Thoughts on Grand Seiko and public perception
As a relatively young brand, Grand Seiko‘s brand value is still developing, but where do you place them in the luxury watch space? Does brand recognition matter vs quality and enthusiast appreciation?
I feel like they’re in the conversation with Omega and Tudor, but only in the enthusiast space. If you were to wear a Snowflake and a SMP300 in public, no one would have an appreciation for the GS. (Though arguable same could be said of Tudor in gen-pop.)
I know you buy a watch for yourself, but truthfully it’s kind of cool when people recognize what’s on your wrist.
Do you think GS will ever reach the same heights in public perception as they do in the enthusiast crowd?
Casual collector falling steadily down the rabbit hole. Fan of interesting dials and watches I can tell stories about.
I honestly hope that the GS brand never achieves any kind of public awareness. I don't want muggles to notice / care / recognize what I have on my wrist. Because muggles are unwashed, and uncouth!
[My reaction were a muggle to approach me to ask about my watch]
As far as I can tell, the public is aware of only 3 brands:
[Here they are, I think, at the World Ping Pong Championships]
Today, when people ask, "What's that watch?" I always say, "Oh, it's a Seiko." End of conversation. If, for some god-forsaken reason, one day every random Joe knows what a Grand Seiko is, I'm burning my godd*mn collection, and buying a brand nobody would ever recognize... maybe Junghans or Glashuette Original?
i dont think so, if there are "seiko" logo on it people will relate it to the ordinary seiko watch. of course except the true enthusiast
Good question and I would argue many enthusiasts do not know much about GS too and consider them just another Seiko. For example, they are not that young brand as they have been around for 62 years. It is not Breguet history, but 62 years is solid. The sad reality unless you have a Rolex or Patek, the average person will not know or care about Grand Seiko. I wear watches that I think are superior in many ways to my Rolexes, but no on notices them, including my two GS. I would also propose the average person does not recognize, notice, or care about Omega or Tudor.
As far as where are they with enthusiasts, I put them above both Tudor and Omega, but that coming from my ownership experience of the brands.
In my life, the only watches I have ever received public compliments are on my Rolex’s, a Santos, and the Movado I owned in my early 20s. You can look at my profile for glimpse into some of the watches I wear that all go unnoticed outside of the community. I think you will hear similar sentiment.
I honestly hope that the GS brand never achieves any kind of public awareness. I don't want muggles to notice / care / recognize what I have on my wrist. Because muggles are unwashed, and uncouth!
[My reaction were a muggle to approach me to ask about my watch]
As far as I can tell, the public is aware of only 3 brands:
[Here they are, I think, at the World Ping Pong Championships]
Today, when people ask, "What's that watch?" I always say, "Oh, it's a Seiko." End of conversation. If, for some god-forsaken reason, one day every random Joe knows what a Grand Seiko is, I'm burning my godd*mn collection, and buying a brand nobody would ever recognize... maybe Junghans or Glashuette Original?
Haha awesome. I find this answer fascinating! What role does “brand” play in your collecting and how has it evolved from when you started?
I honestly hope that the GS brand never achieves any kind of public awareness. I don't want muggles to notice / care / recognize what I have on my wrist. Because muggles are unwashed, and uncouth!
[My reaction were a muggle to approach me to ask about my watch]
As far as I can tell, the public is aware of only 3 brands:
[Here they are, I think, at the World Ping Pong Championships]
Today, when people ask, "What's that watch?" I always say, "Oh, it's a Seiko." End of conversation. If, for some god-forsaken reason, one day every random Joe knows what a Grand Seiko is, I'm burning my godd*mn collection, and buying a brand nobody would ever recognize... maybe Junghans or Glashuette Original?
I only disagree because nobody I know would list Seiko as a watch brand ahead of Timex.
So, in my experience it's Apple, Timex, then Rolex that come to people's minds. Maybe even Apple, Fitbit, then Timex...
Luxury watches aren't thought about by normal people... It's mostly people who love watches that think about watches at all.
If somebody recognize a GS (dreams for the future yay!) on the street, my reaction would be two-fold.
