Im annoyed / Seiko GMT - The upcoming SPB381J1
I am without a Dive watch and this category is next in my collection, I have also wanted a GMT watch for when I travel (infrequently, but ya know... where there's a need, there's a watch...)
I am also in the price bracket where Seiko would be my natural choice, and I generally like Seiko watches
So imagine my surprise when they announced the SPB381J1, a heritage reinterpretation of a legacy dive with GMT functionality
https://www.seikowatches.com/uk-en/products/prospex/special/1968_gmt/index
This is where my gripes come in...
firstly the date is at 4.30... I know that some people don't mind the date at 4 30, but I don't fully understand that choice given the arrangement of complications is ordinarily symmetrical on any typically arranged watch that isn't doing something off deliberately, for me anyway this design choice irks me.
secondly, the GMT function is an office GMT and not a true GMT... whilst this point for me in the UK is something of a moot or pedantic complaint, I would have liked for it to be a true GMT from a functionality POV
https://calibercorner.com/seiko-caliber-6r54/
Thirdly, the price point... these are looking to retail at £1400 quid, which for me is at the edge of what I am currently able to throw at a watch... I think that the design overall is beautiful, and I very much like the green version... I would find it much easier to justify this cost were it the case that the date window was at 6 and it was a true GMT... at that point, you can (almost) take my money.
Lastly, the recent model S GMT..
https://www.seikowatches.com/uk-en/news/20220608
These watches have received a tonne of disappointment for what is perceived as a tacked-on GMT and a poor-quality clasp on the bracelet. Whilst I know this is not a 1:1 comparison, and the statement on the SPB381J1 is that it's "equipped with a high quality machined three-fold clasp with secure lock and divers’ extension piece." but that stated quality remains to be seen and felt...
to add to this, I have recently found out about a microbrand who has produced a true GMT diver of similar design at a much more affordable price point, (and the date at 6!!!!) but unfortunately, this run has sold out and having contacted them, they advise that they will not be producing another run... so, yer... too late to the secret party on that one.
https://zeloswatches.com/products/mako-300m-gmt-malachite-timekeepers-edition
So, I'm going to stop complaining now, I don't know about you, but I do a good deal of research on watches before I buy them so that I know fully what I'm getting so that I can wear it with pride and tell all of my friends who are not into watches all about the granular specifics of this incredible functional jewellery that I invested in.
I feel like Seiko are starting to drop the ball on the consumer market, and also feel that I ultimately have ruled out this watch in my diligent investigation.
Am I unusual in this level of investigation? am I being picky about wanting the date at 3 or 6?
Has Seiko Dropped the ball?
/drops ranting mic
I'm Steve, and I'm just starting out with my watch collection., I have 5 so far, and a fancy box for them to live in. Picture is the new Sekio SPB381 Diver GMT, potentially the next thing on my want l...
I just picked up the Zelos Frost GMT -- you might want to see if there are any available on eBay. I know that there was at least one person in the Zelos Timekeepers Facebook Group that had decided to sell theirs.
Possible alternatives?
Gavox Longitude: https://www.gavox.com/product/gavox-longitude/
Jack Mason Strat-o-Timer: https://jackmasonbrand.com/products/stratotimer-gmt?variant=41806055112886
Boldr Odyssey Freediver (Cons: [for me] 44mm and unidirectional bezel): https://www.boldrsupply.co/products/odyssey-freediver-gmt-sp1961?variant=43418812711142¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=CjwKCAjwge2iBhBBEiwAfXDBR4humO0I-k1uU_27SIThNScpjLLmqO8IBcVRsO-fw30tQGgVzITD1BoCMooQAvD_BwE
From a functional point of view, the date window at 4:30 lines up more directly with the wearer’s POV than either the 3:00 or 6:00 positions. It’s a much easier and convenient way to use the date function.
Typically, those who complain about the 4:30 date have only seen them from photos taken straight on and it is admittedly asymmetric. However, if function and ease of use are more important than stock photos of a watch, then the 4:30 position is the best option.
