Burning Question: What’s the deal with bad lume?
I don’t understand why all watches that have lume don’t have better lume. Sometimes people say it is because applying less lume is a cost-cutting measure. But how much can luminescent paint cost compared to what companies are charging for the watches? It boggles my mind. How hard can it be? Can anyone in the watch industry answer this question? Please enlighten me!
Pictured is the watch with the brightest lume in my collection: a Citizen (!) Promaster diver.
Let’s see your best lumeshots!
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Sometimes middle managers get bonuses for cost savings. Saving $50K on lume applications could net that manager a $5K bonus.
Check out the lume on a watch before you buy it if you can. If a watch has poor lume buy another watch
I love lume. Also, lume is overrated. 😂
Genuinely, this is a REALLY good question.
I can imagine that in certain applications, it makes more sense than others. Dive watches often have large indices that can be filled up with luminous material, etc., etc.
Nonetheless, one would think that if you’re going to have lume on the dial, why wouldn’t you use the brightest formulation available?
Genuinely, this is a REALLY good question.
I can imagine that in certain applications, it makes more sense than others. Dive watches often have large indices that can be filled up with luminous material, etc., etc.
Nonetheless, one would think that if you’re going to have lume on the dial, why wouldn’t you use the brightest formulation available?
Exactly!
I love lume. Also, lume is overrated. 😂
I have to agree.
I love lume too!! I want lume on my bracelets and straps!!…
I agree, it is a mixed bunch, regardless of the quality or "the brand". Here is a comparative lumeshot of 5 of my watches, from cheap beater to expensive pilot watch:
All shot in the same frame, and after charging them for 1 min. The first is of course my SKX, which is (and should be) the benchmark for all lume comparisons!.
One of the most salient questions on this site today!
Genuinely, this is a REALLY good question.
I can imagine that in certain applications, it makes more sense than others. Dive watches often have large indices that can be filled up with luminous material, etc., etc.
Nonetheless, one would think that if you’re going to have lume on the dial, why wouldn’t you use the brightest formulation available?
I’ve often wondered the same thing about Sapphire vs. Mineral watch crystals. Sapphire crystals on Ebay are like $5!
For me, lume is pretty much just an added plus when I’m watch shopping, since it offers me almost no practical utility other than maybe if I am at the movies, in which case I don’t need to know the exact time. For this reason lume is pretty much at the bottom of my shopping list when it comes to comparing watches.
Even things like over the top water resistance or crazy power reserves have practical uses, but bright, long-lasting lume just isn’t something a ton of people are going to care about or use anyways, so companies probably won’t put much thought into it.
Also, I hate to say it but I’m sure cost cutting is a factor as well, even though lume may be relatively the same price on the small consumer market, once everything is scaled up to the scales of these large watch producers, any cost difference will add up to something substantial. If Rolex makes a million pieces a year, citizen, seiko, orient have to be pumping out more, right?
An interesting analysis! The problem is that most of the time you won’t have a UV torch at hand, and so you won’t be starting with “full” lume. And so for watches with less-than-ideal lume, it’s probably not going useable in everyday cases, in my opinion.
Genuinely, this is a REALLY good question.
I can imagine that in certain applications, it makes more sense than others. Dive watches often have large indices that can be filled up with luminous material, etc., etc.
Nonetheless, one would think that if you’re going to have lume on the dial, why wouldn’t you use the brightest formulation available?
I wonder if it has anything to do with it being a time expensive process (if it is, I don't know). I've heard of lume being spoken of in terms of layers, so I wonder if this is a labor intensive process that actually is saving money by having less (or not, again dunno).
We need an industry insider on this one.
An interesting analysis! The problem is that most of the time you won’t have a UV torch at hand, and so you won’t be starting with “full” lume. And so for watches with less-than-ideal lume, it’s probably not going useable in everyday cases, in my opinion.
I've never found any of my "bad" lume watches to be lacking in the real world.
As @MegaBob said, lume just isn't that important in the grand scheme of things for most users. It's a nice to have, but adding the nice to haves to a watch can quickly cause the cost to spiral. Spec out a base car, then add all the nice to have options... You'll find that an "affordable" car quickly becomes very expensive, the same happens to watches.
For those that actually need lume, tritium or a backlight are the best bet.
Sometimes, I do like lume on the hands only, as long as the contrast and brightness is good enough to see them well. Generally though, if I want lume, I want, and get a lot. The Citizen with the blue case, below, has only the hands and some of the markers lumed, but is easy to read. Lume, in general is useful in the evening time, if you want to glow at 4 AM, tritium is the way to go, although it is much less bright overall than lume.
I think Panerai, particularly sandwich dials. But I could be totally wrong.
I think Lumibrite is Seiko's custom version of Luminova. Here's a great article for in-depth reading: https://www.keepthetime.com/blog/seiko-lumibrite/
I've heard more than a few people complain about Omega lume.
This is what the company says on the Omega website: "OMEGA uses Super-LumiNova material for the dials and hands of its watches. The Super-LumiNova material takes its luminosity from daylight or any artificial source of light. The watch should therefore be exposed to bright light in order to ensure the luminosity of the dial and hands in the dark. Please note that the intensity and duration of the luminosity may vary depending on the watch model, the colour of the Super-LumiNova material and the time of exposure to the source of light."