First, smile and say yes.
Second, try to discreetly look around for escape avenues and looking if the guy (or gal, equal opportunity yay!) have accomplices just waiting to jump me.
I think GS is in a much different space - what I remember other posts is that brands like Omega and Rolex make more than 5x the number of watches compared to GS. So, I don’t think GS will be as common or heavily advertised as the other brands. So, no I don’t think GS will get that kind of recognition in the foreseeable future.
For less money you can buy just Seiko with the same fancy movement and still have a pretty dial without the textured dial that has so many variations but the same hands. They cheapened any street cred they had.
I knew about Casio... but it was always the cheap alternative to the Timex.
I grew up in the age of Indiglo, so everybody knew Timex
GS has so much potential. Their marketing is not existent. Limited editions are a Bit much. They should try to modify their cases to be a bit more organic. Finish is incredible. They have the means to be a huge brand. Prices increases recently seem like GS is out of touch though.
I honestly hope that the GS brand never achieves any kind of public awareness. I don't want muggles to notice / care / recognize what I have on my wrist. Because muggles are unwashed, and uncouth!
[My reaction were a muggle to approach me to ask about my watch]
As far as I can tell, the public is aware of only 3 brands:
[Here they are, I think, at the World Ping Pong Championships]
Today, when people ask, "What's that watch?" I always say, "Oh, it's a Seiko." End of conversation. If, for some god-forsaken reason, one day every random Joe knows what a Grand Seiko is, I'm burning my godd*mn collection, and buying a brand nobody would ever recognize... maybe Junghans or Glashuette Original?
Lol, “Grand Seiko” sounds like you’re trying way too hard. Just say it’s a Seiko, we won’t judge you. Not everybody can afford a Rolex.
As someone who is saving up for his first Grand Seiko, I do not want GS to get any more recognition and drive their prices up. lol
Watch enthusiasts are a micro minority. When I'm picking people up for tours I always do a wrist scan. I'm actually shocked when I spot a Watch! Now while I want to see more people appreciate a good watch, Let alone an expensive one. I kind of like the sublimity off wearing a high quality watch without the attention of wearing a Gold Rolex.
It's always good to talk about Grand Seiko! Agree with @HotWatchChick69 , it's good that people don't really notice them a lot. Only seasoned enthusiasts would really understand this and this has kept their prices at retail. If you see a person wearing a GS, you can be sure that that person knows about watches and made a lot of research before getting one.
It's always good to remember that when we buy a watch, we should buy it to please ourselves and not others. Just because a watch doesn't hold value doesn't mean that it's a bad watch. It just means that
My GS was bought half way through my journey. For me, it took a while to realize how GS differs from Seiko and other swiss brands. I remembered seeing one in their display and saying how weird 'Grand' Seiko sounds.
Good question and I would argue many enthusiasts do not know much about GS too and consider them just another Seiko. For example, they are not that young brand as they have been around for 62 years. It is not Breguet history, but 62 years is solid. The sad reality unless you have a Rolex or Patek, the average person will not know or care about Grand Seiko. I wear watches that I think are superior in many ways to my Rolexes, but no on notices them, including my two GS. I would also propose the average person does not recognize, notice, or care about Omega or Tudor.
As far as where are they with enthusiasts, I put them above both Tudor and Omega, but that coming from my ownership experience of the brands.
In my life, the only watches I have ever received public compliments are on my Rolex’s, a Santos, and the Movado I owned in my early 20s. You can look at my profile for glimpse into some of the watches I wear that all go unnoticed outside of the community. I think you will hear similar sentiment.
Great points. The only watches I’ve received compliments on are my Timex and Xeric. And to clarify, when I say “relatively young brand” I do mean compared to Swiss brands with “heritage” and moreso globally — taking into account their expansion into the US. I think even among enthusiast they were the “best kept secret” for a very long time. It took me falling down the rabbit hole to truly understand the brand and offering. To that end, I think the appeal to me is that they kind of still have that “oh you don’t know?” feel about them even in the luxury space, which as far into public consciousness as I expect they’ll get
It's because that name was thought about in the 50s and 60s by old men. Not only that, old Japanese men.
