Entry Level Rant
Heard someone describe a Tudor BB58 as entry level, and it’s driven me nuts and now I need to write nothing more than a rant.
But is it just me that hates the term “entry level” for watches.
To me, the term "entry-level" in watches is problematic because it implies that a certain level of quality or prestige is only achievable at higher price points, which is not true. It also suggests that those who buy “entry level” watches are beginners or have a lower level of knowledge or interest in watches.
It’s problematic because it can lead to an elitist attitude within the community (something I assume we’re against) where those who own more expensive or prestigious watches are seen as "better" or more knowledgeable than those who own “entry level” watches. Additionally, some “entry level” watches can still be quite expensive, which may not be accessible to everyone (Rolex OP as “entry level” anyone…?).
Google entry level watch and see what gets suggested to you…
Instead of using the term "entry-level," should we not use terms like “entry point” to describe watches that are the most “affordable” in a brand. We can also use terms like "introductory" to describe watches that are suitable for those who are new to collecting watches or showing an interest.
I don’t know, maybe I’m just being picky over nothing, but our choice of terminology should focus on inclusivity and accessibility, rather than creating hierarchies or excluding certain groups of people based on their level of knowledge or budget.
I remember when I first started paying attention to watches that I was almost put off by the term, and in my opinion the more the merrier in this weird (and expensive) hobby we all have.
Shameless watch nerd | Australia
Snobbery, gatekeeping, elitism, are all firmly entrenched in the watch world. Just ignore their noise and enjoy what you like, no matter the price or prestige others may attempt to withhold so they can maintain their sense of superiority.
This comes up from time to time, and I agree with your assessment. I suspect most of them don't intend to come across as elitist, or snobs, but have simply lost touch with the world outside their circle within hobby.
For your next rant you should try for a mid-tier luxury rant. Those are underrated.
I prefer the term poor man's Rolex.
More importantly, what is exit level?
I prefer the term poor man's Rolex.
More importantly, what is exit level?
If you ever find out, my wife would like to know and take notes.
There are so many nebulous terms in the English language and watch collecting is no exception. "Luxury", "Entry level", "Entry level luxury" and so forth. Getting agreement on them is impossible. No matter how many of us agree in this thread, some will not and there will be hundreds of others who aren't even in it. This is one of those things we all have to live with. As an engineer, who is used to terms having specific, well-defined meanings, it is a pet peeve but impossible to change. I've learned to live with it and you will too because that's how it is. Might as well try and change gravity. 😕
Usually there’s some context regarding what the particular thing is an entry point to. Not just in watches, but in numerous goods and even jobs.
If your collecting journey involves ADs and waitlists, a BB58 could be entry level. If your journey is more prime day sales and waiting for delivery from AliExpress, a BB58 is unobtainable grail.
We live in a multi tier society. Entry level for you may be grail level for me.
Here is THE definition of "entry level" car.
If anybody doesn't understand this basic fact...
Now... please click on the link to my shop, as I am an authorized dealer of over 50 luxury brands.
I prefer the term poor man's Rolex.
More importantly, what is exit level?
Exit level: The watch you buy that forces you into filing for bankruptcy and your wife says, "If you ever buy another watch again, I'm leaving!"
I love the BB58, but my wallet doesn't say that it's "entry" level ... and my wallet's boss in my household! LOL!! 😉
I totally agree with you. In my opinion we shouldn‘t put watches in different levels because of the price. I understand your rant.
Of course there are different level of quality’s. But that is an aspect of a watch. That does not rate the watch itself.
I think putting watches in different levels like entry, mid level and so on is dangerous. It can destroy the hobby and can result in watch snobbery. The hobby should be about the watch itself, not about external factors. To relate to your example. The BB58 is a 3000$ + watch. That is by no means a cheap watch. I think it’s only regarded as an entry watch by some people because Tudor is the „cheaper“ sister company of Rolex. So it’s cheap out of Rolex perspective but that is only relativ. Absolut it’s still a lot of money.
