How NOT to get your grail according to a non-saver
So. Last night I was showing off my new acquisition--a 1960s Elgin Eltra DayDate Automatic--to my girlfriend who seemed indifferent, shrugging it off like I was showing her yesterday's leftovers. She asked how much I got it for. I told her 50 USD, a price I'm quite proud of. I had expected a round of applause, a standing ovation, a proud smile with a single tear rolling down one side of her face for a job well done. Instead I got what most of you probably get in these circumstances. She said, judgmentally, "Instead of buying cheap watches, why don't you save your money so you can finally get your precious Jaeger LeCoultre Reverso grail?" Only she didn't say "precious Jaeger LeCoultre Reverso grail", instead she said, "that JLC you wanted."
This piece of advice is not alien to me. I've heard it in the past from my father, brothers, other family members, and more friends/acquaintances I could count. I've seen this suggestion written down on watch forums and even here on Watchcrunch. Heck, I've watched it on Youtube, spouted off by watch experts and vloggers alike. It's not bad advice and makes sense, if you're amendable.
But this "save up to get your grail" strategy had never really sat right with me.
I look at it from the perspective of just because you have the cost of an item doesn't mean you can afford the item. To wit: a brand new Reverso will probably cost somewhere around the 10k USD mark and more, depending on the model. In my neck of the woods, a secondhand Reverso will probably cost somewhere around 4k to 6k USD, depending on the model. I can, if I push it, save up for months and months for that 4k to get a watch, absolutely. But my economic status makes spending that much money on a watch inconceivable given that I already have a luxury watch in the form of a 2008 Omega SMP 300. It's really difficult to justify spending X amount of money when all you have to spare is the same X amount of money.
I firmly believe that watches are unnecessary, they are superfluous, they are a luxury--even the most affordable kind. For me, there's no real reason to buy one, let alone many watches. And there's certainly no logical justification to get a multi-thousand dollar one. That is, unless you can afford it. And by afford I mean it shouldn't bankrupt you to get the watch.
If you're a financial magician (or an accountant), you could maybe balance out the books so that by the end of the month you're setting aside a little something something for all of life's needs and wants. You're setting aside money for your emergency fund, vacation with the family, credit cards, children's education, housing, utilities, car, savings, and your grail. Okay, good. In a few months, you have enough money to get your grail.
It still wouldn't sit right if it were me though. I've been there, I've done that. Maybe not with watches but with other things. I wanted to get a nice coupe. Nothing major. Just a Toyota 86. I did the math, I had the money, I had the desire but, when it was time to pull the trigger, my head went to the prison of practicality, my wallet shackled by the chains of frugality. Why did I need the 86? I had a sedan. And even if I needed an extra car, why that? Why don't I get a pickup? Or maybe another sedan, with actual leg room for passengers? Or if I wanted a fun ride, why not get a 20 year old Miata and save some money? But beyond that, other questions kept coming up: Shouldn't I just add that money towards my daughter's college fund? My girlfriend loves to travel, that money could go towards that. Or don't I need a new refrigerator, among other things? Should I just buy dirt?
There were way too many other things to prioritize before the 86. At the end of the day, I couldn't "afford" it even if I had the money. There were way too many variables to consider.
So saving up for a grail just isn't a thing I consider in my watch collecting hobby. I like my collecting to be (1) stress free because it's supposed to spark joy, (2) not something that eats away at something else far more important, and (3) absolutely the last consideration for where my money go.
Not sure if this line of reasoning makes sense to anyone else but me. For now, I'm sticking to finding pieces that I could afford--which means I don't have to think about it, I don't have worry that I'm using money earmarked for something else, and I'll be fine losing that money if something happens to the watch.
I still want that Reverso though. But I'll just have to wait until my economic capacity catches up with my watch aspirations. Until then, the Reverso remains a grail.
I could sell the SMP to get the JLC. There's that too.
I've got a god-shaped hole in my life that I'm trying to fill in futility with watches.
