Grand Seiko hurting their own brand? Read before voting
Do you guys think GS is hurting their brand by making quartz and automatic movement of their higher end watches? For example the new GS GMT watch is beautiful, but it has both quartz and automatic movement. I feel like they are hurting their brand by doing this.
I understand Seiko started the quartz movement that almost ended automatic watches, but fast forward to 2022, the trend is quartz is perceived as cheap and automatic watches with inhouse movement is high end and expensive.
Omega use to make their Seamaster in both Quartz and Automatic movement, but they have stopped doing that and only few of their watches have quartz movement, but all their flagship watches are all automatic inhouse movements.
What you guys think, should GS avoid putting quartz movement in their flagship models and just keep a few lower end watches in quartz?
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Ethan
I love watches, my favorite brands is Omega, Rolex & Grand Seiko, Vacheron Constantin, Blanc Pain
Member since
Last active: 1 year ago
I think the "watch community" perceives quartz watches as cheap, but the average watch buyer likes the simplicity of quartz.
I think the "watch community" perceives quartz watches as cheap, but the average watch buyer likes the simplicity of quartz.
Yeah but those people that targets the average person isn't dropping 5k on a watch.
Yeah but those people that targets the average person isn't dropping 5k on a watch.
Respectfully disagree. I bet that >90% of the people who spend >$5k on watches are not watch nerds.
Yeah but those people that targets the average person isn't dropping 5k on a watch.
I mean the average watch buyer at any level, the watch community is in the single digits percentage wise of the overall watch market.
As @MegaBob points out, Cartier does quite well selling expensive quartz watches, even JLC has $20K quartz watches.
I think most people tend to view their preferences as a reflection of what other people think. We assume we are the "average", and anything outside our view/preference is the outlier.
As a funny example consider country music, the people who are exclusively into rock/metal tend to look at country music fans as if they have no music taste. The people who are exclusively into country tend to view the rock/metal fans the same way... Neither side is wrong or right, but both sides consider their preference to be the "normal", and the other side to be "weird".
Keep the quartz watches coming, wouldn't be here without um!! Specs, reliability, history are things that ain't broke so don't fix.
Rolex probably the strongest brand in watches does not make a single quartz movement.
Omega the 2nd most known brand is limited on quartz movement.
As a watch snob, when I see a nice looking watch and notice it is ticking (quartz movement) I automatically think less of the watch. It's simple. High end watches are not quartz movement.
Might as well buy a Michael Kors watch if you are just after the looks.
In regards to accuracy and reliability, my 20 dollar Timex Ironman has kept excellent time and is highly reliable.
People that pay 5K+ for a watch don't want a quartz watch, they want the art of the inhouse movement, the advancement of how far man has been able to track time without the user of battery and just gravity and levers etc.
I'm sure the majority of $5k watch buyers do not care about movements. They buy the watch because it's a $5k watch.
The tiny group of armchair horologists is just the most vocal in social media.
I'm going to go against the trend on this one. Someone who wants to buy a $5k watch would likely naturally navigate to Tudor, Omega, or Cartier (something they saw on a stars wrist). Not something with the word Seiko on the dial. If they are considering a GS they did a little research and may not understand movements but they likely heard about this magical Spring Drive movement.
Consequently, in my mind the primary selling point for a GS is the spring drive movement. If I was the sales rep that would be the main attribute I would point out when trying to sell a GS over a Tudor, Omega, or Cartier.
It it sells then they should make it. If it didn’t sell, they wouldn’t do it.
Rolex is the market leader but meh. I mean, they don’t make a perpetual calendar chronograph but that doesnt mean Patek should stop making those, does it (or insert any brand/complication/technology combination).
Among watch nerds, in the"not 'just' a quartz" conversation, Grand Seiko is top of the list; when quartz comes up Grand Seiko is the first brand mentioned. Grand Seiko is pretty much unique with their range of movement types; variety is a selling point. They've managed to make their quartz iconic which they sell with pride, not just some also-ran, and the marketing has caught on in the watch community where people care about movements. People come to Grand Seiko to look at their quartz. And quartz offers an entry level; someone can get into the brand with an iconic movement for a couple thousand less than their other offerings, which only gets more people interested in the brand. When I first started looking at Grand Seiko, their quartz offerings were rather anodyne and bland. I for one am glad that they're leaning into their quartz offerings. I don't think any other high end watch brand spotlights their quartz the way Grand Seiko does, and it's part of what makes Grand Seiko Grand Seiko.
