Chronotriggered destroys watches... #10 - this time it’s personal
No intro - straight to business. #10. Let’s roll…
I’ve tried to keep a level-head throughout this series. Even when I absolutely detest a watch, I’ve tried to be fair. This time, off the bat, hand on heart, I HATE the single watch in this instalment. Sorry…
I wanted to try and make this a pair-off but I cannot think of any other watch out there (other than from the same brand) that does this. So, it’s a one-shot like the Titanic DNA (#6) or the Bulova Royal Oak (#3).
Convince me why this is a good watch.
Ressence Type 3
This watch is >£30k. It’s a technological tour de force. A watch that is built to withstand most that you can throw at it. Filled with oil to avoid light refraction. A bellow system to maintain pressure of the oil for temperature fluctuation (albeit because they decided to flood the f******g thing with oil in the first place - first world problems). Special cradle-system, magnetic connection, beautiful display. It’s gorgeous, but…
at the heart of this is a ETA 2824/2. A £350 off-the-shelf movement.
What is the f*****g point?
To me - this is the horological equivalent of putting a lawnmower engine in a Ferrari. This is a Lamborghini tractor, in a Lamborghini shell. This is pointless… pure indulgence. If this had a JLC ébauche at the start, I’d probably be on board. Or a Cartier movement, hell even a thermocompensated SuperQuartz a la Breitling I’d understand, you’d get the COSC + accuracy, but an ETA 2824/2? Noooo… even a COSC version would be up to £600, where’s the value here? Why? Even at concept, fine, but then scale it to production no? It’s like we’ve broken through to the other side.
This isn’t a dig at the 2824/2; I have a few watches with it in, I love the movement, but not running my £30k uber-watch. Fair play to Ressence for doing this, this is not a dig at the sheer bloody-mindedness for actually pulling this off, but you have to question why…
Am I wrong? Tell me why I’m wrong? Keep or destroy?
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Chris
You have woken me from a particularly good dream…
London
Member since
Last active: 23 secs ago
7.50” / 19.05 cm
Problem is, it does look really nice. And different. And isn’t one of us with a bottle of food grade mineral oil standing over the kitchen sink.
It is one of those Ian Malcolm moments though isn’t it.
Keep. I guess.
It is not a watch made by a watchmaker and that's what makes it kind of interesting and different I think. The founder of Ressence, Benoît Mintiens, is a product designer. Before creating the watch brand he worked for all sorts of companies and designed all sorts of things, including plane interiors, high speed trains and even a vacuum cleaner.
Now, you might think, what does a guy like that know about making watches. And that's the interesting part; he doesn't. Allowing him to approach a watch in a completely different way than what tradition dictates. Doing something completely different, from a product designer's point of view.
The ETA 2824 is more like putting a Rover engine in an Ariel Atom. Taking something reliable, robust and easy to repair from a manufacturer that knows what they're doing and turning it up to 11. It might not be for you and at the price point it isn't for me either, but I can definitely appreciate the innovation he brought and the different approach he took.
That's why I voted to keep (Plus Benoît Mintiens is a Belgian designer, one of the few in watches, so I have to root for that a little too)
It is not a watch made by a watchmaker and that's what makes it kind of interesting and different I think. The founder of Ressence, Benoît Mintiens, is a product designer. Before creating the watch brand he worked for all sorts of companies and designed all sorts of things, including plane interiors, high speed trains and even a vacuum cleaner.
Now, you might think, what does a guy like that know about making watches. And that's the interesting part; he doesn't. Allowing him to approach a watch in a completely different way than what tradition dictates. Doing something completely different, from a product designer's point of view.
The ETA 2824 is more like putting a Rover engine in an Ariel Atom. Taking something reliable, robust and easy to repair from a manufacturer that knows what they're doing and turning it up to 11. It might not be for you and at the price point it isn't for me either, but I can definitely appreciate the innovation he brought and the different approach he took.
That's why I voted to keep (Plus Benoît Mintiens is a Belgian designer, one of the few in watches, so I have to root for that a little too)
I do appreciate the innovation, but I still think this is not a good watch from a price point. I disagree with your analogy, they are not tuning the movement, they are working around it to develop a product with a different goal, which I get, but not at 100x a markup for the engine... look, I know it’s not as simple as that, a luxury car is not the cost of the engine, it is all the bells and whistles, but the engine of a sports car is not a ETA2824/2, that’s my point.