Listen to your girlfriend and start saving. 😆
Everything you said makes 100% sense to me. I feel the same when it comes to watches and other facts of of life. I won't get expensive watches at this time in my life. 1- I have other things to pay 2- I don't want to live poorly because I bought a watch when I have others already. You can only wear so many at the same time.
Now, the 86 or the 20 yr old Miata... I can't help you pick. I have I a 30 yr old Miata and love every minute spent in it. I had the chance to drive an 86 and... Loved every minute spent in it.
Old school charm or new school fun. Pick your poison I guess. But what about a 30 yr old 86? 😜
Don't sell your SMP, keep collecting cheaper pieces then when you have enough,sell those & get your JLC.
....& forget the car, get a bike - it's far more fun 😊 (& cheaper!)
Oof
Yea this is a tough call
Idk I think if you get to the point of really wanting the watch you will just do it because at this point you know what to do so if you haven’t that mean you are preventing buyers remorse for spending that amount of money on a watch. I’m in the same spot as well. I can afford my grail but clearing my savings for it just isn’t smart.
Maybe a side hustle money to get the watch?
I have a problem with the grail concept to begin with: Is one watch really going to satisfy your wants? Or will it in the end be a watch on your wrist that simply cost more money than the others? Will the enjoyment be even remotely proportionate to the price you paid, or will it become a safe queen because you don't want to scratch or damage it?
One simply doesn't have these issues with less expensive watches.
I have a problem with the grail concept to begin with: Is one watch really going to satisfy your wants? Or will it in the end be a watch on your wrist that simply cost more money than the others? Will the enjoyment be even remotely proportionate to the price you paid, or will it become a safe queen because you don't want to scratch or damage it?
One simply doesn't have these issues with less expensive watches.
I got my Grail a few years ago, & it's absolutely worth it - & potentially cheaper in the long run as "lesser" watches don't float my boat anymore because I'm satisfied with what I've got.
Most of what you say makes a lot of sense but not what I have done in my own life, every experience is different. I have noticed that as long as you have a plan that you believe in 110% and not just rationalizing, sort of avoiding advice that might also be credible, you will be fine. My own father in law gave me a bit of advice when I married his youngest daughter, who he admitted that he adored and spoiled terribly. He said that we needed comfortable housing, preferrably not rented and funds for emergency repairs to that domus, dollars in case I should suffer a reversal in employment situation, the occasional event that made life fun. He understood my long time watch hobby, lectured that was not secondary or even tertiary. If the JLC is your one true watch, you might consider saving for it. You can always divert the funds to more pressing concerns should they occur before you have saved enough. Unless you possess really deep pockets, it is never going to be an excellent time to buy a toy.
I cannot marry delayed gratification with luxury items. Luxury items should be paid from surplus money whose forfeiture does not affect your life meaningfully. With watches, one can make a case that one cheap watch is for some people an actual useful expenditure, but beyond that it's a luxury.
Nice watch. It’s a solid pick up. Congratulations! To save or buy now is really all about your head space. I think you’ve saved for a grail before, your SMP. So if I’m right. You can save if you choose to.
My opinion is there will alway be something else to stop you from buying you don’t need. If you save for it while making all your responsibilities then buy the watch. If you save and you want a car more than a watch buy the car. And lastly if you save and you want to pay for a better college for daughter. Then do that.
As you said. This watch thing should be fun. It should make you smile every time you check the time. It’s also your hard earned money. Spend it on travel, watches, cars or children. Spend it on whatever will make you smile the most and don’t ever apologize for it.
I get your thinking but it is better to save for something special if you can. It will be a huge thrill when you get there. Trouble is 5 to 10 years down when it needs a cripplingly expensive service 😱
I have a problem with the grail concept to begin with: Is one watch really going to satisfy your wants? Or will it in the end be a watch on your wrist that simply cost more money than the others? Will the enjoyment be even remotely proportionate to the price you paid, or will it become a safe queen because you don't want to scratch or damage it?
One simply doesn't have these issues with less expensive watches.
Yeah, I think people ignore what they’re losing when they sell everything and get the “grail”. It’s not that it isn’t a great watch, but most of us enjoy watches for themselves. That means, just because you have one doesn’t mean you don’t enjoy the others. Just because you could wear an Explorer everywhere doesn’t mean you wouldn’t enjoy a dress watch or diver.
