My Holden Caulfield Problem
There are times when I throw a sarcastic comment here or there on one of your posts indicating that I disagree with the nomenclature that watch enthusiasts and collectors commonly use. This probably elicits eye-rolls that I can’t see and inevitably some angry responses that I can. If you are the sort that can brook no disagreement or disharmony, move on, go look at a post extolling the virtues of this watch or that, or vote in poll that will tell the hesitant which watch to buy.
“My Journey”
This makes my skin crawl. It makes me want to throw something at my computer. Comparing the habit of fairly wealthy people accumulating unnecessary watches to some sort of sojourn, perhaps spiritual in nature, is merely an attempt to ennoble a selfish and wasteful pursuit. (There is a sentence to disagree with, if you want.) It is entirely solipsistic. What we describe with a reference to “our journey” is merely our changing tastes as we are exposed to more variety and quality. When we buy our first big boy or big girl watch at a local department store we are well pleased. Eventually, it embarrasses us as we realize that we overpaid for a name. As we accumulate watches that we want, but don’t need, we self-justify and self-indulge. We are proud enthusiasts and collectors rather than mere animals impulsively gathering shiny objects and bits of string.
Why do I care what you call it? It is frankly hard to come up with another shorthand phrase that describes the migration of tastes through time. What about it irks me? Perhaps my contrarian nature is getting the better of my reasoning faculties? Years ago, I used to work wine tastings. I spent the better part of two years working for a large wine importer and retailer. Wine has a language, really more of a cant. To sell wine you must know your “tannic” from your “young”. Is that a hint of “tobacco” that I detect? Does it “hit the back of the throat”? Should we discuss “terroir”? I quickly learned that many buyers and sellers could not tell the good from the merely ok wine. This vocabulary was how they convinced themselves that they were “in the know”. Now, some did know, and the vocabulary was there to describe what was essentially indescribable. However, for most it was a class indicator, nothing more. When I used the cant to sell wine I knew that I was a poseur selling to other poseurs.
(My last four purchases are all 1940's, the Caulfield Era)
When I was a teenager J.D. Salinger’s The Catcher In The Rye was assigned reading in most American schools. I read it early. I read everything that Salinger ever wrote. It all resonated with me. I don’t know that Salinger is read as much today. For those of you who are from elsewhere, this was a novel describing a sordid weekend of teenaged Holden Caulfield who is kicked out of his boarding school and has to make his way home to New York. Caulfield is a confused and angry teen. Caulfield is concerned with authenticity. He rails impotently against “phonies” and sell-outs. He is angry at his writer brother who is a “prostitute” for writing in Hollywood. Once upon a time there was a little bit of Holden Caulfield in all American teen boys. I am not sure that is still the case.
“This watch speaks to me”
I think that this phrasing is borrowed from the art world. Degas’ use of light and color speaks to me. Frans Masereel’s gritty depictions of urban nightlife speak to me.
This phrase moves the source of the action. The collector is acted upon by the watch. It is not my fault that I bought this expensive watch or my 32nd Seiko, the ceramic bezel “spoke to me”. I went to the store to buy dish towels and the ones with the yellow kittens “spoke to me”. Buying a watch is not an artistic endeavor. There is no muse compelling you to shell out shekels for a bright bauble. Why must we dress it up? You bought it because you liked it. No shame there.
There are more such phrases in “our little hobby” but I won’t bore you with them. It may just be that the fourteen year old in me is still railing against the “phonies”. We can’t all think and describe things in a dismal sameness. So, I am consigned to my curmudgeon’s corner forever trying to prick linguistic balloons. I mean no offense. And by “no”, I mean “not much”.
(As a Salinger aside, there is one of his stories where a watch plays a central role: To Esmé, With Love And Squalor. I may have liked the story enough to borrow the girl’s name for one of my own offspring.)
Restitutor Orbis. Aristocrat of beauty. Autocrat of time. (Trying to perfect trolling over at theescapementroom.com)
This article spoke to me…
I think there should be a new "Aurelian" emoji, or maybe a hashtag. You can then apply it to each post, and we'll easily be able to sort the authentic from the phoney.
