Chinese watches

Chinese or India… doesn’t matter. If the quality is there… if the aesthetic is there… it should be appreciated and worn if desired.

None of the above for many different reasons.

Atelier Wen for the win.

Generalizing by country is problematic especially when internal parts might be supplied from all over. In fact many of the Chinese watches shown in WC often have Japanese movements. Seagull accounts for more than 20% of the worlds mechanical and automatic movements by volume with a majority going to outside of china brands.

Another direction… I don’t think you can get anything meaningful out of grouping Zepplin watches to ALS watches just because they are from Germany. Same with VC and a swatch

I have a Sugess and a San Martin. Both were well worth the price.

You can have or buy anything from anywhere IF and only IF you know who to buy from. There's little golden nuggets everywhere.

BWF

I think you have to ask this question first. Does it look and/or feel like a fashion watch, which means a throw away piece depending on the price. Or does it have qualities that speak to better workmanship. Without touching and handling it, I would walk away unless it’s around $150 bucks.

Clearly the advice not to buy has made an impression on you. You may find it difficult to ever accept a Chinese or Indian watch as legitimate. You may be subject to a bias as a result. I suggest your satisfaction with a watch may likely be impacted by these prejudices. For the sake of your happiness, don't even look.

If it's inexpensive enough and you enjoy it...who cares where it's made?

Should someone avoid cheap plastic watches from Switzerland (yes Swatch I'm looking at you)?

@Porthole has ranted before about cheap pin-lever Swiss watches...

I must admit...I have been seduced by all of the above scarlet ladies...why are Chinese watches any different?

And for Frankenwatches...don't limit yourself to India...you can add Turkey to that list as well. You could also add Ukraine (but they have enough problems already).

Here are some that cost less than $150...vintage or modern...from a variety of countries (Switzerland, China/Hong Kong, Russia, France...)

I've heard Starking, Pagani Design and Shanghai Watch Factory watches are not bad.

I own a watch from CIGA Design and I wish every other watch I bought came in package that was as good as the one that CIGA use. It's been with me for a couple of years now and I can't report any problems with fit, finish or movement so far.

I also own a 62MAS recreation from San martin and it's a much better 62MAS than my SPB147 and it even surpass it as a watch in many areas.

So my bottom line is that one should not take country of origin as a criteria for quality or being able to enjoy wearing a watch.

I would keep in mind that practically all the microbrands are made in China. They are Chinese made with other branding.

I've bought San Martin and been very impressed and happy. They do have original designs.

If you're seeking horology credentials, then sea gull has history going back as far as some mid Swiss brands.

I own a Megalith , Skmei, Diray, Pindows, Fox Box and a few others that I can't remember and most of them are verry cool. 👍 Sometimes the instructions are worthless though.

I own a ton of Chinese watches (more than 40) and I have never even heard of Longio and Memorigin. I would say the following:

• not all Chinese watchbrands are the same; you get different levels of QC, especially when it comes to movements; I mention that because I have heard general statements about Chinese watches on WC that lump them all together

• not all Chinese watch brands are different; some belong to larger groups, possibly made in the same factory, with similar strengths and weaknesses; an example would be Parnis/Corgeut/Tandorio

• most Chinese brands do a lot of homage watches, from design clones to merely inspired-by models; this is because that's what customers buy from them

• there is an element of you-get-what-you-pay-for, but beware some dear ones are simply overpriced

Sea-gull is the best established of the lot you mentioned, but you tend to pay extra for the branding.

Not to repeat what others already mentioned: Baltany is a fine brand that specialises on vintage looks. When it comes to digital watches, Xonix deserves more recognition than they get.

It's not a touchy subject once you get past the copying of designs and general prejudice.

I've yet to have a problem with any of my Chinese watches. The finishing is good, and on a couple the movements accurate. Quite a few are available on Amazon so you probably have better return rights than AliX if that's a concern.

The general China bashing is old hat, unless you're worried about the trade wars. And to be honest, I couldn't care less which overpriced western option is being undercut.

We don't pose these same questions about cheap Timex or Casios.