I think most of us are here because we’re not one watch people.
Understand the day for that grail may never come and save as you might, under a certain level of income saving for it it is a fools errand, you will get partly there, and the car needs a transmission, or you need dental work, or you end up out of work and it goes away. They number is like the speed if light, you get arbitrarily close but somehow you never quite get there. I know the lust for that one grail watch, I know it well. But better a collection you can enjoy than a savings account with a number you can't reach. In the long run you are having more fun.
I have a problem with the grail concept to begin with: Is one watch really going to satisfy your wants? Or will it in the end be a watch on your wrist that simply cost more money than the others? Will the enjoyment be even remotely proportionate to the price you paid, or will it become a safe queen because you don't want to scratch or damage it?
One simply doesn't have these issues with less expensive watches.
Yes. One watch will really satisfy my wants. If I had my grail it would be the only watch I ever wore again unless it was being serviced.
@Mr.Dee.Bater has a great story about ketchup that ties in with this nicely. I can't recall it right now and have to run or I'd look it up.
After a few years of watch collecting, I finally attained my grail watch (a Speedy), but I realized that this hobby never ends. I'm always on the lookout for pieces that catch my eye and end up finding ways to justify buying another watch.
Then I remember that I can only wear one watch at a time to try to curb the temptation, and it has barely worked so far.
What I do now is then to just get something second hand, and sell it off once I lose interest in them. And ultimately I still go back to my Speedy after the initial novelty of the new watches wear off.
No advice here, just sharing my personal experience ✌️
Yeah, I think people ignore what they’re losing when they sell everything and get the “grail”. It’s not that it isn’t a great watch, but most of us enjoy watches for themselves. That means, just because you have one doesn’t mean you don’t enjoy the others. Just because you could wear an Explorer everywhere doesn’t mean you wouldn’t enjoy a dress watch or diver.
I think most of us are here because we’re not one watch people.
I couldn't have put it any better.
Listen to your girlfriend and start saving. 😆
I hope she doesn't see this "listen to your girlfriend" narrative. We don't want to give her more ammunition than she already has.
Everything you said makes 100% sense to me. I feel the same when it comes to watches and other facts of of life. I won't get expensive watches at this time in my life. 1- I have other things to pay 2- I don't want to live poorly because I bought a watch when I have others already. You can only wear so many at the same time.
Now, the 86 or the 20 yr old Miata... I can't help you pick. I have I a 30 yr old Miata and love every minute spent in it. I had the chance to drive an 86 and... Loved every minute spent in it.
Old school charm or new school fun. Pick your poison I guess. But what about a 30 yr old 86? 😜
I ended up getting a very practical crossover (not sure if that translate in other countries, essentially something that falls between a sedan and an SUV).
Nice watch. It’s a solid pick up. Congratulations! To save or buy now is really all about your head space. I think you’ve saved for a grail before, your SMP. So if I’m right. You can save if you choose to.
My opinion is there will alway be something else to stop you from buying you don’t need. If you save for it while making all your responsibilities then buy the watch. If you save and you want a car more than a watch buy the car. And lastly if you save and you want to pay for a better college for daughter. Then do that.
As you said. This watch thing should be fun. It should make you smile every time you check the time. It’s also your hard earned money. Spend it on travel, watches, cars or children. Spend it on whatever will make you smile the most and don’t ever apologize for it.
I didn't save up for the SMP. In fact, it's my first ever luxury watch and got me into the watch collecting game. It was a simple case of right place, right time for me. Someone in my family needed to sell their SMP for financial reasons and I was in a space wherein I could afford to "help" out. I didn't know anything about watches then and didn't realize how great of a deal I've gotten. Before the SMP, I was rocking my Police Batman Vengeance watch which I thought was premium as heck since I had to reserve it and paid full retail price. And I didn't buy it because it was a watch with a Batman design, I bought it because it was a Batman collectible that also happened to be a watch.
