Homages !?

Your opinion is wanted! What's your opinion on homages? Reasons to buy? Reasons to hate? Just cheap copies made by companies that want a piece of the cake? 馃

This is a pretty controversial topic. But here鈥檚 my opinion. I have no problem with what anyone else owns (as long as it鈥檚 not a straight up counterfeit). I find homages useful to test out a design or style before spending big money on a brand name. I did that with a Steinhart before buying a Tudor. Otherwise, I prefer to wear something with its own unique design elements rather than a blatant imitation of a popular design. There are so many interesting, original designs out there. But I won鈥檛 criticize anyone else鈥檚 choice.聽

I'm of the same opinion

If your budget won't let you stretch that far or you can't justify spending thousands on a single watch.. then why not

A homage collector could end up with a fine selection of "iconic looking" watches and get the same enjoyment as any other collection.聽

As previous poster said as long as there not fakes and conning people there fine with me

Personally I would rather have my collection of low to mid Japanese watches but each to their own

Simply put, if they aren't a fake (ie. have a false brand on the dial) have at 'er.聽

The reality is most people will not/can not spend $10K on a watch, so if they want a particular style of watch their only option is a homage(ie. copy). They are not hurting the original designer in any way, and are in fact paying homage buy imitating the design.聽

Personally I prefer watches that pay homage to designs by taking styling cues from a watch, and adjusting them to make something unique. There are only so many visually appealing ways to make three hands and a dial work, so inevitably all watches will look somewhat similar if they are going to be pleasing, and useable.聽

I find the watch world's obsession with "homages" kind of ridiculous, as it's often weaponized as a way to put down brands, or watches people don't like. It's also a great way to hide snobbery... I'm not a snob, but everything that isn't _____ is a homage of it.聽

very good question. firstly, what is a homage watch ? I have the casio duro (silver/black). Is it realy an hommage to the rolex submariner ? for me not, but objectivly I don't know.

Secondly, it depends on the person who will wear the homage watches. recently a friend consult me because he want too buy a dive watch (just the dive style, not necessarly the fonctionality) for an affordable price (200鈧 maximum). He is not into watches so the history of the brand is not important for him. I propose him two watches : the Orient kamasu (200鈧) and a homage rolex sub from Pagani Design with automatic seiko movement (90鈧). He finaly choose the Pagani Design and FOR HIM it was probably the best choice. I personnaly prefer the orient because the brand was important for me but obviously for my friend , pay 100鈧 more just for a brand name he doesn't know is not logic.聽

Do you think he made the good choice ?

Robinwatch

very good question. firstly, what is a homage watch ? I have the casio duro (silver/black). Is it realy an hommage to the rolex submariner ? for me not, but objectivly I don't know.

Secondly, it depends on the person who will wear the homage watches. recently a friend consult me because he want too buy a dive watch (just the dive style, not necessarly the fonctionality) for an affordable price (200鈧 maximum). He is not into watches so the history of the brand is not important for him. I propose him two watches : the Orient kamasu (200鈧) and a homage rolex sub from Pagani Design with automatic seiko movement (90鈧). He finaly choose the Pagani Design and FOR HIM it was probably the best choice. I personnaly prefer the orient because the brand was important for me but obviously for my friend , pay 100鈧 more just for a brand name he doesn't know is not logic.聽

Do you think he made the good choice ?

In my opinion he took the right one. 100鈧 is a lot of money. And in comparison the PD should perform the same as the Orient.聽

Also a reason why I started this topic is the Rolex Explorer II and it's homage (or clone) from Pagani Design.聽

What do you think? Dirty copy or morally justifiable?聽

I look at watches as art, each brand should bring something to the table in the way of design, movement technology or technique, or even something new in the way of materials.

If all you bring is a copy of someone else's work than, to be harsh, you are useless to me. Price doesn't matter, a freestyle shark or Timex Q bring a design to the table.聽

Homages are a copy of someone else's art with a different signature, basically a forgery.