I mean the average watch buyer at any level, the watch community is in the single digits percentage wise of the overall watch market.
As @MegaBob points out, Cartier does quite well selling expensive quartz watches, even JLC has $20K quartz watches.
I think most people tend to view their preferences as a reflection of what other people think. We assume we are the "average", and anything outside our view/preference is the outlier.
As a funny example consider country music, the people who are exclusively into rock/metal tend to look at country music fans as if they have no music taste. The people who are exclusively into country tend to view the rock/metal fans the same way... Neither side is wrong or right, but both sides consider their preference to be the "normal", and the other side to be "weird".
Now I can’t get Donny and Marie out of my head. Thanks a lot! 😜.
I'm going to go against the trend on this one. Someone who wants to buy a $5k watch would likely naturally navigate to Tudor, Omega, or Cartier (something they saw on a stars wrist). Not something with the word Seiko on the dial. If they are considering a GS they did a little research and may not understand movements but they likely heard about this magical Spring Drive movement.
Consequently, in my mind the primary selling point for a GS is the spring drive movement. If I was the sales rep that would be the main attribute I would point out when trying to sell a GS over a Tudor, Omega, or Cartier.
You make a good point. I would argue that traditional automatic movements are the least interesting thing GS makes.
high end luxury watches start at over 10k and retain much of their value. from that i do not consider GS high end. They suffer too much depreciation walking out the door. No matter how pretty they are it does not reflect in their value retention.
I don't think GS is hurting in any way. Seiko has a special relationship with quartz watches, as the quartz watch was essential to the success of the company.
It only makes sense that GS offers quartz watches, as it is a form of differentiation. Something that very likely wouldn't work for a Swiss brand.
It it sells then they should make it. If it didn’t sell, they wouldn’t do it.
Rolex is the market leader but meh. I mean, they don’t make a perpetual calendar chronograph but that doesnt mean Patek should stop making those, does it (or insert any brand/complication/technology combination).
It doesn't sell as much as it should. GS has a long ways to go before it really shines in the luxury watch market.
Omega stopped putting in quartz movement in their flagship watches for a reason.
Maybe GS will eventually figure it out.
Expensive watches with a quartz movement not from Grand Seiko
At the end of the day, brands sell watches to make money. They make money by appealing to consumers in a variety of ways. I think all of the quartz watches shown above are great watches and I would own any of them even though I’m also fascinated with mechanical things and love automatic movements. I guess my point is that so-called watch nerds are not as single-minded as we think. We like what we like and that includes a great quartz watch!
Rolex probably the strongest brand in watches does not make a single quartz movement.
Omega the 2nd most known brand is limited on quartz movement.
As a watch snob, when I see a nice looking watch and notice it is ticking (quartz movement) I automatically think less of the watch. It's simple. High end watches are not quartz movement.
Might as well buy a Michael Kors watch if you are just after the looks.
In regards to accuracy and reliability, my 20 dollar Timex Ironman has kept excellent time and is highly reliable.
People that pay 5K+ for a watch don't want a quartz watch, they want the art of the inhouse movement, the advancement of how far man has been able to track time without the user of battery and just gravity and levers etc.
Congratulations, you have fully bought into the Swiss hype of automatics and mechanicals are the only "real watches".
Had the Swiss won the quartz wars, we'd be dancing to a very different tune by now, I wager.
By your flawed logic, you would think less of the watch below with it’s ticking second hand? You realize that in addition to quartz, dead seconds is one of the more complex complications many of us would gladly have in our collection. To a novice they would not know the difference. I will put a 9F GS up against any watch in your collection in terms of fit, finish, and overall quality. It sure as heck will beat almost anything in terms of accuracy.
Yeah im sure the casing and finish is Grand Seiko which is amazing.
But it's wrapped around a quartz movement that ticks my bro.
Your watch ticks, mine doesn't. We are not the same.
When I first entered this hobby, I used to be a quartz hater. But show me a highly accurate quartz with a smooth sweeping seconds hand, is aesthetically pleasing (to me), and I may have to buy one.