It‘s not a slight on the developer either, I have read around this watch and its back story, but it really doesn’t resonate with me on this fundamental level. If it had a better calibre, I’d probably be a lot more accepting of this watch.
Problem is, it does look really nice. And different. And isn’t one of us with a bottle of food grade mineral oil standing over the kitchen sink.
It is one of those Ian Malcolm moments though isn’t it.
Keep. I guess.
Don't worry, I'm not making the same mistakes again.
No, you're making all new ones.
It is a gorgeous watch, but so is a Lamborghini but I’m not taking that to it’s full potential driving it around the M25.
To be honest, everyone voted to save an Apple Watch over a Hublot Big Bang… I can see where this might go.
I personally don’t care either way. Sure, it looks nice, but I‘d be wary of something full of oil. Even an equally nice looking watch in a more “traditionally“ package though, at that price, I wouldn’t buy either one.
It is not a watch made by a watchmaker and that's what makes it kind of interesting and different I think. The founder of Ressence, Benoît Mintiens, is a product designer. Before creating the watch brand he worked for all sorts of companies and designed all sorts of things, including plane interiors, high speed trains and even a vacuum cleaner.
Now, you might think, what does a guy like that know about making watches. And that's the interesting part; he doesn't. Allowing him to approach a watch in a completely different way than what tradition dictates. Doing something completely different, from a product designer's point of view.
The ETA 2824 is more like putting a Rover engine in an Ariel Atom. Taking something reliable, robust and easy to repair from a manufacturer that knows what they're doing and turning it up to 11. It might not be for you and at the price point it isn't for me either, but I can definitely appreciate the innovation he brought and the different approach he took.
That's why I voted to keep (Plus Benoît Mintiens is a Belgian designer, one of the few in watches, so I have to root for that a little too)
I once hooked my Honda mower‘s 160cc OHV engine to my 2824-2 and was able to plow through a really stubborn patch of crab grass!
I like how it looks like a $300 smartwatch display, albeit trickier to decipher. Neat trick having subdials wander around so they're hard to find.
I know I knock what I consider to be large watches a lot, but this thing is laughably big.
Truly an example of the truism that just because something can be done does not mean that it should be done.
I understand the outrage associated with the pricing on this one. However I think you're focusing too much on the movement. You're not buying the movement, or even the watch in this case, you're buying a concept.
In the sports car analogy, the thing that makes the car "sporty" is it's engine, in part only. If it had only the looks, but not the performance, it would no longer be a sports car.
This watch is not marketed as a performance watch however, more so as a piece of art as @MegaBob says (although beauty in art is always subjective). If it had a better movement, it would be no more a piece of art than it already is. A better movement adds no further value to the concept, only makes it more practical.
The fact is you can find no other mechanical watch that looks like this one. Hence they feel they can charge the money, because you have something functional and unique. Even if it's not a top performer, it is a top concept.
I understand the outrage associated with the pricing on this one. However I think you're focusing too much on the movement. You're not buying the movement, or even the watch in this case, you're buying a concept.
In the sports car analogy, the thing that makes the car "sporty" is it's engine, in part only. If it had only the looks, but not the performance, it would no longer be a sports car.
This watch is not marketed as a performance watch however, more so as a piece of art as @MegaBob says (although beauty in art is always subjective). If it had a better movement, it would be no more a piece of art than it already is. A better movement adds no further value to the concept, only makes it more practical.
The fact is you can find no other mechanical watch that looks like this one. Hence they feel they can charge the money, because you have something functional and unique. Even if it's not a top performer, it is a top concept.
Well - I don’t think it looks particularly brilliant, as previously mentioned it just looks like a smartwatch.
I also don’t see the point, compounded by the choice of base movement. I appreciate the bells and whistles, the engine is just a part of it, but my analogy of the average engine sports car body is apt.
Like I say - I appreciate the watch, don’t like it, it’s just waay too expensive and one would just argue, why bother? The overall package, despite the price (which is probably justified), is nice but pointless.
Not content to be a gimmick watch, it also has a gimmick dial and comes in a gimmick size. I vote it off of the island.
Regardless of what movement is in the watch, I think the watch accomplishes the goal the designer had for it; to be completely different than any other watch & be a statement piece.
