Patina, WTF?

Patina isn't rust... That picture is a watch that has moved past "patina" into corrosion. 

Watches are not past being functional tools, not everybody works in an office, or in an environment where phones are allowed/advised. 

I agree on the "all original" when talking about vintage watches though, I want a serviced, and well maintained watch. I personally have no use for a "showpiece" watch that just sits around looking pretty. Any watch I own needs to work, and be wearable for day to day activities. 

So I think we may be talking about different types of patina here.

I think you may be referring to the strict definition of copper/bronze/brass patina, which is the greenish corrosion you find on copper and copper based alloys when they are exposed to air, water, and time.  My chemistry classes are old but it's a similar chemical reaction to iron rusting or silver tarnishing; it is the formation of a metal oxide due to the corrosive effects of oxygen.  To this process, I have little positive to say (fie upon ye bronze watch enthusiasts!).

There's a colloquial usage of patina that is also relevant to watch collecting, the process of weathering and micro scratches.  I've seen this most specifically used with regards to platinum, and the beautiful satiny finish that it can pick up after having been worn well over a long time.

With steel, the process is slower but I think most of us treasure a few scratches on our watches (at least eventually).  That type of patina doesn't impact the functioning of the watch, just is evidence of a watch that's well worn and well loved.

I don't own a bronze watch and probably never will, not my cup of tea sorry. 

But I do think, referring to a watch showing it's age and the patina that forms on the watch over time is what gives it it's character and shows that the watch was worn for it's intended purpose. I can't and don't baby my watches, I have no safe queens in my collection. 

I keep my watches serviced and if anything breaks I fix it, but I won't be replacing dials and hands to make them look new and pretty again, I may as well just buy another new watch and either sell or give away the older watch, which is kind of missing the point of collecting the watch in the first place, to make them my own and to have a connection to it through all the little scratches and marks on the watch.

Character not patina 💯

Patina is age and wear in my book. That bronze bad boy is super tarnished, and thats just the effects of its copper content working it’s magic Vs the tin.

This fetishization stems from cargo cult mentality. Ugh, some super rare exclusive watch sold for big sum despite being beat up. Crunk think it valuable because it beat up! Me make mass-produced McLuxury watch look like antique relic and be rich!

That's not how it works. There is what a thing is and what it signifies. Worry more about the former than the latter. I think the distressers are silly fools, but at least they aren't afraid to wear their watches like the virgin cult is.

Please add the "tropical dial" whackos to this list. A sun-faded dial or bezel is not an aesthetic improvement or virtue of some sort. 

Yeah, I just can't with you guys anymore.  I posted 45 days' worth of pictures of a bronze watch gently patinaing from daily wear, but every time somebody starts a thread about patina they find the rustiest-ass watch on the planet.  Why?  To prove they're "right" to dislike patina.  Well good for you.

Everybody who needs their watches to stay the exact same color for life can just choose any of the eleventy million steel and precious metal watches out there.  Seriously, the world is your oyster.   Nobody's trying to take that from you, nobody's insisting that you wear a watch you don't like.  Some people like the patina, why does that have to bother folks?

You're incredibly comfortable telling others what they should and shouldn't think and like.  Good for you.

Truthfully, I'm a patina nut, real or fake.  I don't know why but old things (even cars) that are full of rust turn me on.  I'm getting ready to get a new car, but I'm going to miss my rusty car.  I am also not feeling that safe on the road.  Here are the things I love that look old and have patina.  Watches - Faded bezels make my heart beat hard, ghost bezels and tropical dials are great and I don't care if it's a reissue that they made look that way.  Cars, I love a rusty car that still runs good.  I love when I see an old car with a lot of mileage.   Guitars, I love an old worn guitar.  O.K.  So that is my weird fetish and not sure why I like old and worn out things.

Here is a picture of a limited edition Timex I own, they made the bezel look like the happy accidents that happened to a lot of Rolex watches back in the day, where the red turned Fuchsia. Probably one of my favorite watches because of the bezel.

Amen!

Bronze has a substantial amount of Copper in 1 oxidation state. it get oxidised with oxygen in air to Copper (2) which is blue. 

