to me too. 
I know when I think vintage watch I picture 1950s watches. 
but that is not the definition. 
I have seen a few definitions but have come to terms with if it is older than 1979 is vintage. 
even if this is not the agreed age. I’m sticking with it 😁

it has nothing to do with the fact I was born in 1980. 

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Velomax

So what is a relic?

According to the Cambridge Dictionary, a relic is:

an object, tradition, or system from the past that continues to exist:
During the dig, the archaeological team found some relics from the Stone Age.
The country's employment system is a relic of the 1960s when jobs were scarce.

a part of the body or something that belonged to a holy person:
These bones are the relics of a 12th-century saint.

Not too helpful, unless we're talking about a holy person... 🤣

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Another example of a 'neo-vintage' watch: this Fears Archival 1930 is a spanking new watch with a NOS ETA 2360 movement from the 1960s. I like it. 

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Very nice! Is it custom or was it made in a larger quantity? 

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Very interesting topic. My feeling is that vintage means at least 25 years of age, discontinued and bearing the design and technology of its time.

To me the reissue of previous models should be qualified as "vintage-looking" watches.

Antique watches should be pre-WW2.

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I currently own two vintage watches. It’s a whole differnt area I want to get into and explore more. One is a tag night diver and one is a 1930s annual calendar