I get it sometimes but it's not my thing. I also tend to be pretty ambivalent towards the original watches. I prefer a new, more creative design even if I'm spending big money on something from a well-known brand

KoenigPersoenlich

In my opinion he took the right one. 100鈧 is a lot of money. And in comparison the PD should perform the same as the Orient.聽

Also a reason why I started this topic is the Rolex Explorer II and it's homage (or clone) from Pagani Design.聽

What do you think? Dirty copy or morally justifiable?聽

The first rule of watch collecting is; don't worry about what other people think about your watches.聽

If you like the Pagani, and you can afford it, buy it.聽

That said, the second rule of watch collecting is; nobody else cares what you are wearing.聽

So if you are buying it to look like you have a Rolex, you're wasting your cash. 聽

KristianG

The first rule of watch collecting is; don't worry about what other people think about your watches.聽

If you like the Pagani, and you can afford it, buy it.聽

That said, the second rule of watch collecting is; nobody else cares what you are wearing.聽

So if you are buying it to look like you have a Rolex, you're wasting your cash. 聽

By the same logic, I'm NOT wasting my cash, since no one cares what I'm wearing on my wrist.

Jojocruz

By the same logic, I'm NOT wasting my cash, since no one cares what I'm wearing on my wrist.

Maybe I wasn't clear, I was trying to be concise, and might have cut too much.

Buying a watch to impress people is a waste of money, because nobody actually cares what you are wearing. So buying a watch that looks like a Rolex, to convince people you have a Rolex from a distance, is a waste of money.聽

Honestly, I've come to the point where "homage" is just a bastardized word and lost it's meaning. Paying "homage" to something means showing respect and I doubt anyone here can argue that those watches do so; 99% of those watches are rip-offs. They aren't "fakes" because they don't have the brand name on it, but it is more often than naught a carbon copy of something else.

If you compare this space to another, take cars for instance, it is much easier to see what an "homage" truly is - design is definitely copied but so is the passion - from the internals to the feeling the driver experiences. There are very few watches that pay homage to something properly, usually it's just to make a cheap and quick buck because it looks like a Rolex Submariner. Most of those companies don't even have a design language of their own. If it's done right, like Zero West's homages, the watch isn't just copying another design but using it as an opportunity to showcase an event or an idea.聽

All that being said, it's all about honesty. I'm not offended if you choose to wear one, it's not my wrist. It's just a shame most people fool themselves when it's something they could have worked and saved for to get what they really wanted.

KristianG

Maybe I wasn't clear, I was trying to be concise, and might have cut too much.

Buying a watch to impress people is a waste of money, because nobody actually cares what you are wearing. So buying a watch that looks like a Rolex, to convince people you have a Rolex from a distance, is a waste of money.聽

  • If I buy a Rolex to impress other people, I just wasted my money.聽
  • If I buy a Pagani Daytona because I just like the look of it, it is not a waste of money.聽

I actually made a post on this a little while ago, but the word homage is overused, and often conflated with what really is a "clomage" or a legal clone (because generally, only actual logo's are trademarked/copyrighted/patented), which would be where your Pagani falls.

An homage usually refers to a watch that clearly takes elements from another watch, and then creates something new (a Casio Duro is an homage of Rolex Sub). The Parnis/Pagani/San Martin/ etc... are all clones, often called clomages, as they make zero innovation. They simply make a watch as close to the target as legally possible.

To that end, I did want to call out the replica/fake/counterfeit issue, as many people seems to be A-OK with a clomage, but treat the unlicensed, and therefore illegal, replica as the devil, but I will give credit to those who seem to levy a fair amount of the hatred towards clomages as well: I appreciate that consistency. I say that because, legality aside, from a strictly ethical and objective standpoint, there is little difference between a straight up Replica/fake and a clomage that slaps its own logo on an otherwise 99% copied watch. If your watch looks like a Rolex to someone who actually owns one from 3 feet away, I fail to see what difference it makes what tiny logo is on the dial. Either way, your watch is designed to look like the genuine, and the design is ripped off from said genuine.