And why should a watch only be for beginners? Because of the price? Makes no sense to me at all. If you would think this way some guy with enormous experience but with a lower budget is a beginner and someone who has a lot of money is a serious collector? No that does not make any sense to me at all. No doubt there are watches that fit more situations, watches that are not so expensive and are easier to buy to get experience with watches. That are points that might be important for people that start this hobby. But that doesn’t do anything to the watch. The BB58 for example is a watch that fit many situations. A watch you can wear in any moment. A watch that can do it all. So that is an aspect why someone who starts watches and only has one watch might be more interested in this watch than in a fragile dresswatch. But like I said, it’s an aspect for someone but nothing that change the watch to a higher or lower level watch.
I think the term is a result of a misunderstanding in the first place and developed because of watch snobbery. Of course everybody has his or her own price range for watches. But that is personal and not related to the watches. But we need to take care that we still have respect for any watch. The term „entry-level“ has the risk of disrespecting watches in a certain way. And we should support this. I agree with @KristianG that most people aren‘t indend to „disrespecting“ certain watches. You can lose touch with the world outside of the hobby easily. Couldn’t agree more. But we don‘t need to support this and we can have an impact by not using this term without putting it in perspective.
I prefer the term poor man's Rolex.
More importantly, what is exit level?
It's like Pacman, once you gobble enough BB58 a new screen open and from there you can get to a secret exit level.
I have no idea what can be found there since I'm still stuck on the affordable luxury tier level.
"Affordable" "Entry level" "luxury".....all b*locks imho, it's dependant on disposable income surely. A BB58 is Luxury to me a shop assistant, a Grail level fantasy to someone living in a third world country,but a cheap toy to a millionaire.
Buy what you like & don't give a hoot about labels.
Somebody claiming that Tudor isn't entry-level luxury?
Also, in no way is any Tudor entry level, if you're paying 4 figures for what is ultimately a bit of jewellery (let's be honest, very few people need a watch anymore), then you're spending a lot of money already. I'm a student, with the disposable income that comes with, and for me Tudor watches are among my grails, the kind of watches I could only dream of having years down the line. Just watch snobs who want to impress other snobs and don't give a hoot about what watch it is, just how expensive the brand logo happens to be.
Entry level, as a concept, is bollocks. It’s a sliding scale for a start - I may earn £100k (I don’t!) so my available spend may be different to someone with a £25k income for starters. If you like a watch and can afford it without pushing your finances then get it. Is a Rolex Sub ‘better’ than a BB or a Pelagos? Possibly. Is it better than a Seiko diver - most likely. Does it matter if I love the Seiko or the Pelagos? Yes - more so than the brand or the price tag. Buy what you love. End of.
Personally I don’t think it’s used in a derogatory fashion within the community, and I have no problem with it; it certainly isn’t inferring that a watch is ‘cheap’ or ‘lacking in quality’. In my opinion it simply indicates the more affordable/less feature-filled watches within a brand’s catalog (as in, entry-level Rolex, or entry-level Omega, or entry-level Seiko). And in most serious enthusiast hobbies, beginner/entry level equipment is a thing. An entry level watch within a brand may not use its best movement, may not use prescious metals, may not be as highly specced, etc, and thus not be their flagship model. Does this extend across brands? That’s where it gets murkier: a flagship gold two-tone Tudor utilizes gold capping, where any two-tone Rolex uses solid gold for example; only specific flagship Omegas have precious metal markers versus every entry-level Rolex featuring precious metal markers — and yet we widely consider some watches from both brands to be peers; and then you get into artisanal work with high levels of meticulous hand finishing in brands like Romain Gauthier. There are ‘levels’ within this hobby (curse?) when considering from a performance or luxury point of view and, while it might not be as consistent when extended across brands, I think it most definitely applies when looking within a brand’s catalog — in that regard ‘Entry-level’ is not an exclusive term, not in my opinion, it’s a statement of fact. A Tudor is a fine watch, but it’s not a Rolex. A Seiko 5 is a fine watch, but it’s no Grand Seiko. That’s not to say you need a GS or Rolex — a Casio serves just as well, if not better than the highest end haute horlogerie. But once you choose to get into the illogical world of luxury items, yes, there’s levels to this.
