New, non limited edition King Seikos with 6L35 movements are coming. Thoughts?

Seiko has done it again, not surprised or shocked anymore. Introducing another model to increase confusion in delineating between Seiko, GS, KS ( and all in between with sub models in each line ) ... and attaching a price tag of 3.400€ on a watch with 6L35 movement ( 45h reserve, variation of 25s/day ) and so generic look you need to try really hard not to make it more genric. Bravo Seiko, well done. Sometimes I wonder what are they trying to achieve, either moving Seiko to upper segment or devaluating GS even more than they are after spending millions $$$ to convince people it is not a Seiko - both extremely stupid ideas.

The US MSRP will be usually lower than the Europe prices for Seikos.

It exactly priced like the 6L movement limited edition KS SJE083/87 which was $3200 and $3300 (gold variant). This will be a $100 more since it comes on a bracelet. The SJE073 came 5 years back (2018 felt like yesteryear but we are already in 2023😂) and the prices have gone steeply since then with all the watches so no surprise

Its still a right direction for the KS lineup with high beat movement going forward and keeping up with the model heritage, the 6L calibre will perform in hand better but it's still capable of chronometer grade regulation.

I was planning to pick up the cherry red variant with 6R later this year but going to hold on to see if Seiko releases more dial variants for the 6L variants.

Lot of internal brand clashing to deal with for Seiko. They are probably trying to place KS like the middle child between Seiko and GS.

We maybe seeing few more designs in the future similar to reissues they did with the current KS. The newer 36000 bph movement are unlikely to be used until some caliber makes it way down to Seiko from GS.

Well, it's an improvement on the earlier reissues, particularly keeping the thickness down, and at this rate they'll be putting out King Seiko's with chronometer-level time keeping within 5 years... But the price is a joke. I love the design of these - much more than most Grand Seiko's if I'm honest - but these are surely enthusiast-oriented models and I suspect that, like most enthusiasts, the sub-par movements in these things just strike me as disrespectful to what KS was all about. Solve for accuracy, keep the price below GS and we can talk. As said above, instead of trying to position KS below GS, why not have them rival each other again? Then you can keep prices up without anyone feeling short-changed.

Like many of you, I'm disappointed.

Back in 2011 it was possible to buy a Seiko SARN001/003 / SAEN001 with all of the following attributes:

- multiple complications

- distinctive Grammar of Design styling

- a 4S mechanical movement (with proper, pukka King Seiko lineage)

- assembled in the Grand Seiko Shizukuishi studio

All of that for less than what these 6L three-handers are listed for (and that's accounting for inflation).

But - as we've seen throughout the Seiko and GS lineups over the past few years - the Seiko value proposition simply isn't what it was.

This is how the watch should've been specd from the get go. No, they can't put a high beat in there because they are obviously keeping King Seiko underneath GS and above presage/prospex.

Price this at $1500, it's a hit!

But 3k+ ? What are they smoking?

Because of the price point, these "high end" King Seikos are very awkwardly positioned in the Seiko lineup. If you're looking for best value, you're better off shopping the Presage line which is generally sub-$1,000 USD. If you're looking for best quality, you're better off pricing up for a Grand Seiko model. Or for half the price, you can buy one of the "standard" King Seiko models (https://seikoluxe.com/king-seiko/) which seem to have negligible differences in specs to these new KS models.

Exactly what I was wanting to say.

I have the SJE085 36mm alpinist that was released alongside the SJE083 King Seiko a few years back. wearing it daily for about a year, the 6L35 movement has been great. Mine has been operating between +2 to +4s/day during the last year. The movement is really thin and the rotor is very quiet, so has been a joy. I think using this caliber in these new King Seikos is the right move, but it's a bummer that they are so expensive.

Judging by the re-sale value of these models and the discounts available for new ones at ADs, it seems that Seiko is having a hard time finding people to buy-in at the 2,900-3,200 price point.

Yes! But then imagine how much Seiko would charge for such a thing 😬

do they use the same quality cases and dials? I can see the hands are different on the base models. If the execution of these watches is close (if not at) Grand Seiko standards then it's a deal. I can't imagine the lesser ones are...

If they are identical to the cheaper King Seiko then it's awkwardly expensive, yes.

C'mon man, they can't price it at 1500$. That's where Monta, Formex and Christopher Ward would put that watch... and even they would struggle. It's basically a SW-300 equipped watch with pretty good finishing, I haven't seen it but instinctively I'd say it's going to be better than any of those micro brands will give you.

Seiko is just confusing the market more and more with their numerous lines and endless models and limited editions. Used to be a big fan, can’t really say that anymore.

