Price of Watches (Microbrands vs Established Brands)

Do you currently own any micros?

Depends what you’re looking for. Many micros give you more experimental designs and materials at a better price. Two of the brands you mentioned (Zelos and Maen) are largely under $1000, so hard to compare those two to the brands you mentioned. Zelos offers many unique designs, good build quality and a Sellita movement. A comparable Aquis is almost double the price at MSRP. In some cases, one could argue greater care is put into the releases vs a mass produced brand.

Now if you look at brands like Monta, Fears, Norqain, etc, in my experience with each, they are built to a better level of quality than mainstream brands in their range, and arguably above. IE, the Monta bracelet is better than any of the brands mentioned. Norqain watches, like Sinn, seem like they could take a beating.

Ultimately, it all depends on what you are looking for. All the big brands you mentioned, with perhaps the exception of Sinn, are grossly overpriced at MSRP due to their distribution model. They are awesome buys via grey and even better used. Hard to go wrong with any, but some of this big brands are not offering anything new and that’s where the new brands help fill a void. Again, buy what you like regardless.

I do not (yet) - but have my eyes on both a Maen (manhattan 37) & CW Sealander GMT - just trying to save money atm

thank you for the comprehensive explanation/response

If you value safety and security ... oh screw it, who are we kidding, most microbrands are using established movements so this is all moot. The big establishment boring stuff will be the choice of a passionless Vulcan mindset, so if the shoe fits, that's your answer.

I thought this was going to be about that bar graph of where the money goes for each that I saw this morning. Unsurprisingly, the microbrands spent way more on actual product, the establishment pissed money away on nonsense.

I have an Oris Big Crown Pointer Date. MSRP is $1950 (for my version). It's a great watch. I love it. But I also own a Monta Noble. MSRP is $1795. The movement is better (Sellita SW-300 versus the Sellita SW-200 in my Oris) and the finishing is at the same level or better. Same with the bracelet. I love the Oris bracelet but the Monta is on another level. So, basically, I'm paying less for a better watch. But one has the Oris name on the dial and the other has the Monta name. What that's worth to you is what will make you decide to buy one versus the other. In a world where almost nobody cares what's on your wrist, buy the watch that gives you all the feels regardless of what it says on the dial.

Micro brands are not stuck to one or two models for 50-60 years as some big brands have. I own many micro brands and their specs are as good as larger watch groups. You see more original designs and use of different movements and materials in these smaller brands.

Well buy what you like and spend what you can sensibly.

Enjoy the watch!

Cheers!

I'll begin by saying I have never wanted to pay more than about $1000 for a microbrand watch and, at this point in my collecting life, happily have none in my collection. With that out of the way...

I have absolutely no doubt some people see the value in the microbrands that often come from nowhere and, with a sprinkle of fairy dust, or a gimmick (like that UK brand who made watchbacks out of the engine of a crashed Spitfire, or any of them who do ridiculously tiny artisan-style runs of watches), charge a sizeable chunk of change for what they're offering. No doubt at all - and good on them, I say.

I've just never been that amazed by any of them to the degree that I've actually wanted one, instead of getting something with genuine heritage and, if I hit financial issues, or I just want a change of scenery, will be easy to sell, for a good price. Try hitting the open market with an obscure microbrand (which may even be out of business in the future, thus blowing away any warranty too), and trying to find someone willing to pay a large chunk of change for it. You may find someone, but the probability is much lower.

And I know there are people who are quick say, "Oh, I NEVER sell my watches!" and maybe that's true for them (maybe it's not; who can really say?), but I reckon most 'watch people' sell at least some watches over time and unless you like taking a hit on the price, or maybe not selling the piece at all because the brand's just too obscure and weird and unknown to the wider public, I'd stick with heritage brands.

While micros maybe hit and miss … they create way more original stuff then the big boys … I’ve just found micros require research and the big brands require money

First, let me be clear that I do not buy watches as an investment in any way. And I have a modest 3-watch collection with each one costing a few thousand. Having said that, it always crossed my mind that it might be more prudent to err on an established brand should I want to sell a watch and get a replacement. But that's just me and my own financial situation.

If you can afford to truly collect and have many more watches and you enjoy the uniqueness of each piece then by all means go for the microbrand. If you're like me and love watches but are more "conservative" about how many you own and worry about selling/upgrading/changing watches in the future I kind of prefer my gameplan. There's no wrong answer - as long as you're buying within your means.

That's what I was saying, earlier in the thread. I think resale always has to be part of the conversation because, again like I said earlier, most 'watch people' sell at least some watches over time. Although I see them from time to time online, I'm yet to meet a watch person in real life who hasn't sold a watch or two, at least, at some stage in their collecting life. And these people aren't 'flippers' and they aren't people on skid row, selling a watch to survive. They're simply people who have gotten sick of a watch, or maybe have too many of the same kind of watch, or want to sell a few watches to get a single, more expensive, watch.