Thank you for taking us along on your journey!
I think this is a leap too far. To say something “spoke to me” doesn’t mean I surrendered all agency and had no choice but to purchase it. It may be offered as a rationale for a purchase, but that doesn’t imply that the purchaser had no choice (unless they’re using shorthand, being humorous, or their collecting is a true compulsion). It is just an attempt to go beyond “I bought it because I liked it” and provide an explanation either for oneself or for one’s audience regarding WHY one liked it. And, I’d argue, there’s no shame THERE.
In fact, I’ll turn to Joyce to express my view that the endeavor is often noble, just as you turned to Salinger to express your view that it’s often phony. I’ll quote from “A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man:” “To speak of these things and try to understand their nature, and having understood it, to try slowly and humbly and constantly to express…an image of the beauty we have come to understand—that is art.”
Of course, there are those who wax horological or oenophilic because they’re phony, or they think the communities of watches and wine require it, but I’m going to err on the side of assuming that folks are genuinely enthusiastic, are looking for meaning where they can whether they find it or not, and are trying to express what they see and feel whether or not they succeed in doing so as vividly as Salinger or Joyce.
And of course, there are plenty who do exactly as you wish: They post a picture of their new purple 63mm Invicta and just assert that they like it without composing an ode. There are some who do carry on at greater length. Surely both are ok, and neither is necessarily more likely to be phony than the other.
I guess I think overall that the jaundiced take has just as much history and validity, and can be as vivid or as shopworn, as the doe-eyed take. Both are art, just like the watches themselves. I come here for both, and am always glad to find them. I never roll my eyes when you post, because you’re one hell of a writer, so thanks and I hope you’ll keep it coming.
I love hearing your gears getting ground.
100% I am but a mere man-child gathering toys I like hahaha. But I still think I'm enthusiastic about it! Just ask my other watch friends who roll their eyes when I'm walking towards them: "here comes Hector...he has 'opinions' he'd like to discuss..."
Do I own too many Seikos and Casios? Likely. But I just plain like them. These are not heirlooms or badges of honor for me. Watching a little shiny thing move is fun!
I do think the Roamer you have there is quite nice though. I love it's design language. Jokes aside, I may just try vintage three handers some day.
I am "from elsewhere", and I had to read the book in school three times. (Twice in a German translation, and once in its original form.) I always considered Caulfield as a blend of Dostoyevsky's idiot and Don Quixote, and did not quite get the fascination.
The California wine scene I can agree on, having spent enough time in San Francisco. I lost a good friend over her taking the whole thing seriously. On the other hand, it's a whole lot of fun if you don't. I knew a restaurant owner, who was certain that one out of six bottles of wine were spoiled, because of the use of natural cork. Even though patrons were drinking something awfully acidic, very few returned the bottle, meaning that many customers could hardly tell wine from vinegar.
But then again, I'm not sure if something has to be authentic to be enjoyed. Or in that sense, I really don't mind how somebody frames the watch collecting hobby, as long as it pleases him or her.
I am "from elsewhere", and I had to read the book in school three times. (Twice in a German translation, and once in its original form.) I always considered Caulfield as a blend of Dostoyevsky's idiot and Don Quixote, and did not quite get the fascination.
The California wine scene I can agree on, having spent enough time in San Francisco. I lost a good friend over her taking the whole thing seriously. On the other hand, it's a whole lot of fun if you don't. I knew a restaurant owner, who was certain that one out of six bottles of wine were spoiled, because of the use of natural cork. Even though patrons were drinking something awfully acidic, very few returned the bottle, meaning that many customers could hardly tell wine from vinegar.
But then again, I'm not sure if something has to be authentic to be enjoyed. Or in that sense, I really don't mind how somebody frames the watch collecting hobby, as long as it pleases him or her.
Salinger's world was one of some privilege and was geographically rooted in a small part of the East Coast. I can't imagine it being universal enough to translate in German and resonate quite as well. I don't know that it was universal enough to be meaningful in rural Kansas or Louisiana. You have the Tin Drum for your post-war novel. Your point on wine is well-taken. Malcolm Gladwell tells the story of 2 Buck Chuck (now $3) and blind tasting.