I think the price being what it is was intended to limit the production to just a few pieces. I could be wrong.
I really admire the thought, ingenuity, and craftsmanship that go into them, but wish we could get people to use that to solve some of society's problems instead.
With that, I bet you're thinking I'm gonna say 'destroy', but no. I want to keep it so when archaeology of our society occurs, it can be left as a clue to solve those societal ills before re-inventing devices already perfected enough to allow society to function.
I'm not a massive fan of the Type 3, but the Type 8 is a stunner.
I'm normally a form is determined by function kind of guy, but in this case I think the form is so novel that it's worth the price of admission.
Sure, you could buy a Daytona on the secondary market for the price of a Type 3, but then you're just another dude with a "fancy" Rolex on your wrist.
Imagining explaining this to my wife, getting a generic “looks cool”, then telling her the price and getting a real “you’re an idiot“ look.
Destroy!
Mechanical watches have been jewelry since 1969 and the introduction of electronic movements, as such the importance of the movement is pretty low and we should be applauding manufacturers using inexpensive, reliable, robust, and adaptable third-party movements at every turn - not criticizing them for it.
So, you are happy to pay £32k on some uneconomical over-engineering atop a £350 workhorse? That‘s fine, good for you, as per the majority. I think it’s grossly top-heavy, that’s why I don’t like it, and I’m happy to be the odd one out. I’m not even sure why I’m bothering to reply tbh, you’ve just glossed over the positives that I touched on but that’s ok, I’ll put you back on mute now.
Hello Porthole,
All that you say is relevant; having a Standard ETA is cheap for so much going on with this essence!
However, this watch needs a robust and reliable movement that ain't scared of working like a tractor; like it can be beaten and old, it will do the job that Lamborghini can't. Even the ETA 2892 isn't strong enough
Get yourself the Type 2 e-crown. At least it has a 'custom' quartz inside
https://ressencewatches.com/pages/type-2
Ok - so define strong enough? I’m pretty sure I know what you mean, I did consider actual “balance power“ and “power reserve” before I decided to place this instalment but for the group I think you might want to clarify…
Again, I like the ETA 2824 (why do I feel like I’m stuck on repeat), but having it run a £32k super watch is pretty top-heavy. When does something become uneconomical, apparently not this according to WC, so fine. I guess I want something different for my cash. Also, in terms of innovation, just because it’s cool doesn‘t mean it needs to be done. Again, I could design my car to counter the explosive acceleration of a missile attached to the roof, doesn’t mean it’s logical.
Also, if you don’t like this maybe consider the £45k version? Please… the issues that addresses could be resolved by (a) a Casio Waveceptor, (b) buying an Apple Watch, or (c) pulling out the crown of your quartz watch when not in use. All three are significantly cheaper and just as effective. Enhanced legibility is not worth £30-40k is it. I’m sure I’m going mad if people think this is good value for money.
Well - I don’t think it looks particularly brilliant, as previously mentioned it just looks like a smartwatch.
I also don’t see the point, compounded by the choice of base movement. I appreciate the bells and whistles, the engine is just a part of it, but my analogy of the average engine sports car body is apt.
Like I say - I appreciate the watch, don’t like it, it’s just waay too expensive and one would just argue, why bother? The overall package, despite the price (which is probably justified), is nice but pointless.
How much would u pay for it ? 12k-15k?
You could buy anything other than a Daytona - you can still be unique without buying a Ressence no?
I think anything more then 30 bucks Casio is a luxury . U buy it cuz u like it , u buy it cuz it speaks to u , u buy it cuz u wanna stand out and u buy it cuz u can . In the world of luxury if u talking price then u can’t really afford it , it’s not ur thing .
Plus unlike Rolex that costs 15 but u can’t buy it or have to pay more cuz of a fake bubble , here u can actually enjoy the piece .
Lastly 30k for smth that never existed before is too much but 10k for ladies quarts Cartier or 5 for Rolex quartz is ok?)
It’s £32k on a gimmick, overcoming problems that didn’t need to be overcome, if not introduced into the watch for innovations sake, run off a standard no frills movement. I appreciate that’s probably mean, but it doesn‘t scream unique or attractive, it screams money over sense.
Like Daytona that costs 15k selling at 60k or nautilus that cost 40 at 200)
How much would u pay for it ? 12k-15k?