It, along with King Seiko (how's that for sheer mind boggling ridiculousness?) was a competition within Seiko themselves and between Seiko and the Swiss watches for share in Japan's luxury watch markets.
Just remember this, the Japanese, they look inward first. That's why we get stuff like Grand Seiko when they had brands like Credor to break away from the 'Seiko' image.
Orient was bought out. They were always decent watchmakers to me. Also it seems like Epson seperated Orient as it's own thing in the conglomerate. Or else we wouldn't get stuff like the Orient Star.
This, more than anything else, brings tears of joy to my eyes!!!
The fact that nobody, not even enthusiasts, can get over the brand name will ensure that GS never becomes a widely recognized brand!!!
Thank god!!!
I’ll get to enjoy my GS’es and never have to worry that disgusting muggles appropriate it, the way the disgusting masses appropriated the Rolex brand in their disgusting songs and disgusting muggle lives!
I hear you. Out of curiosity, are there any brands where you think the hype matches the product? Where you look at their differentiators and say “no need to shut up, keep preaching!“
Longines comes to mind immediately. It’s the most represented brand in my collection right now. There’s a couple more Longines models that have taken up residence in my brain that I haven’t bought yet.
I have to say Blancpain as well. Some might say they are too expensive but my used Bathyscaphe was comfortably in the same range as many used GS models I’ve seen for sale. I think they are incredible watches though.
Longines comes to mind immediately. It’s the most represented brand in my collection right now. There’s a couple more Longines models that have taken up residence in my brain that I haven’t bought yet.
I have to say Blancpain as well. Some might say they are too expensive but my used Bathyscaphe was comfortably in the same range as many used GS models I’ve seen for sale. I think they are incredible watches though.
Very cool -- Longines is a brand that always comes up in my periphery, but that I haven't spent a lot of time with. The Legend Diver and Zulu Time tend to catch my eye. As someone who's collected a few, is there anything about them that sets the brand apart in your eyes -- that you would use to convey the brand's value to others? Or is it more of an aesthetic leaning?
A little from column A. A little from column B. Longines gets proprietary movements from ETA but instead of making them cheaper, they add things like silicon hairsprings, vertical clutch column wheels or added power reserve without slowing down the beat rate. They don’t even advertise these things and may not even mention them on their website.
I find their case finishing is more focused on long term, daily comfort. Their bracelet models are far more wearable after several days than some other brands. The skin touching surfaces are softly rounded. I have had negative experiences with some sharp edged bracelets.
But there is also and aesthetic side. The curves and angles of their cases seem to make it easier for me to wear a larger diameter than I normally would and still feel perfectly natural and comfortable.
There are plenty of brands playing in the neo-vintage style but few actually get the design, layout and proportions just right. Moels does it right. Cartier does it right. Longines does it right but very few others get the layout, proportion, patterns, shapes, widths, and all the subtle design cues that make a vintage inspired watch look like it has a proper vintage aesthetic, but modern. I came into the watch hobby via collecting vintage. I think my eye for modern vintage is pretty much “I know it when I see it” but I’m not going to try and teach anyone what I think proper vintage is.
Overall, my appreciation for Longines is a result of multiple small details that you can’t notice in a photograph or may not notice while trying on in store. You may not even notice those small details that make it so easy to wear for months. But they are there. By design.
A little from column A. A little from column B. Longines gets proprietary movements from ETA but instead of making them cheaper, they add things like silicon hairsprings, vertical clutch column wheels or added power reserve without slowing down the beat rate. They don’t even advertise these things and may not even mention them on their website.
I find their case finishing is more focused on long term, daily comfort. Their bracelet models are far more wearable after several days than some other brands. The skin touching surfaces are softly rounded. I have had negative experiences with some sharp edged bracelets.
But there is also and aesthetic side. The curves and angles of their cases seem to make it easier for me to wear a larger diameter than I normally would and still feel perfectly natural and comfortable.
