Does The Watch World Need A Rock Star Designer?

Great read. I work in the furniture industry, and it is very important to know the designer, their inspirations and their process when considering a piece beyond just its function. If a chair has four legs, a back and seat and costs $1000, why buy it vs an offering at $80? Surely their are the cold hard facts of raw materials and labor, but value at higher price points is increasing linked to the romance and stories behind those more expensive products which elicit an emotional response. The devil is in the details, and the designer is ground zero for those details.

So, yes, the industry would benefit IMO.

One, thanks! Two, excellent point, I did not even consider furniture even though there are some legendary designers there too. Thanks for adding that.

I must be an absolute heretic, but even as a supposed "nerd" in several areas, I have no clue about designers, artists, creators, etc.

• I love cars, but if you held me by a thread above a vat of acid, and threatened to drop me in unless I named a famous car designer... I think my only answer would be "Henry Ford - he designed the Model T, right?"

• I love comic books, but if you put my head in a vise and threatened to spin tighten the handle until my eyes popped out (like in Casino), the best I could do is say, "Uh... didn't Stan Lee like do lots of cameos in movies?"

• I love my iPhone, but... who the f*ck is Jony Ive???

Same with watches, man! I know nothing about the design, other than if I think a watch looks cool or not!

I must be an utter heathen!

I'm glad we don't have 'rock star' designers in watches, to be honest.

That sort of thing creates cults of personality, and creates real wankers.

The status quo is great for me.

Also let's not overuse 'rock star': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ID-1mzRAew

I kid, you are still my long lost west coast brother, but that is some funny stuff. Part of the post was an attempt to bring attention to designers. Folks love Steve Jobs, but others could reasonably argue without Ive, Apple could have easily been iOmega or Palm Pilot.

I would think with comics, you would have picked up on a couple of those names on the front no? Frank Miller? Alan Moore? Ditko? Alex Ross? Help me out here!? :-)

You are not wrong, there was a specific reason I used the image in the header for illustration. 😉

Regarding cult of personalities, I think that is a separate issue with ties to the bandwagon effect. WAY too many people associate their person with a brand choice. As if their choice to not use an Apple product is part of their identity. Any slight against their brand loyalty seems like a personal attack.I understand brand appreciation, but I will never get brand fanaticism or anti-brand fanaticism.

As for names; I've noticed most of my favorite shoes I wear were designed by Steven Smith (New Balance 997, 999, and 1500). And my Master Grade Gundam Wing Zero Endless Waltz Version Hajime Katoki was designed by... Hajime Katoki. Other than that, a la @HotWatchChick69 I can't really name many designers things I have.

I do have a watch from Jochen Benzinger, but it has Breguet inspired characteristics so I wouldn't call it a 100% original design, nor modern since these designs date back centuries. I do prefer the case shape over the Breguet Classique, and have infinite admiration for the craftsmanship, thus it is still my favorite watch in my collection.

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Overall, I have lots of respect for designers who've made watch designs that push the envelope, yet retain enough classical design to be wearable every day. My favorite so far in this category is the Minase Divido 2.0, but the no-date variant I crave is faaar outside my current price range.

Overall, I really like some of the unique designs smaller brands have been coming out with recently, and dislike about the remaining 80%. However, even if I don't like the design I have much respect for someone's endeavor in a new direction.

In a world of brands, designers, and fashion conglomerates, (some will empty wallets for garbage if it has a designer name attached), I don't think we need currently famous designers in other industries shifting their vision to watches. In my opinion, I would rather see the community lift up existing artisens and hype up new watch styles, than try to bring in designers from other industries.

I love Max’s stuff, so that’s a good analogy. And many of the the high end Swiss micros I think have cult like (super rich) fans but aren’t even well known with watch nerds

I’ve gone down that same rabbit hole with the bishop - kudos!! New old stock for a few hundred bucks?! It’s from an iconic designer and movie, will remain known to some of us

Excellent reply with some solid names. I too do not think we need designers from other industries jumping in. I do not need to see another Giugiaro entering the field or “<generic brand> X <person we do not give a turd about>” design. In fact if we can stop the whole “X” collaboration branding, I would be okay with that.

My curiosity stems from there not being a personality in the watch world that seems to extend beyond the niche fans. We seem stuck since Genta.

It seems the most accessible of the quirky Seikos. I really want to get my hands on a Discus Burger and perhaps the original Kinetic Chrono, but even I have an issue paying the premium that chrono is going for. Then again, it was almost $2K new in 1999, so I suppose it is not totally out of line.

Gosh that is an annoyingly relatable point. When I was 18ish I asked my mom for a jacket that was "generic" X "who?" because I thought the whole X thing was cool. It wasn't. It was also my only rain jacket, so it saw lots of wear in wet weather that would've been better seen by a normal rain jacket. Either that trend is on the decline, or I'm becoming increasingly out of touch, but I'm glad.

