Have we lost all perspective

With my recent visit to London's Bond street, I had the pleasure of treading the floors of arguably some of the finest watch brands we are fortunate to have. Patek, ALS, JLC and Breguet to name but a few.

Getting hands on with some master pieces from these brands my thoughts wonder to us who chase so hard for the sports pieces from the big R and now worryingly Omega with waiting lists.

As we all know the price increases are going skywards. For the same money as sports pieces from Rolex in retail price and worse the resale value, you can have the beautiful crafted pieces from the above or even the likes of D. Dornblueth & son or H Moser.

My Question. Have we lost all perspective on Value in this collecting game? Do people truly believe 15 - 20 Grand on a Rolex Sports piece is true value when you consider the above.

thoughts please.

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On my way home on the train,I too walked down Bond Street and popped into a few boutiques ,it's amazing what you can try on ,the most expensive was an all gold VC at £140,000,thing is that's just a week's wage to a football player who probably doesn't know anything about the history or workmanship gone into it ,not classing all football players ignorant,as I'm sure some will be genuine, things are only made if people are prepared to buy them

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Concern about "perspective on Value" regarding luxury goods is a moral quandary, not an economic one. Thorstein Veblen has been proven right about the economic trajectory of luxury goods. If your question is not one of "good" or "bad" but rather one of taste, then I don't know what to say, it's taste.

Back when he was interesting, @HotWatchChick69 could give you 3500 words on this. Instead, he sits on a throne of Grand Seiko and watches his dogs destroy his yard.

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There's no perspective in this game, it's all about what the heart wants and how far your wallet will stretch to give in to your hearts desire (well mostly).

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In my opinion, in order to properly discuss, I believe you should define what you consider "value" within this context since depending on your operational definition, our responses and opinions can run the gamut and therefore likely go off the rails. Just my 2 cents.

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Hell no!!! I’d never waste my money on another Rolex. There are so many more better watches out there. Tis true though, many have lost their way down the rabbit hole. Poor sods…🥃

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GallupisCool

In my opinion, in order to properly discuss, I believe you should define what you consider "value" within this context since depending on your operational definition, our responses and opinions can run the gamut and therefore likely go off the rails. Just my 2 cents.

Ok. in my mind, value of what you get for your coin. So whilst the likes of Rolex (as they tend to be the brand that is compared to as the stop gap) charge now 9 grand roughly for submariner, they are technically meant to be a tool watch. I like Rolex. I had 2, selling the Sub to put money in other pieces.

yet for the same money you can potentially walk away with a hand finished beauty which some would argue say are true watch make makers. I realise beauty is in the eye of the beholder but i surely cant be the one thinking this?

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I am a fan of specific Rolex models at MSRP. I am also a huge fan of other brands including the ones you mentioned. I am lucky to have a good AD, but if not for that if given the choice of waiting for a watch on a "list" vs. going to a smaller higher horology maker, I will go to Durnbluth, but they are really two separate watches. Nevermind what happens to value once you acquire them, if one cares about such things.

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Not one for telling people what to spend their money on, whilst I agree that £10-15k could be spent on a better, more interesting watch(es), the allure of a Rolex is hard to ignore for the majority. I don’t think there is anything we can do about it, Rolex is King, they do have a crown as their logo after all…

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Been thinking about this some recently.

Value matters but it's not the only criteria. Sometimes you just want the hot/trendy/status symbol item.

We all want to be unique, but also accepted by society. It's kind of a weird dichotomy in human nature.

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If you haven't seen him, Bill at WatchArtSci recently uploaded a video about creating a custom watch that breaks down all the costs. That puts perspective on how the big brands MSRP is 10x of production costs. So when you buy a Rolex, Omega, AP, Patek, etc., you're paying more for the brand name and their marketing spend. To an extent, there is value in that. It will be about how much you value a luxury watch's 'status symbol-ness' vs. the value of the physical watch. For me, indies are where the watch market is going in the next decade and where the cool stuff is.

https://youtu.be/Aq9ckaTx_Vs

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Mastiff

Ok. in my mind, value of what you get for your coin. So whilst the likes of Rolex (as they tend to be the brand that is compared to as the stop gap) charge now 9 grand roughly for submariner, they are technically meant to be a tool watch. I like Rolex. I had 2, selling the Sub to put money in other pieces.

yet for the same money you can potentially walk away with a hand finished beauty which some would argue say are true watch make makers. I realise beauty is in the eye of the beholder but i surely cant be the one thinking this?

In that case, I largely agree with your assessment and conclusion. But people in general are herd creatures, so would go for what they "know" or what they've heard and think they know. I always think back to the 1990s to early 2000s Honda NSX. Fantastic car that was, arguably, much better value than Porsche and Ferrari. But it's a Honda, and no one outside of enthusiasts (and the Japanese) knew or cared about it, so it was always at an inexplicably lower price.

I've generally no issues with how things are priced since that is more or less what the market will allow. I mean, I'd sure love prices to be lower or whatnot, but as long as there are buyers at various price points then it is what it is.

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Aurelian

Concern about "perspective on Value" regarding luxury goods is a moral quandary, not an economic one. Thorstein Veblen has been proven right about the economic trajectory of luxury goods. If your question is not one of "good" or "bad" but rather one of taste, then I don't know what to say, it's taste.

Back when he was interesting, @HotWatchChick69 could give you 3500 words on this. Instead, he sits on a throne of Grand Seiko and watches his dogs destroy his yard.

Nah, man, I got sucked into the 9-5 grind! For 2 years, I lived a glorious life as this dude...

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Unfortunately, they found me in the basement, and have put me to work now! Not only do I have to, you know, work, I also have been commuting between San Diego and the Bay Area! The gall of those bastards! Requiring me to actually... do work for my salary???

There is only one thing for it!

Workers of the world, unite and take over!!!

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You know, it just occurred to me how apt the above gif is... he wore a Rolex!

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And, given all the rampant crime and muggings for Rolexes, he really should have done a better job being careful. This is what happens when you're not aware of your surroundings and wearing a luxury timepiece!

https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-blog/just-because/rolex-watches-che-guevara.html

When Che Guevara was killed on October 9th, 1967, CIA operative Félix Rodríguez removed Guevara’s Rolex GMT-Master from the wrist of his corpse; the watch remains in his possession to this day.

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It really depends on how much one is into watches. There are people who say they're into watches - and maybe they truly feel that - but they couldn't name half a dozen brands outside of the big names.

This is not a judgement, but simply to note that someone like that is hardly going to perceive the value in a less well known watch brand, even if bang-for-buck, it wipes the floor with everything else.

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Anniek

If you haven't seen him, Bill at WatchArtSci recently uploaded a video about creating a custom watch that breaks down all the costs. That puts perspective on how the big brands MSRP is 10x of production costs. So when you buy a Rolex, Omega, AP, Patek, etc., you're paying more for the brand name and their marketing spend. To an extent, there is value in that. It will be about how much you value a luxury watch's 'status symbol-ness' vs. the value of the physical watch. For me, indies are where the watch market is going in the next decade and where the cool stuff is.

https://youtu.be/Aq9ckaTx_Vs

A luxury item that is priced at cost+ isn't really a luxury, it's a commodity. There are many strategies to use for setting the prices on goods and commodities and I never heard yet of any luxury being sold to the masses.

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Rolex is recognizable by everyone so you’re paying a premium for brand name (I guess similar case with pretty much any luxury good: shoes, handbags, glasses, etc.)

Other contributing factors from my perspective are media hype and “watches as investment” type of thing. Whenever someone talks of investing in watches - mostly they think of Rolex

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