Most definitely. I am a Seiko fan, but they are losing it lately. For that price would save half and look an an Islander or Zelos.
I just picked up the Zelos Frost GMT -- you might want to see if there are any available on eBay. I know that there was at least one person in the Zelos Timekeepers Facebook Group that had decided to sell theirs.
Possible alternatives?
Gavox Longitude: https://www.gavox.com/product/gavox-longitude/
Jack Mason Strat-o-Timer: https://jackmasonbrand.com/products/stratotimer-gmt?variant=41806055112886
Boldr Odyssey Freediver (Cons: [for me] 44mm and unidirectional bezel): https://www.boldrsupply.co/products/odyssey-freediver-gmt-sp1961?variant=43418812711142¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=CjwKCAjwge2iBhBBEiwAfXDBR4humO0I-k1uU_27SIThNScpjLLmqO8IBcVRsO-fw30tQGgVzITD1BoCMooQAvD_BwE
Thank you for your useful suggestions, very useful. they all make use of the Miyota 9075, which I guess is the GMT movement du jour at this price point. I guess that Seiko are recouping loss at their price point for the in-house movement.
From a functional point of view, the date window at 4:30 lines up more directly with the wearer’s POV than either the 3:00 or 6:00 positions. It’s a much easier and convenient way to use the date function.
Typically, those who complain about the 4:30 date have only seen them from photos taken straight on and it is admittedly asymmetric. However, if function and ease of use are more important than stock photos of a watch, then the 4:30 position is the best option.
That's a good point @Davemcc which I honestly hadn't considered... so a valuable point, perhaps I should pay a visit to an AD to try on... I am a step back now on this particular gripe
That's a good point @Davemcc which I honestly hadn't considered... so a valuable point, perhaps I should pay a visit to an AD to try on... I am a step back now on this particular gripe
I have two watches with the 4:30 date window and I have no complaints about either. I have started to prefer it.
Most definitely. I am a Seiko fan, but they are losing it lately. For that price would save half and look an an Islander or Zelos.
If you can get a Zelos.😉
I have two watches with the 4:30 date window and I have no complaints about either. I have started to prefer it.
Thank you, appriciated
Thank you for your useful suggestions, very useful. they all make use of the Miyota 9075, which I guess is the GMT movement du jour at this price point. I guess that Seiko are recouping loss at their price point for the in-house movement.
You specifically requested a traveler's GMT. The Miyota 9075 was just launched late last year, so it's only in a few watches right now, but it's the only way to get a high-beat traveler's GMT movement from a mass ebauche manufacturer (ETA, Sellita, Miyota, Seiko [by way of SII or TMI], Soprod, STP, LJP, etc.) at a reasonable price.
I suppose there are Powermatic based options from ETA, such as that found in the Mido Oceanstar GMT and Tissot's new GMT diver, which are other options, I suppose, but I tend to dislike the Powermatic movements, so I didn't consider them.
The next step up would be Kenissi's traveler's GMT movement used in models from Tudor, Norqain, etc., but at that point you're talking about $4K+ pieces, which is a stratosphere away price-wise.
The latest revision of ISO 6425 requires a marker on the dial at 5 min intervals. The first version of the SPB143 had only a date at 3. This doesn't pass the current spec. Current SPB143 dials have a partial marker at 3 next to the date to meet spec. Given the location of the date and the inclusion of the 24 hour rehaut on this watch I think they would have had to put the marker inboard of the date and that would look odd. Or drop the Diver's spec.
At any rate it seems they opted for complete markers with the date at 4.5. It looks to me like the date wheel is at least color matched and I think in practice under real world conditions the date won't be too obtrusive. It sticks out more in photos.
Old SPB
New SPB
Explanation of the new ISO stuff here:
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/im-celebrating-my-one-year-anniversary-with-the-seiko-prospex-spb143-by-answering-your-questions
Or you can get all the Seiko SSK GMTs for the same price. Only 100m WR though and still the office GMT.