Very true what you said about Swiss pin-pallets. That's the reason when I buy vintage (or new, for that matter) that "Swiss Made" doesn't hold as much weight as the marketing would want it to.

I'm currently fantasising about a vintage Chinese watch. Maybe something from Tianjin or Sea-Gull. With vintage Chinese, I'm assuming the quality to be something like vintage Soviet. Simple, basic, no frills timekeeping that's a little more crude than the competition. Modern Chinese however is changing that. I still wouldn't buy a Chinese watch yet, but that has more to do with style and politics. I'll not get into the politics lest I commit suicide by a bullet in the back of the head, but I find most Chinese brands don't have a Chinese style. What I mean is, so many Chinese brands are trying very hard to make something Western, meanwhile, if I'm buying a Chinese watch, I want it to be Chinese. I think that's part of the reason the Sea-Gull 1963 did so well. 21 Zuan, not 21 jewels. Give me some Mandarin script on the dial; that alphabet is beautiful. Don't write specs in English; that's like the Swiss engraving Brazilian Portuguese specs into their casebacks. I'll consider buying a new Chinese watch when brands start embracing thier identity, not trying to hide it. Merkur has already caught my attention.

You should have a look at what Maison Celadon makes.

I think we can speak of "chinese craftmanship" with no doubt !

Going to have to disagree with you my man: there are several great Chinese brands like Atelier Wen on the higher end and Sea-Gull on the more affordable end; San Martin, SteelDive, etc, do not belong in that conversation… in my opinion, nothing they do is ‘killing it’, they’re mostly glorified copies that — while I can understand the average joe appreciating — hold zero significance to enthusiasts; you might as well try convincing a sneaker enthusiast about the merits of Abibas or Mikey sneakers. Brands like that unfortunately continue to feed stereotypes of the Chinese market as they ape popular Swiss pieces and detract from the efforts of some of the country’s fine watchmakers. Even the owner of San Martin seemingly lamented the need to create these copies, saying he does them only because his own designs don’t sell — sad because he does have some interesting original designs. Just my two cents though.

Apologies @skydave for the erroneous first post, the iOS app is a little buggy.

@Amusa82 Atelier Wen and Maison Celadon.

Spaghetti scametti

There’s a difference between ‘derivative’ and wholesale completely ripping off every popular design, which is what is funny about the ‘design’ in the name — there is none. Perhaps it’s because I’m a designer myself but there is absolutely no justification for straight-up plagiarism. Homages are usually derivative up to a point and are respected, be it song, art, design, or watches; the watches you speak of are not homages, they’re copies with a different logo.

Regarding ‘value’ that’s a moot argument in this case. We all know that these costs are inflated across the board, but trying to apply logic to the luxury market is pointless. That aside, the cost isn’t only defined by the design of the watch, it’s also the pedigree, heritage, marketing and in many cases the design and development costs that go into creating it in the first place. Copycat industries skip all of those incurred costs by plagiarising and riding the goodwill earned by the originals so the same argument does not apply. Furthermore, you can’t argue ‘value’ when these ‘brands’ are replicating already affordable £200 - £300 Seiko designs (look up their Seiko cocktail time and Turtle copies). You can get a great affordable watch without resorting to propping up these questionable practices. The bottom line is that they target a market that wants *any* watch, from £300 Seikos, to £1000 Longines, to £6000 Omegas but just doesn’t want to part with the full price. And no matter how it’s spun, most people enthusiastic about this hobby would give more respect if they just supported proper affordable brands like a Seiko or a Hamilton.

Being happy is what’s important at the end of the day — and just as I personally can’t see any justification for it, their customers do not need to validate it to anyone else either; it is what it is. But no, they do not belong in the same conversation as Chinese brands/watchmakers like Atelier Wen; and the OP specifically asked for ‘fresh new designs’ — that doesn’t apply when the design isn’t yours to begin with. We can agree to disagree. 🍻

I always thought this looked like a fun way to troll Apple fanboys. (Full disclosure—I am an Apple fanboy.)

I'd rather go without a watch than a Chinese one

Tbh I feel like the Thaï are at it as well.. look at Wise, they’re insane!

I 100% vote for Seagull Watches