Yeah Red copper in 1 oxidation state get oxidized to blue copper in 2 oxidation state under the action of air. You are right 

"patina" is a concept used by watch dealers to inflate the value of damaged watches. That is all. 

I like the vintage car comparison. Think about a buyer of a vintage car saying: "I hope you haven't polished this!". Lol. But I personally find that the right kind of tarnish is very visually cool.

I like old stuff that looks new. I don‘t know…maybe it’s the ’eternal fountain of youth‘ I strive for by proxy with the anthropomorphic relationships I have with my aged acquisitions. The better they look and the older they are, the younger I feel — despite turning away in disgust when I look in the mirror. 

While I don't want to dig too deep into this (might otherwise turn into a multi-paragraph pamphlet), I will say that "good patina", as described above by other members, such as Edge168n, is more akin to lightly crinkly, broken in and organically discolored leather seats on an old Italian sports car than to rusty fenders.

There is a fine line for sure, but let's not forget how holding pristine condition as a paramount value can wreak havoc on watches. I'd much rather pay more for a scratched up Santos Galbee than ending up with an overpolished, pebble-like example with none of the character lines intact.

I think it is a never ending argument between patina or no patina. As with all our preferences with watches we like or own, and who knows how varied those individual choices are throughout the broad spectrum of enthusiasts or collectors, I have made my peace with this fact of life. We all have different likes and dislikes. If we can respect each other's choices which really do not affect our own way of life otherwise, let it be. As is always said in the forum, to each his own. 👊

Patina is just an aesthetic choice that some watch owners like. While I agree with your comparison on vintage cars and their restoration, there are counterpoints as well.

For example, boots and patina. Check out this RW Iron Ranger which has developed a nice patina (not my pic)
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/7b/4d/2f/7b4d2f02eb2bf781b91709e0e8582a5e.jpg

While I wouldn't purposefully age my own IRs, I do like that look and assume mine will get there eventually.

You might be surprised that I am more with @thekris on this, even though I spent almost two months teasing him. Good or bad patina:

The answer is both. “Bad” oxidation on the hands will need some attention. “Good” patina on the dial is from decades of sun and perhaps moisture. Nothing to be done there.

Bronze is a choice, not mine, but one that is easily defensible. Humans have been fascinated by the effects of water on copper since metal working began.

Very good deduction.

I agree!!

Nailed it.

Patina is not green. That is sulphide buildup. Brass attracts sulphur from the air and it cleans off best with citric acid, hydrogen peroxide and water. My still does that after every run. 

This same argument happens in the car world too.  I know several guys that fall over with their wallets open for old pickups with surface rust.  You either like the esthetic or you don't.  Some people do and they are willing to pay for it.  Some people don't and they are equally willing to pay for that.  To each his own.  

The combination of a "more is more" mentality, and the rather orgasmic appreciation some have for a singular aspect is where I stop relating.

A normal appreciation of a bit of "lived in" wear and the effects of entropy, a mild preference, fine. But I cannot pretend to find people gushing over sun-bleached, mildewed, and corroded items as if they are high art is not a disturbing aberration. Perhaps this is all internet/social media weirdness and nobody actually goes around cooing over such things in person.

I am warming up to this notion of wear as a backlash, a statement against an opposite extreme. But I've always been one for aging gracefully and not rushing or faking it.

Patina is rust & grime and dirt; all bad things, right?.

Nope.  

Dependson the material.  

Patina on iron/steel is "rust & grime and dirt; all bad things"

Patina on Copper/Copper alloy's is a protective outer layer that prevents further corrosion.

Patina on Copper/Copper alloy's is a protective outer layer that prevents further corrosion.

I do not believe this is true. 

Cite me some science that proves that patina stops corrosion then

https://www.witpress.com/Secure/elibrary/papers/9781845640323/9781845640323004FU1.pdf
 

read away. 

https://news.stanford.edu/pr/00/aluminum511.html#:~:text=Shifting%20atoms&text=structure%20changes%20just%20enough%20to,aluminum%20oxide%20metal%20resists%20corrosion.

Whenever I see an old tool watch in near perfect nick all I can think about is pollies faking working in brand new hi vis and ppe

That said - equally hate forced aging.