From a functional point of view, the date window at 4:30 lines up more directly with the wearer’s POV than either the 3:00 or 6:00 positions. It’s a much easier and convenient way to use the date function.
Typically, those who complain about the 4:30 date have only seen them from photos taken straight on and it is admittedly asymmetric. However, if function and ease of use are more important than stock photos of a watch, then the 4:30 position is the best option.
I think we're going to see a lot more Diver's watches with the date at 4:30, because the new ISO standards require lumed markers at 12-3-6-9, so no more replacing the marker at 3 with the date window. Of course, if they aren't going for the ISO, then they can do whatever they want. But Seiko like the certification, so this is the way.
Date at 3 or 6 is better, but this is fine IMO. This type of GMT is more than good enough as long as you are not a globetrotter. And you will never pay full price for this. May half or close on sale or in like-new condition used.
However... I would like to se a signed crow. A bit smaller case. And I wouldn't mind this being Solar either 😅
Yes I can't justify the price of the new seiko neither.. you should have a look into a formex reef gmt at that price point. Probably way better finish than the seiko. I quite like with the myota gmt the new traska also even if it is not a diver. it remind me of an old seamaster. If you can stretch a bit the new longines gmt is great looking in more a travelerXdiver style or look for an old seamaster gmt. Bit pricey now but awesome watches 😉
It seems like many watches that have 4:30 date windows actually have them at like 4:35 or 4:40 and this seems to be the same. Meaning, that the date window appears closer to the 5 marker than the 4 marker, which can be off-putting to some. I don't mind it, personally. I have two 4:30 date window watches, one Seiko and one Marathon, and both are like this.
You specifically requested a traveler's GMT. The Miyota 9075 was just launched late last year, so it's only in a few watches right now, but it's the only way to get a high-beat traveler's GMT movement from a mass ebauche manufacturer (ETA, Sellita, Miyota, Seiko [by way of SII or TMI], Soprod, STP, LJP, etc.) at a reasonable price.
I suppose there are Powermatic based options from ETA, such as that found in the Mido Oceanstar GMT and Tissot's new GMT diver, which are other options, I suppose, but I tend to dislike the Powermatic movements, so I didn't consider them.
The next step up would be Kenissi's traveler's GMT movement used in models from Tudor, Norqain, etc., but at that point you're talking about $4K+ pieces, which is a stratosphere away price-wise.
What do you dislike about the powermatic? Is it the silicon hairspring?
Seriously, what's happening with this person? Is he really Groot?
What do you dislike about the powermatic? Is it the silicon hairspring?
The Powermatic has multiple things that I'm not a fan of. For example, I don't like: (1) the trade from the 28800 vph (4Hz) beat rate to the lower 21600 vph (3Hz) beat rate to extend the power reserve; (2) the use of plastic parts in what was previously an all metal movement; and (3) the fact that they removed the fine adjustment screw for easy regulation of the watch by a watchmaker.
I don't mind most of the design decisions, but I did wonder why they opted for the caller 6r54 Vs the 6r64 travellers in the Sharp edge GMTs.
In a word: cost.
"True" GMT watches have their place. But for most people, they're a pain in the ass. If you wear it continuously, no problem. But if you let it stop running, have fun setting the date.
I love both my GMT watches - one of each type. The "office" GMT gets the job done and is easier to use.
"True" GMT is just hype.
Personally I don't like date at 4.30 and usualy puts me off from the watch itself. More concernig for me is latest price positioning Seiko is taking. This watch at 1.600€ and some latest pricing positions are really pushing the limits of where Seiko fans ( I am still one of them ) are prepared to go. For this movement and general specs with known Seiko QC issues ( probably not mitigated here ) and sub par bracelets I would much rather spend my money elswhere
Personally I think it's a good price when you consider it's position in the Prospex range - and the price will come down in time.
Calm down, everything will be all right, what seems to be the problem?
Date at 04:30? be glad it's there and not placed in a random location on the dial like they did with the SCC solar chrono. It's symmetrically located, color matched, and they spared you the cyclops. Truly, you should feel blessed in this regard.