And a note on the term counterfeit: that is not what counterfeit means. If you clone a design, trademarked logo included, that is copyright violation, a civil crime with civil liability, NOT counterfeit. The term counterfeit means "to replicate with intent to deceive and defraud," which is very much fraud, a criminal offense punishable by jail time. The two are not the same. The vast majority of replica watches are built to be close replicas sold at a tenth the cost with full disclosure that they are not genuine. And you actually can find that practice despicable, and levy unbridled hatred towards the offenders, WITHOUT accusing them of a crime they did not commit. The argument of copying being unethical should stand on its own without having to make shit up.

But finally, to answer your actual question, wear whatever you want, and don't worry about what other people think. I couldn't care less whether you buy a Rolex, a San Martin, or some knockoff. You should wear what you want, and maybe not lose too much sleep over what other people think OR what Rolex's financials are; I promise you, Rolex isn't losing a statistically relevant amount of business to the clomage or the Replica/fake market.聽

My one word of caution is: be careful about trying to replace what you really want with a cheaper alternative, because clomages often do not satiate that desire. It's one thing to want a half million dollar tourbillion, but if it's a $10k Rolex you are after, the clomage may not do it for you, and if you keep obsessing, you will eventually strive for that Rolex anyway. That said, clomages are often a gateway into watch enthusiasm, often leading people to strive for, and eventually obtain the very grail they originally bought a clomage of, ironically making the clomage the very thing that made the sale for Rolex... So, in my opinion, ignore all the "ethics" comments, as it's kind of a bullshit argument, with little evidence that anyone is actually losing any money.

I buy quite a few homages. But not because they are homages. And not Rolex homages, because I rarely like the Rolexes in the first place - their style is not my thing. Mostly, I want an affordable well-made watch with good spec that looks nice. Sometimes, I find out later that they are homages, sometimes they are not or only take a few style clues. So what, it's like a supermarket's own brand that is made to look like another product. Not paying for marketing is a win-win for me.

There is an element of social disdain that goes both ways. The presence of the (especially, cheap) homage is a threat for the people buying an expensive watch as a status symbol [well, mostly Rolex, because of brand recognition], and their wearers are plebs who do not know their place. From an homage wearer's POV the originals' price is 1% watch and 99% status symbol, laughing at people spending that much on status just like the child laughed at the emperor's new clothes.

All that talk about heritage, and "original art", is social gatekeeping, protecting the status symbol. That does not mean this analogy is inappropriate. It is very appropriate, the art market itself has an obsession with attributing art to artists that is all about protecting market value, protecting status.

Yes, there's "finishing", but there we are moving into the world of jewlry, since very little of it has anything to do with the watch's functionality.

If you buy a Pagani because you want a watch that looks like a Rolex then this may not scratch your itch, because you probably want the statussymbol just as much as the watch. If you want the complications and find the overall style of the original pleasing then it will scratch your itch. Just be honest with yourself what you really want.

I have no interest on whether or not people notice what I am wearing on my wrist. I wear my watches because I like them. Ditto, my socks. No one notices those, either.

I have no desire to own a high end watch - even if I could afford one. I do like well made homage watches. They are often beautiful to look at and often have a Seiko movement. I choose to buy 'inexpensive' watches because they give me great pleasure. It is interesting to note that the idea of 'inexpensive', in this case, carries some negative connotations. Inexpensive when compared to what? Ditto, 'affordable' watches. Why not just 'watches'?

Drawing on the inspiration of others is all around us. A shortlist of things that draw on the design of similar things might be: art, music, writing, 聽furniture, buildings, cars, clothes and so on. Watches can be added to that list. Breaking copywrite is against the law but being inspired by others is not.聽

If you really support the idea of 'buying what you like and enjoy', then be unconditional about it. Really mean it. The watch collecting community should have the grace and generosity to accommodate everyone.