To Homage or Not to Homage...

In my opinion you buy an object, not a brand, or a story. With that in mind, I think there is good sense in buying the homages. The biggest drawback to most of the homage brands is the lack of customer support, but that can be overcome by going with a brand like Long Island Watches Islander series.

I don't find most of the designs being copied to be appealing, so I'm not drawn to most of the "homage" brands, but I would definitely go that route over Seiko if they did appeal to me.

Exactly!! Pagani Design has better specs then most low to mid tier Seikos.

I suppose this is more a comment on movement and timekeeping. In simple terms, Seiko has a soft middle. Low end stuff is good. Grand Seiko rocks. Everything in between is comprehensively murdered by the Swiss. At least as far as movements and accuracy goes.

I think it's a very personal choice. For some, it's a no-brainer... one watch outperforms the other in x, y, and z ways... so you buy it. Doesn't matter what it says on the dial. It's a tool, and you want the best tool for the job. For others, they don't want these made-up brands, coming out of Chinese sweatshops, on their wrist. They would rather have the brand cache of Seiko so that, even if they don't have a signed crown, or something's slightly mis-aligned, they feel better about the brand itself, in general, than anything else.

I see both sides of the argument and, again, it's very personal choice. Some people can't see past the first method, some can't see past the second. It only really matters, in terms of third parties, if/when it comes time to sell. In that scenario, far less people will be lining up to buy a used San Martin than a Seiko.

In general, I don’t like homages. That’s a very personal thing, I certainly don’t judge others for liking them.

That said, this is one of my issues with Seiko. It just feels lazy to me that they peddle the same level of watch as 10 years ago while everyone else has moved ahead. I don’t think it would hurt them to fix their issues and provide a little more for the money, but I see why they don’t. As long as people keep buying, why would they upgrade the product? It’s sad because I think Seiko has done a lot of great things…they should be better than that.

So I think it makes lots of sense to get the homage if you’re interested in specs.

You are not wrong!

You are exactly correct on Seiko...

I agree with many of the points.

For me, it depends on what you are homaging and the reason you are buying the homage.

If you are homaging a popular expensive watch like an AP, Patek or Rolex and you are trying to fool someone that what you are wearing is in the same quality bracket - then don't do it. You just look like a douche.

If you are purchasing the homage because you really like the design, the manufacturing quality is up to snuff, and you don't care what people think about your watch...then go for it. Nothing wrong with it.

I think too much has been made about different watch makers getting inspired by classic designs. Let's face it, the following is just fact...

AP released the first luxury sports watch with the Royal Oak...whether it was Genta copying himself or another designer being inspired by Genta, there are so many variants on the theme. Does this mean the Nautilus from Patek is a homage? Yep - it very much is. What about the Overseas from Vacheron? Yep it sure is. We could keep going. Does that stop me from buying an Overseas? Nope - I love my Overseas...it's awesome.

Blancpain released the first commercial/military dive watch with the Fifty Fathoms. Does that mean the Rolex Submariner is a homage? Yep - it sure is. Have there been many other homages to both the Fifty Fathoms and the Submariner - you bet. Let's remember that many popular Seiko designs were homages to popular Swiss watches. So what is the difference between a homage and a homage of a homage? Nothing - they are all the same.

Don't overthink it...if the watch is well made and affordable and you like it...'nuff said.

I dont buy homages but only because I just mod or build myself. But the irony with quality is even bigger on my end for that matter. The NH movements I use in my self assembled watches tend to outperform the 4R movements in my original Seiko watches haha.

All that said, the biggest reason I still buy Seiko watches is because the name matters me in terms of warranty and nostalgia. Also, it's too hard to get lume anywhere near as decent on a homage or third party parts.

My biggest Frankenstein is my SKX. It has an original Seiko dial and hands but everything else is aftermarket because I wanted sapphire and hacking movement plus a different bezel and crown. Do I still consider it a Seiko? Yes...kinda...haha. It doesn't matter to me because it has all the characteristics I like!

I'm gonna be brutally honest with you: My girlfriend gifted me a Seiko quartz chronograph for christmas 2 years ago. I didn't have too many watches back then, but I already got my Bersigar Aquaracer and Submariner homages. And wanna know a secret? Even though the Seiko was twice the price of the Bersigars, it was glaringly obvious that the level of quality and finishing was subpar compared to the chinese! Rattling bracelet with hollow end links, pressed metal clasp, plastic and other cheap materials used on the dial and indices, hardlex instead of sapphire, just a tiny bit of lume on the hands and none on the indices...

Long story short: I could never get rid of this watch, and I still often wear it. Since it was a gift, I also don't mind its issues and am able to accept it as-is. However, if I had paid full retail for this thing, I would've been pissed. I've owned another Seiko many years ago, a titanium chronograph, and that one was on a whole different level. So, I don't really know what happened to Seiko along the way, but they need to get their sh*t together if they still want to compete with today's watch market!

It is interesting that the watch community uses homage as a contextual dirty word. Homage in the arts and engineering is what moves and evolves design iterations. Nothing is original. We stand on shoulders of designers before us. When is enough change no longer a homage? Do we add more hands? Use a purple sapphire? Bottle cap crown? Is it fair for companies to keep homaging itself for sake of making more money?

Cloning and pirate watches with incorrect brand labeling which intends to misleads public is another issue and should not be filed under homage.

In my view you are only ever buying a brand or a story so a knock-off is never the answer.

That's what makes watches so interesting, we all come at the hobby from different perspectives.