There are plenty of brands playing in the neo-vintage style but few actually get the design, layout and proportions just right. Moels does it right. Cartier does it right. Longines does it right but very few others get the layout, proportion, patterns, shapes, widths, and all the subtle design cues that make a vintage inspired watch look like it has a proper vintage aesthetic, but modern. I came into the watch hobby via collecting vintage. I think my eye for modern vintage is pretty much “I know it when I see it” but I’m not going to try and teach anyone what I think proper vintage is.
Overall, my appreciation for Longines is a result of multiple small details that you can’t notice in a photograph or may not notice while trying on in store. You may not even notice those small details that make it so easy to wear for months. But they are there. By design.
You’ve inspired me to have one pulled out of the display case next time!
Orient was bought out. They were always decent watchmakers to me. Also it seems like Epson seperated Orient as it's own thing in the conglomerate. Or else we wouldn't get stuff like the Orient Star.
I did not know this. I thought they were all still part of the Seiko-Epsom corporate family!
I did not know this. I thought they were all still part of the Seiko-Epsom corporate family!
They still are a part of Epson, just not under Seiko's division. I guess they don't want Orient to be too same-y to Seiko or something.
They still are a part of Epson, just not under Seiko's division. I guess they don't want Orient to be too same-y to Seiko or something.
That’s actually pretty smart
What if.... They woke up.. realised it's a branding issue... Decided to stop using the GS name and change it all to Credor? Then all our GS will truly be limited editions 😂. Alright. Time to stop daydreaming.
My take: love their watches and quality... I dont think it's a sustainable model for mass production. Hand finishing for all these watches? When you make millions a year like Rolex... they don't even wanna polish the movement and have clear caseback.. that makes sense. You can't charge that price either. I say over time... we will see it less value for money. Prices have crept up already.
This one photo says it all for me. Grand Seiko went from 23rd in the US all the way to 4th in just four years when it comes to the amount of revenue (In the $5,000-$10,000 price range) Rolex is 1st obviously. Grand Seiko did that without all the advertising, brand ambassadors or Formula One sponsorships that the likes of Rolex, Omega, TAG and others use to stay front of mind in the eyes of the consumer. I was told by my AD that GS only makes about 35k watches a year. Those are similar production numbers to the likes of AP, Patek and Vacheron. AP actually makes more at 40k. Patek is at 60k. And Vacheron actually makes the least of the Holy Trinity at around than 25k. (
This one photo says it all for me. Grand Seiko went from 23rd in the US all the way to 4th in just four years when it comes to the amount of revenue (In the $5,000-$10,000 price range) Rolex is 1st obviously. Grand Seiko did that without all the advertising, brand ambassadors or Formula One sponsorships that the likes of Rolex, Omega, TAG and others use to stay front of mind in the eyes of the consumer. I was told by my AD that GS only makes about 35k watches a year. Those are similar production numbers to the likes of AP, Patek and Vacheron. AP actually makes more at 40k. Patek is at 60k. And Vacheron actually makes the least of the Holy Trinity at around than 25k. (
These are very interesting stats about GS. I plan to own a GS at some point, but I'll probably never own one from the Holy Trinity. I think GS is positioning the company in a great place in the watch market.
I honestly hope that the GS brand never achieves any kind of public awareness. I don't want muggles to notice / care / recognize what I have on my wrist. Because muggles are unwashed, and uncouth!
[My reaction were a muggle to approach me to ask about my watch]
As far as I can tell, the public is aware of only 3 brands:
[Here they are, I think, at the World Ping Pong Championships]
Today, when people ask, "What's that watch?" I always say, "Oh, it's a Seiko." End of conversation. If, for some god-forsaken reason, one day every random Joe knows what a Grand Seiko is, I'm burning my godd*mn collection, and buying a brand nobody would ever recognize... maybe Junghans or Glashuette Original?
Haha 🤣 is wrong I'm wanting a muggle to notice your GSs? If you do burn your collection I will pay to watch it 🍿
It strange as I don't really put them in a bracket. It might be because swiss watches have their own kind of place compared to the craftsmanship of Japan. I just see them as something different and their own thing. Their values are different to other swiss brands.