I agree about being stuck since Genta, but I think it's magnified by the wealthier folks and musicians putting more focus on the Royal Oak and Nautilus in the past decade or so. Correct me if I'm wrong, since I was a total dumbass pre-2010 (I was a kid, aka dumbass), but I don't remember hearing/seeing much about watches other than Rolex growing up, let alone knowing who Gerald Genta was. I feel like social media and flex culture really elevated both watches and Genta's name in the current day, as everyone is quick to show off their Nautilus/Royal Oak (tho folks seem hesitant to show off their Gerald Genta Mickey Mouse Jump Hours 🤔🤔🤔).

I also agree about this being a very interesting discussion, since we have an oxymoron of needing a strong designer in the industry, while also disregarding 'hype' designers. Though if a watch designer branches into other industries, I might find myself paying attention and falling into the trap.

I think I'm going to cut my rants and rambles off, but I look forward to seeing what others have to say.

Maybe all we need is a pair of Kari Voutilainen Air Jordan 1s? 🤷‍♂🤷‍♂🤷‍♂

(Also, as an amendment to my previous comment, I remembered Piet Parra designed all of my favorite shirts. If he designs a watch, it might find its way into my watchbox and make my previous points somewhat hypocritical)

Other than the watch people you mentioned I have no idea who these guys are.

Maybe it's me but I think designers are just know to hard-core enthusiasts and even then not all of them.

It’s probably best not to have a rock star designer. Too many eggs in one basket is not a good way to go. Ask Adidas and they’ll give you 2 billion reasons not to get in bed with a Kanye West…

That is fair as it relates to Adidas. For this conversation, I did not mean literal rock star, but actual watch designer who transcends the industry to household name.

Do not worry, we all have self contradicting comments, that makes us human.

I do not mind collabs, but can do with out the silly X branding. You are not wrong about the idea of Genta. While he had his influence for a long time, it really was not until the last 10-15 years that his two famous watches took off.

Darn it, now I kind of want to know how he would design some Jordan 1s!

I do not know what that celeb designer would look and feel like. In many cases they are celebs in their own right. People want the design, or know that they like a particular look and design aesthetic. Going back to Peter Schreyer. People loved the TT. And similar folks had no idea he was at Kia and all the sudden, “What is this Kia Stinger?” A RWD twin turbo v6 sports car by Kia in the age of SUVs? Not knowing it is the same designer, yet drawn to the language.

I think no matter the design all watches should be able to be reasonably reached but who am I 🤷🏾

I think the confluence of social media and cancel culture have ruined this. You can't put all your eggs in the basket of a creative freethinker that you allow out in public, as he (well, maybe she?*) has about zero chance of maintaining an impeccable record of not saying anything that will ruffle someone's feathers.

* Oops, that would have been enough to end any design career I'd have had.

The big issue is that brands dont want the distraction from them. Look at Genta for example - he did a great design for AP, fantastic, but then he did a great design for their arch rival and Patek gets away with it because they hired the same guy.

That said I think there are a couple of designers that are worth following and emplyed by brands confident enough to let them share some spotlight.

The first is Fabrizio Buonamassa Stigliani from Bulgari - legend.

The other is Sylvain Berneron creative director at Breitling but also being supported in getting his own watch brand up and running.

My favorite watch in your post is that big red Italian one with the four bezels in front. I can't put my finger on it but it has kind of an industrial, maybe even automotive style. Even though it would be kind of large, I would wear that on my wrist right now.

This post definitely strikes a chord in me! Thanks for throwing this out there. A few things come to mind, none of which are really organized so I'll be spitballing here.

1. Let's start with Genta. A legend that was fully immersed in the Swiss watchmaking industry at a very young age. I believe his story has a lot to do with being at the right place and the right time. That's not to diminish his work by any means as his work speaks for itself. However, he was a unicorn in the right environment and was great at disrupting the traditional watch design language with more interesting shapes and concepts. That was a whole different time in the industry where I believe watches were viewed more as pieces of art and not about mass consumption. I'll try to connect this point in a second.

2. I studied industrial design and my first job was at Movado as an assistant watch designer. I had little to no knowledge about watches, but immediately fell in love when I entered that world. I had the privilege of studying under the Swiss designers in La Chaux-de-fonds and it was an unbelievable experience. Although they were employed by a large watch group in the States, the culture and ideology was just different in Switzerland. Besides learning how to design a watch, I learned how to appreciate the art of designing a watch. I then worked on over 15 different licensed watch brands under the Movado and Fossil Groups, and was recruited in-house to help launch any new brands due to my skillset and experience. I also worked with many other trained watch designers just like me.

3. Now to try and connect points 1 and 2, I think the biggest difference from my experience is marketing. Unlike Genta, who was more of a contract designer for these large brand (I know he launched his own brand as well), designers like myself working in today's world just don't get the credit. The designer just doesn't get the recognition. The face of the watch brands are VP's of sales or marketing or brand ambassadors. We live in a world of consumption and the romantic story about a watch being designed is unfortunately lost. I cannot speak for designers who either contract or are employed by luxury Swiss brands, but I can safely assume it's very similar. I think marketing for status and ROI has gotten in the way of highlighting the amazing designers out there. It's not they don't exist. They just aren't recognized.