I've so far pulled the trigger on two homage watches, a Loreo and a Cadisen. The Cadisen I picked is a dressy JLC or Grand Seiko-like dress watch and the Loreo is a Submariner facsimile. Both, by the way, are still in transit so I don't know whether they are any good. I'm okay with the gamble of getting these Chinese watches. But for the price I paid for both watches, if they're garbage I skip going out to dinner for two weekends and I'm balanced out financially. At that point, I don't even need to worry about customer support. It's less worrisome ultimately.

Absolutely. To expand on my thesis a little - when Im buying a whitegood (a new vacuum cleaner, a microwave oven, a washing machine etc) Im buying a product, a mere object. It has no story, it doesn't have to make me feel anything - just do its job for the least amount of money possible - its anti-luxury.

When Im buying a luxury - like a watch, its all and only feels. The physical object is an avatar for the story, the brand, the narrative; its a vessel that holds feelings and is important only insofar as it does that.

Thats why a knock-off (or as some pretend - a 'homage) is pointless, its an empty vessel.

I was just having a conversation with a YouTuber about this subject. It surprised him that I feel my Atticus Meteora is as good as my Tudor BB36 in all but the movement. The Atticus is 25% of the cost

It isn't about the cost. Making a decent homage is no cheaper than making an own design. The problem lies in the sales. A Chinese manufacturer knows they will sell loads of homage watches, but it's very hit and miss with an own design. I am happy to wear a homage as long as it isn't a direct homage, but that's another subject I suppose

That's what I mean with the design. Not only do you have to come up with the design, and produce it in decent numbers so that it is initially available, you will also have to market it. There is a lot of trial and error involved, and Seiko produces a huge number of different designs, often particular to different markets. This is a substantial overhead.

The manufacturer of an homage watch does not have to consider this effort.

It all comes down to whether you value history and heritage. I personally enjoy owning a watch that has an illustrious past, knowing that there's a line of respect that has been passed down. Sure value for money has to be considered, I often think about this more with the $3000+ pieces with the Chinese homages, however with Seikos, Tissots etc. I much prefer the original. Even if the quality is a little less.

Good points...I will say, two of my San Martins I have taken snorkeling for four to five days, hours a day. Never had an issue and they didn't lose time...they just worked

I agree with you..When somebody asked what I though of homage watches I said some of them are better then the product they are styled after . In this case i think you are correct. You make the purchase for yourself . I recenly purchased a Seiko diver as, a beater, but i was so disseapointed in the quality I actually sent it back,,,and I have never done that. JMO

Haven’t heard of Atticus. Will have to check them out!

Swiss watch brands have the best PR. They were able to convince the world that somehow their obsolete watches were nicer, rarer, better made, better quality, better spec’d and more valuable than anything else. Good for them, they’ve made billions off of that premise. But I’ll continue to buy Timex or Chinese brands or cheap Swiss brands from now on. Much more fun.

Couldn't agree more! The sub 100 usd Seiko 5s are awesome with tons of different models and so inexpensive that they are a dangerous hobby. Just bought a SNKL23J1 and SNKE51J for 98 bucks with coupon. Even upgrading to sapphire +AR will still put you below 140 bucks for a Japan market watch.

But then their middle ground even up to 500 usd lack. Sapphires, QR coating, signed crowns, or decent bracelets, things you don't expect on their Seiko 5 line. You need to go to JDM models or high end (+700plus) to get those things that you can easily find in many Tissots under 500 usd.

Lately? Complaints about Seiko’s QC issues is an old story. Luckily none of my Seikos have had any QC issues. As for San Martin’s QC…the one San Martin I purchased, a 62MAS homage, I returned because of a QC issue…the second hand would get stuck on the minute hand and the watch would stop!

I am against watches that attempt to mimic every single last design element of popular watches. You will not see me wearing a one for one copy of any watch. However, I think there is a great use case scenario for exactly what you're proposing - if the homage watch has better specs than a mid to low range watch, then I'm all for the homage.

There is nothing wrong with buying the homages, I own several. When discussing the Marinemaster series keep in mind you get a GS level movement and finishing (Zaratzu). Essentially the entry level GS. Yes the bracelets are a dispointment as they are on many GS models as well. The unsigned crown doesnt really bother me, bad misalignments do though.

Compare the Marinemaster to let say the Sumo side by side and you can clearly see why you are paying what you pay for the Marinemaster.

I pick the MM300 over any of the GS sport models/divers as I don't care at all for the styling of those GS divers. The MM300, IMHO is done right....or at least to my liking.

Oh I get it...Like I said, I have a MarineMaster 300...I just think some of these homages are being better spec'd than the original which is just crazy....

Right on! Adding to your point, if I may, I think it wouldn’t be inaccurate to say that Tudor is one of the most prolific homage brands in the world. Amazing watches in their own right, but the literal reason for the brands existence, was to offer affordable versions of big brother Rolex’s pieces… ie homages

Perhaps part of the problem, is that we tend to use homage as an umbrella term for everything from “inspired by” all the way to “1:1 replica minus the logo”. I think there’s got to be a bit more nuance.

I don't generally do homages, certainly not of affordable watches ( I do have an excellent Steeldive PloProf homage) - imho my Seiko Willard is as well made as both my OMEGA's ( movement not included , obviously). I love the DLC coating & fail to understand why my supposedly more premium Swiss watches lack that as they seem to scratch up so easily!

For me the Seiko sweet spot is around £1000, any less and that's where QC issues creep in.

I bought the Explorer top hat homage to see if I was going down the RE 36mm rabbit hole again. I hadn’t worn anything smaller than 40mm since 2002 when I sold my last RE. Genuinely have to say, not sure if I will bother with the RE now, as this 250 quid watch has blown my socks off. Money going on a Panerai submersible now 👌