Salinger's world was one of some privilege and was geographically rooted in a small part of the East Coast. I can't imagine it being universal enough to translate in German and resonate quite as well. I don't know that it was universal enough to be meaningful in rural Kansas or Louisiana. You have the Tin Drum for your post-war novel. Your point on wine is well-taken. Malcolm Gladwell tells the story of 2 Buck Chuck (now $3) and blind tasting.
I ran into that world still as a student, but that doesn't mean that I was able to fully relate. Even today, most of the people I report to are in NYC, and that divide is still very visible. I'm not sure if Salinger meant Caufield's quest to appear paradoxical, or if it was simply his own experience. And no, I'm positive that people in Kansas, Louisiana would not be able to easily relate to Salinger. I personally had more luck with Hemingway, Steinbeck, Vonnegut or Kerouac.
From my personal experience I would agree. Most people are not able to tell 2 Buck Chuck from more expensive wines, and even with some experience the cut-off is probably around $20, largely because people favor what they are used to.
How much does that translate to the watch world? Probably quite a bit, only the price levels are a little higher.
There are other pretentious hobbies, but I don’t think there are others (or few, anyway) that manage to exceed the pretension in the watch world. Too many people think their rudy poot little opinions are so right and so important, and they love to explain to you why you “just don’t get it.”
In the interest of transparency, I should confess that I am not above judgment when it comes to watches. If your watch costs more than a Ford Fiesta, there’s a part of me that thinks you’re a rube. That’s bad on my part, and I know it.
I'll tell ya, I don't mind the pretentiousness at all. I don't mind the elitism. In fact, I revel in it.
Why? Well, it's kinda like what Churchill said about democracy. The rich and the elite and the pretentious are the worst - except for all the others.
I walk around my neighborhood everyday - gotta walk the pups. And everywhere I look are poseurs, fakes, people who smile at you and mouth warm greetings but would just as soon stick a knife in your forehead if push came to shove. Everyone looks upon everyone else with envy. Everyone gossips. Everyone pretends virtue, when in fact they are only virtue signaling.
And, yet, the alternative is much, much, much worse still.
The single best verse in all of music throughout all recorded history was written by a clown named Art Alexakis, of the band Everclear, in their song, "I Will Buy You a New Life"
As someone who grew up with the joys of a welfare Christmas, surrounded by people of the same ilk, I can attest that while the pretentiousness of the rich and the striving is laughable, it is far, far preferable to the alternative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W05cPXpUHGI
In the interest of transparency, I should confess that I am not above judgment when it comes to watches. If your watch costs more than a Ford Fiesta, there’s a part of me that thinks you’re a rube. That’s bad on my part, and I know it.
I'll tell ya, I don't mind the pretentiousness at all. I don't mind the elitism. In fact, I revel in it.
Why? Well, it's kinda like what Churchill said about democracy. The rich and the elite and the pretentious are the worst - except for all the others.
I walk around my neighborhood everyday - gotta walk the pups. And everywhere I look are poseurs, fakes, people who smile at you and mouth warm greetings but would just as soon stick a knife in your forehead if push came to shove. Everyone looks upon everyone else with envy. Everyone gossips. Everyone pretends virtue, when in fact they are only virtue signaling.
And, yet, the alternative is much, much, much worse still.
The single best verse in all of music throughout all recorded history was written by a clown named Art Alexakis, of the band Everclear, in their song, "I Will Buy You a New Life"
As someone who grew up with the joys of a welfare Christmas, surrounded by people of the same ilk, I can attest that while the pretentiousness of the rich and the striving is laughable, it is far, far preferable to the alternative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W05cPXpUHGI
No, this infamy can not stand. Everclear can't touch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRYg2mvT_Ow
Your rant spoke to me. At least, I get it. 😀 On top of that, I like the way you write, and share your appreciation of Salinger. Your tangent on wine brought to mind the movie "Sideways." "Fucking Merlot," now there's a descriptive that is emphatic...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfwId5kCSlg
I cannot tell from the question if you are gently pulling my leg or asking a genuine question. I don't believe that watches "speak to me". I tend to buy brands rather than individual watches for vintage watches. I have a soft spot for the forgotten and underappreciated. The watches in this post are of that sort. I bought the Enicar and Roamer because those were two brands that have been on my radar for a while. They are both zombie brands today but were special in their time. @whitesalmon 's excellent eBay post had me playing with a sniping program and I bought them both on the same day. I am just as interested in the history of the industry and the various brands as I am in any individual watch. When you hunt for vintage watches "authenticity" is high on the list of requirements. So many Enicar and Roamer are just ghastly frankenwatches.