Caller GMT instead of Traveler GMT? You will thank them the first time you'll need to quick set a date.
Price point? OK, you got me there. It's a 700-900US$ masquerading as a +1.5KUS$. Seiko does offer a lot of value, it's just that this time the balance is favoring the brand and not the customer.
Bracelet quality? Have you seen what they consider as "acceptable quality" bracelets? If you did then don't be surprised if their definition of what is a high quality bracelet may somewhat differ from your expectations.
"True" GMT watches have their place. But for most people, they're a pain in the ass. If you wear it continuously, no problem. But if you let it stop running, have fun setting the date.
I love both my GMT watches - one of each type. The "office" GMT gets the job done and is easier to use.
"True" GMT is just hype.
I’ve never found setting the date on a Traveler’s GMT to be much of an issue, especially since you can go forwards or backwards to get to where you need to go. As such, you’re never more than 16 days away from where you need to be.
As a bonus, they’re way easier to deal with come November when DST ends and we have to fall back an hour. You can just snap the hour hand back an hour and continue along with your day, without ever having to stop your watch.
No I don’t think they have. I think you need to look somewhere else. For example. The gripe people have with office GMT’s as you do is a bit silly . I own bth versions and unless you’re a long haul pilot (I’m a pilot) that needs to keep track of UTC there is no reason to get a true GMT. For travelling, the office GMT is much more functional and way easier to set.
Your exactly where is was last week. I couldn’t find anything under the price of a Tudor. The Longines was nice but I wasn’t impressed with the case. I have a few others coming so I didn’t want to drop big money on anything but I actually wanted a 24 hour bezel so I passed on the MIDO but that is a good looking watch if you’re ok with the 2 zones. Only 50mts of water resistance but I don’t plan on going diving. It has the Miyota 9075 in it and a turning bezel for £699. You can get 10%off if you sign up to the news letter. The Seiko Perspex GMT is a traveler as well I think https://www.chisholmhunter.co.uk/seiko-presage-sharp-edged-gmt-mens-watch-spg219j1.html?
utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=16887120715&utm_content=134246100894&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpPKiBhDvARIsACn-gzA1URgewSRRS_BCeAbZSxJh6o7bQs4mEc46ygnMsLDS
I bought this
https://www.marloewatchcompany.com/
I think we're going to see a lot more Diver's watches with the date at 4:30, because the new ISO standards require lumed markers at 12-3-6-9, so no more replacing the marker at 3 with the date window. Of course, if they aren't going for the ISO, then they can do whatever they want. But Seiko like the certification, so this is the way.
This is not accurate. The new ISO specs actually call for lumed markers on the dial at every five minutes.
Dive bezel, travel gmt, affordable
It is solar quartz though so not sure if that’ll be a problem for you
I do prefer dates at 3 or 6 but for me it doesn’t really matter. Hope you get the one you prefer
A couple months ago when I was looking for my first diver two of the ones I was considering were the Midos Ocean Star which is a true GMT and the Seiko SPB207 which is a MM200 1968 reinterpretation.
And then I saw the prerelease announcement of these new MM200 GMT 1968. The green dial I believe is the same color: gorgeous
I considered if the higher price was justified: GMT, ceramic bezel, but I think the GMT adds more clutter to the dial because being a diver first, the bezel is the 60 min scale and the 24 hour scale is in the inner ring which I think looks crumped in this case width.
The Midos gets away with it by being larger in diameter.
I finally bought the SPB207 which I love and I think the cleaner dial helps to make the green sunburst more visible.
I will probably get a GMT in the future but I prefer it to be in a dedicated watch so I get the 24 bezel, not sure if true GMT is the best option as others pointed out, it has disadvantages for setting the date. The Sharp Edged True GMT in blue looks amazing in my opinion....
Here is my SPB207, I got it new for 1150 euros. And it comes with a bracelet which I think is very good quality and a silicone strap in dark green matching the dial color