Grand Seiko Spring Drive is the closest thing you are describing
My wife's Cartier quartz is her go to watch.
Yeah Cartier is a fashion brand that makes bags belts and accessories.
Girls like Cartier watches not because they like watches, but they want an accessory to compliment their outfit.
Grand Seiko Spring Drive is the closest thing you are describing
Try not to gawk if you happen to see a Bulova High Frequency Sweep, is my advice.
Yeah im sure the casing and finish is Grand Seiko which is amazing.
But it's wrapped around a quartz movement that ticks my bro.
Your watch ticks, mine doesn't. We are not the same.
Your lack of knowledge compared to your sense of confidence is stunning. If you spent more time understanding watches as you do trying to shoehorn an old Jay-Z lyric, you might get something from this group.
Your lack of knowledge compared to your sense of confidence is stunning. If you spent more time understanding watches as you do trying to shoehorn an old Jay-Z lyric, you might get something from this group.
Meh, every group got a few of these quartz fanbois and auto/mechaneeks.
Looks at @OmegaXRolex's profile page
Truthfully I was hoping to see these Rolexes, Omegas and VCs he keep harping about. 15 years of collecting, prolly have as big a collection as JaeBust's at this point.
Among watch nerds, in the"not 'just' a quartz" conversation, Grand Seiko is top of the list; when quartz comes up Grand Seiko is the first brand mentioned. Grand Seiko is pretty much unique with their range of movement types; variety is a selling point. They've managed to make their quartz iconic which they sell with pride, not just some also-ran, and the marketing has caught on in the watch community where people care about movements. People come to Grand Seiko to look at their quartz. And quartz offers an entry level; someone can get into the brand with an iconic movement for a couple thousand less than their other offerings, which only gets more people interested in the brand. When I first started looking at Grand Seiko, their quartz offerings were rather anodyne and bland. I for one am glad that they're leaning into their quartz offerings. I don't think any other high end watch brand spotlights their quartz the way Grand Seiko does, and it's part of what makes Grand Seiko Grand Seiko.
Couldn’t agree more with your post. To say GS is in some way cheapening it’s brand is to miss the point of a GS quartz entirely. The sheer brilliance of their technology and insane attention to detail and finishing puts these models, be they quartz, mechanical or spring drive at another level.
Your lack of knowledge compared to your sense of confidence is stunning. If you spent more time understanding watches as you do trying to shoehorn an old Jay-Z lyric, you might get something from this group.
What he said ^^
When I think Grand Seiko, I think Spring Drive, which is technically a quartz movement. But if they're making straight quartz watches and charging the same that they'd charge for a high beat, high accuracy automatic or a spring drive, then first of all, shame on people for paying that, secondly, shame on Seiko for charging that. Seems a bit of shady price gouging on unsavvy customers.
Just today, Teddy B posted a deep dive on Grand Seiko with Joe Kirk. Right at the very beginning, the first thing Joe talks about is quartz. Quartz is as much a part to Grand Seiko's identity as anything else they do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCv1dyH4Www
Meh, every group got a few of these quartz fanbois and auto/mechaneeks.
Looks at @OmegaXRolex's profile page
Truthfully I was hoping to see these Rolexes, Omegas and VCs he keep harping about. 15 years of collecting, prolly have as big a collection as JaeBust's at this point.
Don't worry Amin, he posted a totally not fake 16570 today on a cheap strap (because he self-outed his rep in other places) to show us all we do not know what we are doing. If you google his handle, he pulled the same nonsense on WUS and they then banned him within days and locked any thread he participated in. He joins forums, trolls, gets banned, then moves on.
Don't worry Amin, he posted a totally not fake 16570 today on a cheap strap (because he self-outed his rep in other places) to show us all we do not know what we are doing. If you google his handle, he pulled the same nonsense on WUS and they then banned him within days and locked any thread he participated in. He joins forums, trolls, gets banned, then moves on.
Strangely our friend here has A GS Soko Spring Drive. Does he know thats its part quartz? Or issit just the confidence spilling over again? 😂
Strangely our friend here has A GS Soko Spring Drive. Does he know thats its part quartz? Or issit just the confidence spilling over again? 😂
Right?! No one tell him, he thinks the sweep is magic and a dead seconds watch is for newbs.