The term "pull the trigger" does not bother me in the least. It doesn't carry any implicit value judgment and I am not concerned about its martial connotations.
@Aurelian, I should have been clearer and used an emoji or something. I was trying to pull your leg with a reference to the cliched language of "pulling the trigger" which is now synonymous with "finally decided to buy the watch" and the earlier reference to watches (as opposed to say art, or music) that "speak to me." I was being ironic, or at least trying to!
My reference to "pulling the trigger" was an also somewhat veiled one to the "jerk of all jerks" who shot John Lennon and famously pulled out a copy of The Catcher in the Rye immediately afterwards as he was motivated on some perverse reading that he was himself the protagonist charged with ridding the world of those who lacked authenticity.
No matter. I agree with everything you wrote in your original post (and in your response to my somewhat daft comment).
Judgement? Absolutely.
Silent?
@Aurelian, I should have been clearer and used an emoji or something. I was trying to pull your leg with a reference to the cliched language of "pulling the trigger" which is now synonymous with "finally decided to buy the watch" and the earlier reference to watches (as opposed to say art, or music) that "speak to me." I was being ironic, or at least trying to!
My reference to "pulling the trigger" was an also somewhat veiled one to the "jerk of all jerks" who shot John Lennon and famously pulled out a copy of The Catcher in the Rye immediately afterwards as he was motivated on some perverse reading that he was himself the protagonist charged with ridding the world of those who lacked authenticity.
No matter. I agree with everything you wrote in your original post (and in your response to my somewhat daft comment).
I thought that you were, but I have been drinking brown liquor cocktails. I had forgotten about MDC.
I thought that you were, but I have been drinking brown liquor cocktails. I had forgotten about MDC.
Congratulations. On both fronts.
See more glass.
You say Seymour, I drink Saumur...
As rants go Mr @Aurelian can be articluate if not quixotic. To be a man of letters railing against the masses and their undereducated vernacular is a thankless task.
However, one cannot blame the masses for being as they are without pointing an accusing finger at the influences on the masses. Are we to blame social media, the education system or talking heads reviewing watches on Youtube for the literary standards here on WC? That is a question that could be the foundation of a truly contraversial poll and one for which I would gladly vote (F) What are you going to do about it?
Sorry to report that I actually talk like this in real life. What you miss in print are the long pauses where I attempt to find the precise word or formulate the best metaphor for the task at hand. It is not an act, or if it is then I have been at it so long that I can't stop.
One of the benefits to this site for some is that one may mechanically, through muting, create a watch forum with as much positivity as one may desire. That is too much like soma for me (😎 droppin' literary references again).
I cannot tell from the question if you are gently pulling my leg or asking a genuine question. I don't believe that watches "speak to me". I tend to buy brands rather than individual watches for vintage watches. I have a soft spot for the forgotten and underappreciated. The watches in this post are of that sort. I bought the Enicar and Roamer because those were two brands that have been on my radar for a while. They are both zombie brands today but were special in their time. @whitesalmon 's excellent eBay post had me playing with a sniping program and I bought them both on the same day. I am just as interested in the history of the industry and the various brands as I am in any individual watch. When you hunt for vintage watches "authenticity" is high on the list of requirements. So many Enicar and Roamer are just ghastly frankenwatches.
The term "pull the trigger" does not bother me in the least. It doesn't carry any implicit value judgment and I am not concerned about its martial connotations.
