Rolex is not part of the Holy Trinity...not even close!

I've fine with VC and PP, but I take AP out and put in ALS.

Uh… 1) GS, 2) GS, 3) Seiko.

You mean 1) GS, 2) Credor, 3) (King) Seiko? 😂

Agree - except they are not Swiss. If it was the top three from any country that could be an interesting and potentially divisive discussion. Top marks to ALS.

How did I know that would be your response. You wouldn't have much competition if it was what were the top Japanese watchmakers...uh, Seiko, Seiko, Seiko...

You are spot on. The idea of the trinity concept is the oldest, finest watchmakers in the land. While I have no issue being a Rolex fan, they are not that. They make really nice tool watches, though the new 1908 is knocking at the door. Still, when talking heritage the other options cannot touch A, with a huge caveat that Breguet belongs in the discussion and there are numerous Breguets I would own over any AP. I said it, come at me AP fans. Breguet has a far richer history and a longer track record, where as AP is the Royal Oak. Heck, I will confidently put Chopard above them as well.

All the other watches are fine watchmakers, but for one reason or another do not have the same heritage as the the ones mentioned. IE, Zenith, awesome brand, but for the longest time were more movements than watches. Blancpain? They are the oldest right? Well they went out of business for a while before the rights were acquired, so they get the axe. Journe, Dufour, Ferrier, Voutilaninen, Parmigiani? I will gladly take any in my collection over an AP, but lack the heritage for the concept of trinity.

Now if heritage was not a factor? Patek, Breguet, and Journe for me, with VC not far off.

Excellent points. Sadly AP has become the Royal Oak...too much of a good thing.

One of my favorites which I did not include because they are now under the Montblanc brand is Minerva. Founded in 1858 and the quality of chronographs equal or excel Patek.

Just recently visited the Atelier and it was truly a wonderful visit.

I hear you on Minerva, though I am happy with what Montblanc has been putting out, though I fear most will not get over a pen company making watches.

Where’s JLC?

Sorry - oversight. Should have placed them with Blancpain and Breguet. That would have been a better combination.

Unfortunately, JLC has become the Reverso company much like AP has become the Royal Oak.

Huge fan of JLC...

Hahaha i was just joking😬 Your post your rules! I get what you meant when you’re saying JLC is reverso and AP is Royal Oak.

I feel for this brands to have an iconic design shows how far they have come till today and to keep that particular collection for such a long period of time. Kudos to all designers and engineers that made our watch collecting journey fun and exciting!

Ooo interesting……

Just purely answering the question I’d perhaps choose D.

If I could chop and change it a little - modern day:

•Philippe Dufour

•Laurent Ferrier

•Parmigiani Fleurier

If I could do it purely based on history:

•Patek Philippe

•Vacheron Constantin

•Breguet

If I could base it on purely technical / movement prowess it would perhaps be:

•JLC

•Zenith

•Parmigiani Fleurier

Personally…I don’t think a holy trinity exists anymore because there are so many incredible independent watchmakers now that one could argue are perhaps a tier higher than PP/AP/VC..

You’ve mentioned a couple already, but I actually consider these a tier above:

•Laurent Ferrier

•Philippe Dufour (Perhaps one of the greatest living watchmakers ever)

•Greubal Forsey

•FP Journe

•Jaquet-Droz

Swiss made: only 60% of the watch is usually made in Swiss, the rest of from China. Where as for something to be stamped Made in Japan or Made in the USA it needs to be 100% Japan or USA made. So. Flame me all you want.. but I don't have much respect for "made in Swiss".

According to a screaming British guy online, you forgot about Casio.

Does it really matter when Rolex makes more money than all of three of the "holy trinity" combined?

Sales revenue of the leading luxury watch brands worldwide in 2022 (in million U.S. dollars)

Source: Statista.com

Since Rolex is a not-for-profit company, which, apparently, doesn't have to disclose its financials in Switzerland, I have no clue what they do with all that money.

EDIT: I am wrong on the not-for-profit part. Please read @Catskinner 's comment few comments down.

Oh how I wish Minerva is around as a stand alone brand and for that matter wish some one would pick up the Universal Geneva brand from the current owner and bring it back to its glory days - I remember back in the day it was UG vs Rolex - with UG surpassing Rolex sometimes with their models - Compax line

https://www.universalgenevecompax.com/universal-geneve-compax-gallery

Thanks - not my scratches and nicks - it actually is in much better shape than the photo would make it appear. The bright light is very unforgiving. I am super careful with my watches, but have to live with the experience others who owned them before me put them through.

The Olimpico is NOS so it should look cleaner than the 1972 4210 SA. Both are running the Valjoux 23 - so really excellent movement in each of them. Both of them are also on their original signed bracelets.

Oh yes! I was hoping someone would mention the amazing UG. Such an incredible watch brand with magnificent catalogue of references. Why, oh why, have they not been resurrected again.

Here are a few of the ones in my collection (haven't got wrist shots for all of them yet)...note the Berthoud which was a sister brand of UG...

There are a couple of fantastic books on UG...

Still need to add some of the amazing chronographs from UG in the 1960s...

BTW - I just had the chance to visit the Minerva Atelier during Watches & Wonders last month.

It was pretty fantastic...here are a few shots from the tour...

Man the 4th pic the tri compax white dial, screw down pushers , with every 5 mins markers in red - stunning such excellent tastes and eye you have.

Didn't UG back in the day use to make co branded watches - like for those sport brands and mens clothing stores etc in the 1950/60s you would receive a catalogue and mail in your order - or maybe I thinking of another brand!

I heard that the guy that relaunched Nivada Grenchen - tried to get UG to bring them back to life but the current owners won't sell. Such a shame u look at UG website now and the stuff they sell - shoot me please!

Thanks for the kind words!

That tri compax was one of the first attempts to revive UG in 1980 (reference: 884.420 running the UG 84 which is the Lemania caliber 1873). I was able to pick it up in NOS condition with full box and papers. It is a beauty.

For what it's worth, my local watchmaker would rate current Rolex about the Trinity in terms of build quality. He's told me that he's fixed VC movements and their parts are fragile. Often break as he works on them. He's a Hungarian watchmaker with over 50 yrs experience. He says Rolex is built like a tank. I attribute that to Rolex making gobs of money and having great resources in R&D.

If you've seen my recent video about a visit to a VC boutique, I would agree with him.

Hublot is the drunken bastard half prince whose proposed status is high and costs the realm a great deal but whose quality isn’t there.

Jacob & co is the court entertainer who together with van cleef and arpels create magic which very few but the mad take seriously.

Richard mille is the brilliant criminal who belongs in the darkest dungeon 🤣

I guess I'm not in the know, what do you mean?

Sorry just a snarky comment…once Roger Dubuis left the company which is named after him, the quality of the watches and designs markedly declined. Most RD watches post RD sell for a fraction of their list price… usually up to 80% discount. Thus the nickname “Dubious”. Apologies if I offended.

Oh no, no offense taken. I was genuinely curious, I don't own any higher-end brands like that, so I didn't know any of this and hadnt researched the brand beyond a passing interest in the designs. Interesting to know.

Rolex has to be apart of the convo

No matter how much better some independents may be, the holy trinity will forever be AP, PP and VC.

Funny you did not include Jaeger Lecoultre. I do not think they are Holy Trinity… but still if you have a list, considering they made movements for like all the 3 and almost purchased PP and chose not too (big mistake btw)

Yes - you are correct.

That oversight was pointed out earlier in the thread, and I agree it was a pretty big miss.

Although, not sure it would have made a significant difference in the outcome.