The reasons for selling are many - which is why many watch people sell watches. And, as a result, I think it's a no-brainer to be dealing in watches that can be resold more easily. Unless you really, really love a particular microbrand model, or you have so much spare cash it just doesn't matter what you buy, I reckon the smart(er) money will always be with heritage brands. No apologies; it's just the reality of the market.

You need to figure out what appeals to you with regard to watches. For some people history, heritage, brand name, etc., matter a great deal. To others that stuff is marketing fluff, and they want the best quality physical watch their money can buy.

As for the resale stuff, it's easily avoided by only buying what you love, and accepting that unless it's a few brands or specific models, you will always lose money selling. Some microbramds like Monta, CW, and Zelos sell as well or better than Seiko, Hamilton, or Tissot.

In short its mostly about the vibe - want a vibe of being part of a long tradition etc - go the established brand. Want the vibe of sticking it to the man, disrupting the industry etc go microbrand.

Everything else is a rationalisation of the vibe you're after.

PS - after I posted I noticed you're Australian - I reckon this effects the argument too. Watches seemed to be priced wildly differently around the world. American brand-name MSRPs often seem significantly higher that here and the ways taxes work screws everything up also which seems to mess with this discussion.

I have both the Sinn 556i and the Monta Triumph. Both great watches. The Monta is the more expensive of the two. And when you have them both in hand, under a loupe, or on wrist it’s clear the Monta is well worth price, as is the Sinn.

As for the resale value question, I’m a collector not a flipper. I buy watches to wear not to sell.

Microbrand is a bit of an all-encompassing term and can include companies that produce dozens, hundreds or even thousands of watches on an annual basis.

And the costs can vary from watches costing one to two hundred dollars, pounds and euros all the way into the tens-of-thousands.

Last year, I purchased a watch from Wolbrook, a French company that many would consider to be a microbrand. The watch cost a little under $200 USD. For the money, it's a great watch. I also purchased a watch last year from Timex, definitely not a microbrand. This watch also sells for a little under $200 USD. While a very nice watch, I would rank it a notch down from my Wolbrook in terms of build quality, design and specifications.

The economies of scale favour Timex in this scenario, but the Wolbrook is without a doubt a better buy. An established brand will not necessarily be of better quality for the price. Seiko is an example of this in my opinion. Many of the AliExpress homages will run circles around a genuine Seiko in terms of build quality and value for money.

The best advice I can give is buy a watch because you want to wear it; not a watch others want you to wear.

As someone mentioned above, a lot of microbrands do more experimenting.

but also, the cost for a microbrand is way higher that big brands - buying in movements instead of making in house, building cases (I have learned that especially bracelets are really expensive) to more marketing cost. So if a microbrand wants to make money and have some margin then the slightly higher price is necessary 😊

I hear you, but we were not talking Tudor; The OP discussed the likes or Oris, Longines, etc. Tudor is in a different class of watch, both in price and quality.

I have both big brands and a bunch of micros from cheap China to Wise, CW. The CW I’d put up there with anything in the price range ~1000 USD. I all most bought a Monta it was close. Monta is beautiful and the fit and finish is great. Yet, hold and feel a BB GMT or a Speedy and they just seem a cut above (those 2 are 3k USD and up). Brand is only part of the decision, go slow, look in your price range and get what feels and looks right to you. Good micro brands will allow you 30 days and up to return. Reputation IS important for peace of mind and resale but so much more to it than just that. Lots of people are making great watches so do you research and name is only a part of the equation. YouTube is a great resource but choose who you trust, pretty easy to figure out who’s real.

I was going to say the same. Like you, I have watches from a luxury brand (well, 1 luxury brand watch to date), watches from the established big brands on the affordable side like Timex and Seiko and a bunch of watches from lesser known brands. Even a Chinese homage or two. Or three. Since I'm in the early stage of my watch collecting hobby, I'm just trying to discover what works and what doesn't work for me.

I'm finding that I'm more attracted to lesser known brands the more I know about watches. Resale value and reputation are nice to have but they are becoming less and less crucial for me to pull the trigger on watches. What I think is happening is that I'm identifying with certain brands, ie not a Rolex person, I'm a Yema person. I have neither but if someone were to gift me one of those I know I would choose Yema. Of course Yema!

This is not to say that I don't aspire to own the established brands. Time and time again, I said I want to own a second Omega. And JLC. Of course JLC! But in terms of pure excitement for watches, I keep looking at the micros and getting such a thrill at the possibility of owning them that there's very little space left in me to care about established brands. Another plain jane Tag Heuer? Nah, I'm getting that Sugess Tourbillon!