Possibly crazy idea, but what I would like is for Grand Seiko to primarily focus on the spring drive, with a few limited high beat movements. And King Seiko would be given the highly finished high beat movements. That would clearly differentiate the two labels. And give us a clear choice.

There's a few excerpts from the article that seem to suggest the main differences between the high-end and standard KS models are the movement and level of finishing:

these [the new KS models] are some of the most refined watches in the brand’s portfolio, even though you’ll need a trained eye and a close encounter to differentiate them from a more accessible version from the SPBxxx range. In fact, these could also be seen as bigger brothers to these aforementioned lower-end versions… It’s all a bit confusing, I know. Visually, they are indeed closer to the SPBxxx models and don’t try too hard to recreate the original KSK models, and at the same time, they share their specifications, movement and refinement with the two limited editions above.

All other King Seiko watches that we’ve covered (such as the 37mm no-date and the 39mm date) are not playing in the same league and are to be seen as evocations of the style, without the mechanical prestige.

There's nothing in the article to suggest that there's a huge disparity in finishing, although obviously you'd expect the more expensive model to be nicer. The 6L35 movement is technically superior on paper to the 6R31 movement, but practically speaking I don't think it's that much of a selling point, especially at double the price of the standard. 6L35 is 28,800 bph with -10/+15, but higher beat rate means only 45 hrs power reserve. 6R31 is 21,600 bph with -15/+25, but 70 hrs of power reserve. I suppose it's a personal preference at the end of the day. I'd still contend these new models are a poor value proposition when you can pay half or less than half for marginally inferior quality in the Presage range, or pay more and get the clearly distinguishing features of a Grand Seiko.

For me it really comes down to what you say in the end

pay more and get the clearly distinguishing features of a Grand Seiko

Are you getting more for sure though? Some Seiko are finished by the Grand Seiko studios. To justify the price you'd really need this to be (almost) a Grand Seiko. At which point you're still undercutting the cheapest Mechanicals but land above the quartz models. Which is fine, I guess? I think that specs on Seiko and Grand Seiko are rather meaningless, it isn't what these watches are about typically.

The hands match that of a GS on the better KS models, not the basic ones, and it might very well be Zaratsu polished. If the dial holds up to a magnifier then charging what's basically approaching GS prices wouldn't be that crazy... the benefit is always going to be marginal and honestly I'd rather get a KS made to GS standards for a grand less than pay for the GS branding.

I'd really want to inspect it before I judge this one.

Don't get me wrong, I think these are beautiful watches. I do think that if you compare the specs of GS vs. KS, GS is still superior - you're not just paying extra for the GS branding. As you note, Seikos are more about the magic of the details than the technical specs - agreed. But it's hard to make meaningful comparisons without some sort of measuring stick, which is why I reference specs in the first place.

I still struggle to see huge differences between the standard KS and high-end KS when looking at pictures of them side by side. And I think that's why the huge price gap confuses me. Yes, you can talk about hands, dial quality, or other finishing choices on the high-end model - you can tell some things are done differently from the standard, but I'm not getting the overwhelming feeling they're 2x the price better. Nor do I think the 6L35 movement is enough of an upgrade to explain that much of a price disparity. These details are probably better examined in the flesh, I'll admit.

But just as you ask, why pay for a GS when the high-end KS is near that level, I ask, why pay for the high-end KS when the standard KS is 1/2 the price and by all appearances still an exquisitely-finished piece? Of course, this line of questioning could continue to devolve into, why buy the standard KS instead of a nice Presage model, all the way to why buy a watch in the first place haha. There's no right or wrong answer to these questions, totally subjective at the end of the day.

I like Seiko, they release(d) a lot of different and creative models. I bought (and still own) a SARB033 5 years ago when I started my watch journey. I bought it brand new for less than $400, MSRP. The two main problems for me with this brand are the quality control and the accuracy of their movement.

The prices of today Seiko watches are ridiculous (ok, 3rd problem), because they still don't fix the problems mentionned above.

I just bought a gorgeous Grand Seiko Spring Drive SBGA293 for $3900, brand new, which is not that far from today Seiko prices. With GS, I never feel the issues that Seiko has. And of course, on the GS, the attention to detail is second to none.

Hope it is helpful.

The new King Seikos are so beautiful up close and on wrist. The angles and finishes on the case and bracelet are just stunning. The series with the 6R movement are wonderfully sized, the lack of a date really works on them, and I think the price is reasonable compared to any other watch you’ll find with that level of detail. The new ones with the 6L movement look nice, but, personally, I don’t think the upgraded movement is worth the additional cost. The 6Rs have always worked just fine for me in the past—reliable and accurate enough—and I prefer the smaller size as well.

That would be great,however GS would have the upper hand.KS is kinda like a newcomer.GS has been making great watches for quite some time.

NON limited editions??