I really don’t see enough of a difference to justify the cost….

There is undoubtedly a « swiss made » tax that has no correlation with quality.

Also I think most movements nowadays are good enough and unless you are looking for something super special (complications or 100% craftsmanship), there is no reason to care much about calibers.

At least they may be secondary to many other technical features and this is were microbrands shine in general.

I think there is a difference in quality between more and less expensive watches but that has little to do with origin. Whether that difference is "worth it" and can "justify" the cost is subjective. I agree that it becomes more difficult to see any sort of difference as the price increases.

The last sentence is spot on.

Watch prices generally have very little to do with the costs of production. And as they get more expensive, the bigger the margins become.

I reckon that the best value movement on the market is the Miyota 9000 series. 28,800vph for a smooth sweep and thinner than a Sellita SW200. You can buy one for under $100. Manufacturers buying in bulk will get them for considerably less than that.

Movement is probably the last thing I worry about TBH. As long as it's reliable relatively cheap to service and accurate enough for me not to notice in a day I'm good. 🤷

The Miyota 91xx in my Melbourne Portsea triple calendar is the best movement in my collection.

My California dial Marlin houses a Miyota 81xx. Last time-check it had matched the the Miyota 91xx for almost three weeks.🤨😄

Give me a simple NH35A, or a Miyota 8- or 9000-series and I'm happy. I don't have to have a Swiss movement.

If I like the look of the watch enough, even the basic Chinese movements are fine. I'm easy to please.

The look & finish of the watch is paramount to me, and manufacturing has become so good on lower-end watches...well...why pay more unless it's a commemorative purchase?

Take a large watch brand spending a huge amount of money to sponsor global sports events and paying even more money to multi-millionaire sport personalities to wear their watches (and the free watches that they give them).

That translates into a bucket load of money that has to be recovered in hefty mark ups on the watches in the hope that the average Joe buys one because he’s been smitten by the advertising and product placement while watching these events and thinks owning one will mean he’s just like those sports personalities.

The large watch corporation and multi-millionaire sports personalities trouser huge amounts of money by taking these mark ups from those hard working “customers” who can likely afford it least (compared to the corporation’s shareholders and the sports personalities).

The key to this is they sell the “dream” and need average Joes to buy into it.

Christopher Ward are transparent that RRP is three times production cost. For the luxury brands this multiple will be significantly greater so that gives you a feel for the delta between price and production cost that they can share amongst their shareholders and the sponsored sports and athletes.

Buying such a premium watch is effectively a “charitable donation” gifting wads of cash to those recipients. Hopefully those choosing to do so do it with their eyes open!?

But I am with you in seeking “value”.

Yup, Swiss brands are getting stupid with price increases to the point that I’m losing interest in Rolex, Omega, IWC and even Tudor. 😞

Even worse is the rise of the $1000 swiss microbrand ... using selitas is one thing but especially after import fees, I don't see their value at this point. I can buy anything from Singapore duty free and since $800 is the limit without fees from other places, anything over that tends to be a deal breaker for me. Unfortunately, as there have been a few brands just hitting over that limit that I might have bought if they hadn't.

In some ways this is the Toyota vs Lexus vs BMW vs Porsche vs Ferrari vs McLaren etc comparison (or whichever brands you prefer to include)

At what point is one any so significantly better than any other in terms of engine and body build, reliability, ability to drive way faster than any local speed limit will permit, etc. etc.? Enough to justify the often astronomical price differences? They all can get you from point A to point B in safety and in style.

Status, design, availability, exclusivity, how it makes you feel when owning - these matter differently to different people.

Disagree.

Big Seiko fan, but their movements aren't as accurate and precise as similarly priced Swiss in my experience. ( In fact I've found Seiko's own humble NH35 "better" than their 6rxx !)

I'm not biased one way or the other as I love both, Seiko certainly punch above their weight in every department except for the movement, & for me that's the most important part.

To each their own 😉👍🏻

Your price ranges are an apples to oranges comparison. Finer Japanese movements rival finer Swiss movements and their prices are comparable.

Truth. Your point as I read it isn’t that the higher end watches aren’t objectively or technically better, it is that the difference doesn’t justify the vast difference in price.