To be honest, I see "entry level" purely as a marketing term, similar to a "basic package" when it comes to car trim levels. It really suggests a progression where there actually isn't one, or at least when it comes to customer-perceived value. I'm not saying that a more expensive watch can't be objectively better, but a categorization alone doesn't make it so.
A “Lange One” is regarded as entry level collecting ALS then all the way up to a Triple flyback perpetual calendar Chronograph . An SNK Seiko is entry level while a Credor is top level Seiko , its relatively dependant on your position of perspective and exposure. This is not the truth either its just one small sliver of perspective!
Well, a Saxonia is probably the entry level Lange, but point taken!
It’s all about scale as I’ve heard from Patek and Vasheron owners that Rolex is entry level. It’s all just wordplay - don’t let it get you down as with anything in life critics are a dime a dozen. Buy what you want and enjoy it because ultimately no one will care after one or two minutes but you have to look at your wrist and if you love what’s on it - you’ve have something that there is no level for !
"Affordable" "Entry level" "luxury".....all b*locks imho, it's dependant on disposable income surely. A BB58 is Luxury to me a shop assistant, a Grail level fantasy to someone living in a third world country,but a cheap toy to a millionaire.
Buy what you like & don't give a hoot about labels.
Honestly if that millionaire thinks a BB58 is a cheap toy then they've thrown all reason out the window. As much as I hate Mr. Wonderful when Teddy has him on (and people like him), at least even he's able to recognize quality and value at all levels. Being rich isn't an excuse for stupidity haha (of course that doesn't stop a lot of people from diving into the pool of stupid).
I'm not sure entry-point is that much different than entry-level. In any case, I don't see why people need to be offended by these kinds of label. I don't and probably will never own a "high-end" car--that's just not how I want to spend my money. Why should I feel bad that there's such a thing as "high-end" and "low-end"?
I believe you are absolutelly right! I also hate the term, I believe que everyone has a differente "entry level" and what can be super "affordable" for something could supouse breaking a bank for some others... what I enjoy about collecting watches (and i do not define myself as a collector) is "buy what you like (and can afford), and enjoy what there is to enjoy at different price points"
Cheers
Was told the same thing about my rolex explorer
I prefer the term poor man's Rolex.
More importantly, what is exit level?
Exit level is when you have a room full of Rolex-PP-Lange-etc. and suddenly develop an interest in vintage Timex.
I must admit I find the "levels" that people categorise their watches by are strange and more than a little subjective. I propose a more holistic scale as follows:
2, 7, 30, D
The first three numbers denote the amount of days that your wife will not talk to you following purchase. The "D" is divorce (obviously). There are drawbacks to this scale - financial impact becomes more of a driving force (one person's 2 might be a D for someone else). But if we can baseline the scale to the monetary cost of a new kitchen in your house, that will work for most people.
I’ve always understood “entry level” to be the lowest price point you can get into a brand. And I don’t consider the term to be a slight towards the brand or the buyer. An entry level Patek, Credor, VC, or ALS is well above the price point of an entry level Rolex, and a head of the cost of a “grail” Rolex steel sports watch as well.
So no,the BB58 is not “entry level” Tudor. I don’t know the model, but there is one that’s the least expensive Tudor - and there is the true Tudor “entry point.”
Entry point is a useful concept. The question a watch collector with $23k burning a hole in their pocket has to ask themselves is: if I could only have one, would I rather spend it on a have a grey market machine made Rolex or a new hand made ALS Saxonia Thin? There’s no right or wrong answer to the question, but it’s worth pondering.
Reminds me of Kevin O’Leary’s comment in a shopping video with Teddy Baldassarre that you can’t buy much for under $12K! 😝
Great rant , agree on all points. Also I am bothered by the "first watch" moniker. I have several watches and recently purchased a Seiko SNKL23 and a Casio A168, always wanted them not just as my first watches.
That first watch is the "Gateway" that leaves us living paycheck to paycheck🙄😂