4. Which is why I started Jack Mason. I wanted full autonomy on design and brand. However, I fell victim to my own thoughts regarding this because I was so used to doing it a certain way. It wasn't until recently I've been putting my face on the brand more across our channels, and while it's super uncomfortable, it's equally fulfilling. Being recognized for the wins and losses is ultimately a driving force to wanting to be better. I've never had any job outside of designing watches and it truly feels like I'm just getting started and am excited for the future!

I want to add something to Peter's (@TimeToDesign) comments above. When he worked for the big boys he was a cog in the machine. He was in the wrong place, maybe the wrong time.

I opine frequently that I think the high point of watch design was the two decades after the Second World War. If you go and look at the back catalogues of the watch companies that survive you will see many mistakes and misfires in those years. The industry was smaller and not every watch launch seemed to be do or die. They took chances. After quartz thinned the herd the companies started to move more incrementally. We blame Rolex for always playing their greatest hits, but they survive and thrive. Mido's Commander is essentially the same design as it was in 1959. The cost for failure became too high.

That is why the movement in design in the microbrand space. There is risk in merely being in business. Not getting noticed is fatal. So, they can experiment.

Also, the big brands are bigger. When Genta designed the Polerouter how many people had to sign off before it was sent into production, one? How many people have to sign off before Certina releases a diver?

Dr. Ludwig Oechslin, not only creates beautiful watches but simple and clever too. Ochs und junior, love all their watches. Just wish I could afford one.

Peter, I appreciate you taking the time to read this and weigh in. Unlike my outsider speculation, you have first-hand experience and I hope this community appreciates it.

Genta is a good parallel to Giugiaro in that they were the same generation and worked for multiple companies making a name for themselves along the way. I know automotive is an easy comparison, but to me it seems sad the best watch designers do not get the same attention as a Carroll Shelby, Ian Callum, etc. That world seemed to produce countless designers that are well-loved in the hobby and most are household names, especially for the Top Gear generation.

Totally appreciate and agree with what you and others are saying about marketing. For many it is brand first and the designers simply are not getting the love. It also, logically, explains why many leave those houses to start their own shop.

I value that you are putting your face out there and you and others at JM are connecting with the community. I for one am looking forward to what you are doing and am still waiting to hand you my credit card for my WC collab!

Thanks for chiming in Greg, as always love the input. I make no secret about my love affair with the micro space, even if I have many big house brands. These smaller micros and independents have a vision and find ways to make it happen. Even someone like Weiss, who worked for VC, seeing him Peter, and others start their own is inspiring. It is a shame many of them are not more popular outside of the enthusiast crowd.

Absolutely. I think the space has an overabundance of talented designers at many price points.

Thank you! I really appreciate that. WC info coming in a couple of weeks!

Taro Tanaka and the now famous Seiko "Grammar of Design" program. When you love that GS on your wrist you can thank Taro and see how his influence has continued to present day.

To your point, I think the fact that every watch company seems to be dinging into their old catalogs and producing modern versions says the current designs are a bit stale…Designers (automotive or other) today are so controlled by the bean counters (minus a few examples) they don’t have full creative power…isn’t this the freedom we always say microbrands have? I think a collab with a designer would be great as long as the watch conpany has the say on mechanical specs.

BTW the watch design is fantastic!

Thank you for posting, it's an unusual one. I say no. The watch world just needs good designers. There now is such a thing as a "watch world" because when I grew up, the watch world was the whole world. Everybody really needed a watch. I loved watches as a child because I had one, and I had one because I needed one. Families with 6 or 7 kids could afford a watch for every one of them (Hail Timex!). Now, no one "needs" a watch, but we watch lovers still have our subculture. And as far as I'm concerned, "Watch World" designers don't have to venture into the Rest of the World anymore at all. I'm not even sure they have to be very well known in the watch world. Take for example Wing Liang. He is the one-man designer/CEO of Aragon. Aragon has very little presence on this site. They've been in business for years, they seem pretty much under the radar, and while I'm glad to raise a little awareness for Wing and his watches, I would bet anyone a giant burger that he couldn't care less about stardom in the outside world or even the watch world. He wants to bring his original designs to life, make enough $$$ to turn a profit, and that's that. Those are the kind of designers we need.

The independents and microbrands are usually individual designers, or small team with a Name lead. Just that "rock star" and "watch design" might be a bit mutually exclusive right now. As gen pop, and you'd probably get more people asking about who designed the Apple Watch, "because them!" than any watch designer, ever.

I do find it funny that there are a few Genta designed watches, which go for considerably more than an actual Genta brand watch. Speaking of which, there are some fun and reasonable deals to be had. Genta designed the Omega Polaris line, the one with the inlaid cases? Quartz and small, no longer darlings of the watch collecting world, they are a relative Big Name bargain. Like those Seiko models from the OP.