Oh, and out of curiosity, I checked eBay. Super-LumiNova prices aren't that cheap: https://www.ebay.com/b/superluminova/bn_7024917440
Again, you are the BEST!!!
I'd put it down to something really simple:
THEY DONT CARE ABOUT LUME!
As someone that doesn't care about lume I find this a pretty obvious and easy conclusion because if I were designing a watch lume would be on the list of things I guess I'll add because its expected but it wouldn't be a priority.
My guess is that for designers of watch with poor to average lume they just didn't care.
I honestly would buy a watch with indiglo. Remember indiglo? It would look like a bunch of fireflies in the movie theater from everyone checking their watch.
The lime on my $100 Vostok lasts longer and brighter than my $11k Rolex..But like.. who cares? It just isn‘t a die hard priority for me. I won’t not buy a watch because some keyboard warrior says the lume is crap.
To me, lume evokes a sense of childlike magic and wonder. The soft green glow brings back memories of twilight summer evenings, running through a grassy field, marveling at the fleeting bioluminescent glow as hundreds of lightning bugs mysteriously emerge to perform their twinkling light show.
But I bet that most consumers don’t care enough about lume to justify an increase in production costs for better lume performance.
Being a night owl, I find lume very useful in the late night hours. Plus I just enjoy the glow.
Being a nut for divers, I’ve got a lot of lumed watches. Sadly, the superluminova based watches are pretty underwhelming for lume.
Clear winner is my Prospex diver (Lumibright) is a functional flashlight and oh such a joy when you glance at the time when it’s dim or dark.
Whaoo, call this a hot topic !
Guys, let's face it . Lumes are nice for cool wristshots in the dark right after exposing your watch to bright sunshine for 15 minutes. But they are generally useless after 30 minutes, which is more than enough for a few brightly coloured IG posts. So why should brands bother too much ?
If you want a watch you can read at 2:30 in the morning, one way to go : Marathon Navigator
Agree with you.
The benefit vs the cost (real and marketing wise) of add a good Lume on watches is not comparable. As some already told, the dive watches are on the best level due to their need when using under the water. I have two Seiko Prospex and they have the best Lumes of my collection. I really don't Dive but I appreciate the ability to read the hour on dark places. In addition is very cool!
Lume is the vixen of grandiose promise…and the deliverer of dissipated dreams.
What stops me from buying a Grand Seiko is lack of lume on any of the watches I want (no lume on any GS watches except quartz or clunky watches in their Sports line and perhaps two JDM watches in their Heritage line). I wear watches when I sleep. Lume is super helpful.
Lovely photo of the "Excalibur" as it sometimes called 👍👍
Lume comes in various forms but I'll try to break it down as simple as possible and stick to Super-Luminova.
First of all, there's the Japanese Luminova (invented by Kenzo Nemoto in the 1990s) and the Swiss counterpart, Super-Luminova. It's actually the same product but a Swiss company called RC Tritec AG has the licensing rights to produce and distribute LumiNova under the registered name of Super-LumiNova.
Swiss watches will typically use Super-Luminova (to maintain that all-important Swiss-made label), and because it's Swiss, it's already more expensive.
As you may know, there are different lume colors:
Wavelengths of light range from about 400 nm at the violet end of the spectrum to 700 nm at the red end
Scotopic vision is the vision of the eye under low-light conditions, produced through rod cells. Rod cells are most sensitive to wavelengths of around 498 nm (blue-green) and are insensitive to wavelengths longer than about 640 nm (red-orange). This explains why most watch lume is blue or green.
Aside from color, there are different grades of Super-LumiNova
Of course, the higher the grade, the more expensive.
Then there are different methods to apply the lume to the watch, each with its own benefits, and costs.
Super-LumiNova is sold as a powder, which then has to be mixed with a binder before it's applied the watch dial--there are hundreds of different types of binders. Sometimes you want a thinner lume, which requires more liquid, thus less pigment. Sometimes you want thicker lume, which will result in more concentration in pigment.
In short, how lume glows on a watch depends on factors like color, grade, application process, and binders, which all have costs associated with them.
As some have mentioned, some watch brands don't really focus on lume, therefore will spend less in that department. Other companies like to show off how well their watches glow (e.g. Panerai) in the dark, therefore, will spend to achieve that. Plus, some watch brands like to customize their Super-LumiNova (eg Rolex's Chromalight), which will cost even more.
Hope this helps!
Wow!! Thank you so much for your knowledgeable response. I learned so much! Following you.
Wow!! Thank you so much for your knowledgeable response. I learned so much! Following you.
You‘re welcome! I love to share my nerdery 😉
I've been learning in the watchmaking craft for some time and in my view, it's not about the cost of the lume itself that's expensive, but time to apply it and have a good finish on them. Sometimes you have to do several applications of the lume, sometimes you can just apply a thick lume, but the finish might vary. So I think it's the process itself that's quite expensive. For a smaller volume product, this process might not be a big problem or is something that the manufacturer is willing to pay, but if it's a high volume product, that slight addition in manufacturing time will add up. Just my 2 cents.
You've got to love Citizen s and Planet Oceans...