Actually, you bought the Enicar and Roamer because I have unwittingly had that influence on you. You’ve yet to admit it, grown exhausted of your American tanks and your Russian randoms, and you crave something more “exotic” or “exciting”. They didn’t speak to you, they were implanted into your mind by the other forum curmudgeon, who is happy his diabolical scheme is paying off. You’ll be picking up Olma and Edox next… they’re there, like a splinter, inside your mind.
You’ll be disappointed to know I sound like this in real life too; I swear like a navvie and I sound like an extra from Lock Stock despite my profession and standing within… I’m also under 40, just to really muddy the waters, despite the grumpy old man persona.
Perhaps we should all stop the long-form and stick to polls, avoid confusion and offence?
(Edit - these posts seem very weird out context, the subject of the response seems to have left the platform, leaving a one-sided discussion…)
Actually, you bought the Enicar and Roamer because I have unwittingly had that influence on you. You’ve yet to admit it, grown exhausted of your American tanks and your Russian randoms, and you crave something more “exotic” or “exciting”. They didn’t speak to you, they were implanted into your mind by the other forum curmudgeon, who is happy his diabolical scheme is paying off. You’ll be picking up Olma and Edox next… they’re there, like a splinter, inside your mind.
So unwittingly, in fact, that I had written a long form post on it not too long ago and tagged you. What could be more exotic than a bog standard Swiss three hander?
And yet, not long ago you bought a Raketa because the quirky Soviet stylings spoke to you. Who might have influenced that purchase 😉?
No, there is no Olma or Edox in my future (I lost a bidding war for an Edox a few months ago and then the fever broke). As I told @ChronoGuy in his recent post, I am targeting a specific era of Eterna and a specific model of a Mido Multifort. I only have one wrist and need to sell some things first.
So unwittingly, in fact, that I had written a long form post on it not too long ago and tagged you. What could be more exotic than a bog standard Swiss three hander?
And yet, not long ago you bought a Raketa because the quirky Soviet stylings spoke to you. Who might have influenced that purchase 😉?
No, there is no Olma or Edox in my future (I lost a bidding war for an Edox a few months ago and then the fever broke). As I told @ChronoGuy in his recent post, I am targeting a specific era of Eterna and a specific model of a Mido Multifort. I only have one wrist and need to sell some things first.
And funnily enough, I’ve been crushing hard on Eterna Kontiki on and off. It’s a weird back and forth…
“A gentleman’s choice of timepiece says as much about him as does his Saville Row suit.”
Because you love to quote out of context, it’s my turn:
Why not? We can write what we want.
My point though… you seem to have a problem with delivery, or with people potentially putting on an act via long-form prose. Most of us you are directing your ire at are not, we are very much WYSIWYG.
(Edit - these posts seem very weird out context, the subject of the response seems to have left the platform, leaving a one-sided discussion…)
So we can say what we like, but don’t, because you wouldn’t do that? I’m also going to advocate the use of the mute button.
The thread might be a relatively grumpy, and heavy on the wordage, and yes, literary quotes might tend to gravitate it towards a certain level of grandeur most users would tend to ignore (or despise), but to suggest it shouldn’t be on here is just your opinion. I couldn’t write a post like this, I’m not a scholar of literature, but most couldn’t write with the level of ire or self-righteousness I pack into 10 paragraphs. You’ve seen over the last year who is willing to write long-form content, and what you’re likely to get from it, and you don’t have to engage. You can also assume it’s an act, but I can guarantee you, most of us sound like we do when we type, we’re not established writers who can create caricatures of ourselves whilst taking about watches, I doubt we’re that clever (apologies if you are, but stop wasting your time on here). I’m an asshole, but I’m a saint: St Asshole.
Opinions are like Seikos, we all seem to have one.
(Edit - these posts seem very weird out context, the subject of the response seems to have left the platform, leaving a one-sided discussion…)
The only time that a watch spoke to me was in tongues and there may have been some alcohol involved.
Hilarious! I used one of your hated phrases before taking a deep dive into some of your older posts but I have since edited it to include an apology for eating peanuts on the plane without bring aware of another's allergy. Be well!