So, no I don't have any experience in saving up for a watch. It's always been could I spare the money right there and then or not. So far.
Yeah, I think people ignore what they’re losing when they sell everything and get the “grail”. It’s not that it isn’t a great watch, but most of us enjoy watches for themselves. That means, just because you have one doesn’t mean you don’t enjoy the others. Just because you could wear an Explorer everywhere doesn’t mean you wouldn’t enjoy a dress watch or diver.
I think most of us are here because we’re not one watch people.
Though, the thought of being a one-watch guy is an intriguing proposition and has crossed my mind many times. Not ready to give up multiple watches, not there yet, but the one-watch-to-rule-them-all notion is growing on me.
@Mr.Dee.Bater has a great story about ketchup that ties in with this nicely. I can't recall it right now and have to run or I'd look it up.
Is it the inner flex, don't hate on flex culture post? Like @Mr.Dee.Bater I too grew up not having a lot (or poor as you like) and there's a point, earlier on, in my professional life that I didn't just do paycheck-to-paycheck, I did can-I-borrow-money-promise-to-pay-you-back-on-payday every payday for a substantial period of time. So now that I can afford nice things and can actually "flex", the few times that I do flex I offer no apologies. I take pride in what I've accomplished and chest-thumping is not beneath me. So, the question is, can I chest-thump with a watch that I had to save and save, for months, maybe even years, to acquire?
Maybe? Though I seem to recall his wife being mentioned in the anecdote as well
Though, the thought of being a one-watch guy is an intriguing proposition and has crossed my mind many times. Not ready to give up multiple watches, not there yet, but the one-watch-to-rule-them-all notion is growing on me.
Look, I love the thought of spending my elder years staring at a watch that was on all my adventures too. But somehow that vision isn’t as strong as my desire to own several watches.
Life is too short in my opinion, save the money SENSIBLY and buy that damn watch! Understand that it won’t bring you happiness or total satisfaction and enjoy it for what it is
That Elgin looks really good. I say just enjoy the hobby in the way it makes you comfortable.
I'm not a "high net worth" individual, but I'd like to think that if I was, I'd be able to differentiate between good quality, and ostentatious. Like, have a Rolex if you can afford it, but not one with diamonds and shit that's £50K. I love looking at watches by quality brands like Oris, GS, Omega, etc, but for me, even Certina, Tissot, etc are aspirational. My budget is firmly Timex, Accurist, etc.. If I was loaded, would I blow £??K on a watch? I hope not.
That Elgin looks sweet :)
I'm not a "high net worth" individual, but I'd like to think that if I was, I'd be able to differentiate between good quality, and ostentatious. Like, have a Rolex if you can afford it, but not one with diamonds and shit that's £50K. I love looking at watches by quality brands like Oris, GS, Omega, etc, but for me, even Certina, Tissot, etc are aspirational. My budget is firmly Timex, Accurist, etc.. If I was loaded, would I blow £??K on a watch? I hope not.
That Elgin looks sweet :)
I’m not a high net worth kinda guy as well. And I agree with your point around ostentatiousness. I’d like to think my taste is a bit more subdued. Yes, I want a Reverso but I want the basic one, no precious metals or stones. Just a simple, elegant, quiet luxury Reverso that I bought dirt cheap from a bitter divorcee selling off her cheating husband’s belongings out of spite (this is my daydream, you can’t have it).
Look, I love the thought of spending my elder years staring at a watch that was on all my adventures too. But somehow that vision isn’t as strong as my desire to own several watches.
I’m conflicted. My thoughts around my collection changes every week. I can’t even stick to the 1-watch-from-every-decade-since-1920 theme I decided would be my collection’s goal.
Life is too short in my opinion, save the money SENSIBLY and buy that damn watch! Understand that it won’t bring you happiness or total satisfaction and enjoy it for what it is
Wait. So the Reverso isn’t the answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything? And there I thought when Douglas Adams said the answer was 42, he meant 42 watches…
Ooooh, there’s a collection theme…
Modest expectations are the key to happiness. People really build up these "grails" in their minds but at the end of the day it's just a watch.