Old post on Fratello about Grand Seiko, circa 2004
I was going through old articles on Fratello tonight, and came across this gem. I'm not bashing Broer in any way here, you can see he says the watch is perfection, but the mindset back then, and even in many today, is" you are spending that kind of money on a Seiko?". Just found this amusing 20 years later.
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Chris
New watch enthusiast.
Pennsylvania, USA
Member since
Last active: 9 hrs ago
7.25” / 18.42 cm
Don't tell me that this kind of mindset is absent 20 years later.
Most watch press still has this pompous and snobbish tone 20 years later to be honest. 🤷
Both a 20 year old Grand Seiko and a 30 year old Honda NSX would make me a very happy man.
That is exactly why everybody should use their own brain to make a sensible buying decision, watches, cars or anything else. NSX? Just do your research about it, a legendary car. Grand Seiko: same.
Rofl. Cute
He could've at least said Acura.
It really is interesting that there are still people who have this same thought when it comes to Grand Seiko. Their loss!
Dont forget what the market was like in those days. I had bought my sub LV the flat four version from the authorised dealer in 2004 for 3.5k euro aka 4.4k usd at the time, and speedies where at 3k new if even that. 5k gave you a lot of options back in 2004 both new and used. I honestly dont think grand seiko was competitively priced back then.
People have surprisingly selective long-term memories on here...
It reeks of snobbery and, honestly, racism to suggest that a “European crafted” product is inherently superior to its Japanese equivalent. The car analogy has aged pretty badly as well—the resale value of a 2004 NSX is now 4-5 times that of a 2004 carrera 4s in similar condition. Same story with the Honda S2000 vs the Porsche Boxster and BMW Z3: at the time, the Honda was 10k cheaper, now used S2000s sell for about 10k more. People with the “you could get a Swiss watch for that money” attitude are buying logos and status symbols, not watches. They’re also buying a myth as we all know by now how much of a “Swiss” watch is actually made in Asia anyway.
and that's the year spring drive came out, right?
@FutUhr_Zwo I was also thinking of the Honda NSX when I read the clip. Or a Nissan GT-R.
It reeks of snobbery and, honestly, racism to suggest that a “European crafted” product is inherently superior to its Japanese equivalent. The car analogy has aged pretty badly as well—the resale value of a 2004 NSX is now 4-5 times that of a 2004 carrera 4s in similar condition. Same story with the Honda S2000 vs the Porsche Boxster and BMW Z3: at the time, the Honda was 10k cheaper, now used S2000s sell for about 10k more. People with the “you could get a Swiss watch for that money” attitude are buying logos and status symbols, not watches. They’re also buying a myth as we all know by now how much of a “Swiss” watch is actually made in Asia anyway.
I mean... If anything the last 40 years Japanese manufacturing (and Taiwan, S.Korea) have demonstratively proved that Asia makes better cars, electronics, and machines than most EU manufacturing could ever dream of. BMW, Mercedes, and VW are all famous for putting mechanics' kids through college. Meanwhile - Korea, Taiwan, Japan can all make I-phones with nanometer gaps between literally billions of transistors, MEPS, or otherwise perfectly over a full production run of 50m pieces... but they can't make a 4cm gear better than the swiss? come-on.
Haha, this sounds like Archie back in the day. To be fair, a lot of people are buying solely, or at least mainly, for the branding and associated implications with respect to perceived social standing.
I'm not a GS fanboy but this mindset is silly. The car comparison is also all but untrue; try buying a Maserati, Porsche 911, Citreon, or Lamborghini from this era without having to replace half the car
The thing is, even 20 years later GS still offers rubbish bracelets and clasps. There are watches in the 1-2K price segment with far superior bracelets. 😂
GS has to fix that before they can be mentioned in the same sentence as their Swiss or German rivals.
You wont bash him, but we can😀. Is he honestly bashing a fucking Honda?
I mean... If anything the last 40 years Japanese manufacturing (and Taiwan, S.Korea) have demonstratively proved that Asia makes better cars, electronics, and machines than most EU manufacturing could ever dream of. BMW, Mercedes, and VW are all famous for putting mechanics' kids through college. Meanwhile - Korea, Taiwan, Japan can all make I-phones with nanometer gaps between literally billions of transistors, MEPS, or otherwise perfectly over a full production run of 50m pieces... but they can't make a 4cm gear better than the swiss? come-on.
...and, let's be honest, that 4cm gear in a Swiss movement is now being sourced from Asia anyway given how little Swiss content and labor needs to go into a product with the "Swiss Made" label.
You wont bash him, but we can😀. Is he honestly bashing a fucking Honda?
I think we can bash him because he's basically bashing Asians and perpetuating the 1950s trope that Japanese/Asian products are low-priced, lower-quality knockoffs. It's a common theme in the watch community and an ironic one considering that the vast majority of Swiss watches are assembled almost entirely from Asian-made parts. Remarks like his are still ubiquitous in the comments below any review/announcement of a Seiko or Citizen that costs more than a thousand bucks. God forbid Seiko should feel entitled to charge as much for their products as Swatch does for a Hamilton or Longines-branded watch, let alone a Grand Seiko or Credor daring to demand Omega, IWC, or Rolex money.
My guess is that he’d probably be chagrined by that statement, judging by some of his more recent articles, such as his Seiko tour trip report, and the fact he owns a Grand Seiko (at least as of two years ago).
Always route for the underdog ♥️especially when there the best 👌
NSX is my dream car so works for me lol
...and, let's be honest, that 4cm gear in a Swiss movement is now being sourced from Asia anyway given how little Swiss content and labor needs to go into a product with the "Swiss Made" label.
The "Swiss Made" rules have so many gaping loopholes and built in end-arounds they could literally make every part but the clasp in Asia, assemble it in Switzerland, and charge 51% of the cost as the Swiss Made clasp- call the whole watch Swiss Made. Not knocking them- still great watches, but to think there's some guy on a bench in the Alps working a file on a watchmakers lathe is a fantasy. Now a Beetlejuice era Winona Ryder buffing case lugs wearing a fez and bikini is another fantasy...but I digress.
It wasn’t just them, it was the entire internet. Look at Reddit posts from back in the day.