Dave gets it. Its been worked on by the Swiss for many yrs. Sufficive to say its as the Swiss who pivoted during the Quartz crisis and the Japanese went the quartz route. The swiss zigged when the Japanese zagged.

Ahhh, okay. I guess I can see that from the post? 🤷‍♂️

The problem is when a Swiss watch isn't much more expensive than a watch using a 9 series miyota movement, in that case it's an easy choice.

Out of interest what's important regarding the movement to you? Accuracy? Longevity? Cost of serving? I sometimes wonder if I would be just as happy with a decent quartz movement.

I have Rolex, Cartier, TH, AP, JLC and a couple of Swiss microbrands. I recently added a mecaquartz AVI-8 to my collection. At $150, it’s the most accurate timepiece in my collection, has by far the best lume, looks substantial and is comfortable to wear. There will always be something special about exclusivity and Swiss watches, but honestly one does have to question the vast price differences.

I'd just settle for Fine Timepiece Solutions to come out with a high heartbeat, HAQ-ish style, shock resistant, three hander.

Slap that in a US made case, I'd buy multiples right now.

I'm not as familiar with the Japanese alternatives, but the Swiss seem to have the market cornered in that department. The movement in the Marathon Stainless Navigator ad an example.

Well, this comment may get some heat but I happen to think seiko is one of if not the most overrated and least deserving watch manufacturer of enthusiasts lust. Quality control is a joke, many prices are on par with Swiss and micro brands that offer better quality, more accuracy and therefore better value.

I will say a base Swiss movement tends to be much lore accurate than even some mid teir seiko movements. I don’t disagree with you that some of what your paying for in a Swiss watch is……well it being Swiss.

A German brand (Nomos) may actually dollar for dollar be superior in QC and movement finishing over any Swiss or Japanese watch makers. Not sure how they do it.

I'd say that Seiko are noticeably not supplying the 6 series 28,800vph movement to third parties. That might not be an accident - keep 6 series as a premium Seiko-only offering.

Whereas they are willing to supply the excellent 28,800 NE88 mechanical chronograph movement. A market dominated by the ETA 7750 and it's Sellita clone.

Thankfully Miyota's 9000 series fill the gap for three handers.

Ultimately watch enthusiasts care about this stuff. 99.9% of watch buyers don't. And nor does Seiko.

You can compare everything to anything, it all depends on what criteria you choose to compare them.

Yes, I heard that about Seiko. But try Miyota: this is better than the ETA and Sellita I have.

The majority of Nomos watchmaking is in house, so their ability to really control quality is next level (and I don’t think they get enough credit for it considering their volume and catalog). Didn’t realize just how much they did on their own until a little while ago.

Eh, watch prices set by brands and what buyers and/or collectors are willing to pay are very subjective. I feel like I do get what I pay for in Omega, Tudor, Monta, and Fredrique Constant as Swiss brands, and doubly so with a brand like Tissot. I don't see the value as much in Glasshütte Original, Rolex, or Breitling. Others may have different opinions on where or if value and enjoyment is lost due to price.

Do I find Seiko, Orient, or Citizen (Miyota) watches and movements any less enjoyable than Swiss? No, I enjoy Seiko Prospex, Orient, and Citizen watches a lot for their price points. And still, Seiko SLA movement watches and even Grand Seiko often find me viewing them as pricepoints too far for my tolerance. Same for high-end Citizen Quartz movements, like those in The Citizen line.

I don't think for most collectors it's black and white in how they view Swiss vs. Japanese watches - lots of subjectivity and nuances. Now how Chinese watches are viewed, myself included, there is some dissonance between the objective quality of the products and how they are viewed by us collectors subjectively.

Agree with you, especially on the comment about the NH35 vs. 6RXX. I have 2 Seikos withe the 6R15 movement and they keep terrible time, even from the beginning. My pieces with the 4RXX or NHXX movements keep better time.

I've had a couple of Miyota watches & agree, they're more accurate than my Seikos. 👍🏻

Accuracy and robustness. It's the notion that this little box of gears that's evolved over generations can be so insanely precise and durable.

I've got a couple of really decent quartz and I love them too, but I guess like most of us I'm swept up in the romance of mechanics.

Good question. Cheers mate 🍻