I don’t know - how much was spent on R&D and then how much of that translates into real world cost per Ressence watch, and then factor in markup and profit… but then again, if I don’t like it I’m not in the queue to buy it.
Like Daytona that costs 15k selling at 60k or nautilus that cost 40 at 200)
Irrelevant - different issue completely if you want to rail against grey market markups. There are plenty of other threads for that.
I think anything more then 30 bucks Casio is a luxury . U buy it cuz u like it , u buy it cuz it speaks to u , u buy it cuz u wanna stand out and u buy it cuz u can . In the world of luxury if u talking price then u can’t really afford it , it’s not ur thing .
Plus unlike Rolex that costs 15 but u can’t buy it or have to pay more cuz of a fake bubble , here u can actually enjoy the piece .
Lastly 30k for smth that never existed before is too much but 10k for ladies quarts Cartier or 5 for Rolex quartz is ok?)
Sorry - if you talk about price you can’t afford it? Is price no longer something we can discuss?
Sorry - if you talk about price you can’t afford it? Is price no longer something we can discuss?
No no u misunderstood me . I mean in general in the world of luxury we all know that price and value doesn’t go hand to hand anymore like it used to . These things r all done for the rich that don’t care anymore . They buy one of these because they know they will earn money of 2 of those in a day . That’s why I am saying that what movement it has and the price isn’t really an argument anymore .
Look at vacheron 56, it has Cartier movement that’s made by richemont for all brands yet they charge u 14k for that watch ) but ppl who want vacheron name , buy it )
I don’t know - how much was spent on R&D and then how much of that translates into real world cost per Ressence watch, and then factor in markup and profit… but then again, if I don’t like it I’m not in the queue to buy it.
But u know very well that watch mark up ratio is 1 to 5 and it’s getting higher and higher now . Plus some brands do no rnd, they just slap a basic movement and charge u for a watch that looks like any other . I guess it comes down what u really looking for and what u willing to pay for it . Maybe we are all wrong haha
No no u misunderstood me . I mean in general in the world of luxury we all know that price and value doesn’t go hand to hand anymore like it used to . These things r all done for the rich that don’t care anymore . They buy one of these because they know they will earn money of 2 of those in a day . That’s why I am saying that what movement it has and the price isn’t really an argument anymore .
Look at vacheron 56, it has Cartier movement that’s made by richemont for all brands yet they charge u 14k for that watch ) but ppl who want vacheron name , buy it )
Nothing wrong with that Cartier calibre, it’s in a lot of watches like the Piaget Polo. £14k for Vacheron is the whole point they used it as the ébauche for that VC model. It filled a gap in the market for Vacheron - it did exactly what they set out to do. So… again, we can’t talk about price?
But u know very well that watch mark up ratio is 1 to 5 and it’s getting higher and higher now . Plus some brands do no rnd, they just slap a basic movement and charge u for a watch that looks like any other . I guess it comes down what u really looking for and what u willing to pay for it . Maybe we are all wrong haha
This brand slapped a basic movement in a watch and built a load of R&D around that to fix all sorts of problems that may never had needed an answer as they could have been resolved by buying a Casio WaveCeptor or an Apple Watch. I feel like I’m repeating myself… I’m definitely repeating myself.
Nothing wrong with that Cartier calibre, it’s in a lot of watches like the Piaget Polo. £14k for Vacheron is the whole point they used it as the ébauche for that VC model. It filled a gap in the market for Vacheron - it did exactly what they set out to do. So… again, we can’t talk about price?
Which gap for vc ? It’s a holy trinity not a mcds dollar menu …
U don’t seem to get my point so u can talk about anything u want ) all the best
This brand slapped a basic movement in a watch and built a load of R&D around that to fix all sorts of problems that may never had needed an answer as they could have been resolved by buying a Casio WaveCeptor or an Apple Watch. I feel like I’m repeating myself… I’m definitely repeating myself.
Oh really ? So a perpetual calendar solves a problem ? Or a Chronograph solves ? All of that can be done with a timex or an Apple Watch .
This is a piece of Jewellery , u buy it cuz u like the way it looks and what it does . Unless u wanna actually check the moon phase on ur watch)
Which gap for vc ? It’s a holy trinity not a mcds dollar menu …
U don’t seem to get my point so u can talk about anything u want ) all the best
Thank you for the enlightening debate, I’ll be sure never to talk about value again…