Yuuup. I could get a nice cut of beef in the supermarket, grab some garlic, butter, salt, pepper, oil, etc and make myself a nice piece of steak at a 5th of the price I would pay if I went to a restaurant. I don't go to a restaurant and complain that at the supermarket that 100 USD steak would only cost... er... I don't know... let's say 20 USD. I feel the same way about watches. Like you, it doesn't matter to me where the money went. Even if someone said the materials on a particular watch should only cost so-and-so, what am I supposed to do? Buy the raw materials and make my own watch? I go to a Gordon Ramsay restaurant to experience Gordon Ramsay steak--that's the value, at least for me. Who cares if 80% of what I paid went to Gordon Ramsay himself and only 20% was spent in materials?

@joshuawerdiger

I am not going down the rabbit hole of micros vs established blah blah so I'll just say this. Buy what you like. I would recommend staying with anything that uses a decent movement to avoid paying for junk.

I can personally attest to Maen's quality and value as I own a LE Maen Huson and absolutely love it.

The finishing is nice, the swiss made ronda movement is reliable and the watch is a good comfortable wearable size for my wrist.

I would buy another Maen watch in an instant if I had room in my collection and I may yet make room for another

I don't have much to add since I don't own any microbrands. I have trouble pulling the trigger on watches I haven't had on my wrist. The more expensive the microbrand, the harder it is. Monta seems nice, but I'll take a Longines Spirit over it every day of the week. I've tried the Spirit on several times and know exactly how it feels (it's high on my must-buy list). And yeah, I know that most MBs have great return policies, but I don't live in NA or Europe, so returns pose a problem.

As others have said: buy what you like. There are a lot of Microbrand designs that interest me and that I would probably buy even above $1000 except for one issue. My issue is the fact that I can't see or try on most Microbrands in person. It's one thing to take a chance on a $300-$500 watch sight unseen. It is another thing to pay $1k+ on such a watch. I guess that's why I only have 1 Microbrand in my collection ($350) though I have several more on my list.

From my experience and we all have different ones, some of the so called micro brands represent fantastic value for money using branded tried and tested movements in higher finished cases with better bracelets than the so called established watch makes. the issue is when you come to sell, if you are a serial buyer and seller like me ( it’s my hobby so I’ll do exactly what I like) very few microbrands hold value, some like Timefactors hold false value because to buy one you have to jump hoops. Others are very surprising such as Furlan Mari, an exceptionaly average watch which for some reason sells at twice its price.

Anyway…….. it’s your money….. listen to all us lot giving it large about our opinions…. But do what you want in the end.

I have the same strategy ☺

Welp, now you’ve encountered someone who uses the term in the non-pejorative sense! I’m understand your Joe and Ritchie examples. I’ve bought a watch from Joe, but never from Richie - he is, pardon the pun, to rich for my blood. So while Joe and Ritchie may have different motivations and be operating at different price points fundamentally they are doing the same thing: flipping (aka selling) a watch. No honor lost for either from my perspective - yay capitalism! Which is why if and when I sell a watch I’ll not be ashamed to say I flipped it.

Absolutely, at the end of the day you can use whatever term you like. All I'd advise is that the term 'flipper' is heavily associated with people buying watches with the intent of selling them quickly for profit. Again, in a similar vein you don't call someone who's lived in a house for 30 years a 'house flipper' when they sell that house, but you do call someone who buys a house, repaints it, lays new carpet and sells it a few months later - for profit - a house flipper. The Oxford dictionary even defines the word as, "a person who buys and sells something, especially shares or property, quickly in order to make a profit." If you walked into a Watchcrunch event and declared, "I'm a watch flipper!" I reckon the majority would take it as a negative, unless you specifically explained that you just mean selling a watch every now and then.

If I tried to buy a Monta Noble pre-owned right now, I could probably pick one up for about $1,100, which is about 45% off MSRP. But, if I wanted to get an Oris Big Crown Pointer Date pre-owned, that would run me about $1,200, which is about 33% off MSRP. At this price tier, its not like one brand is going to vastly outperform the other in the secondary market. So when it comes to selling and brand equity, none of these brands have that much cache. I don't think it should factor that much in the decision making process as to which one is the better buy when debating between an established brand versus a microbrand.

Please. Don't be naive. You know that most people, including yourself define a flipper as someone who purchases something with the intent of reselling.

Read your own quote. Own your own words.

"As for the resale value question, I’m a collector not a flipper. I buy watches to wear not to sell."

Okay okay okay okay, jeez. As you say.

There, erbody happy now 🙄