What is this World Coming To?
What if you could purchase a new Porsche 911 for $2900 and your mechanic couldn’t even tell your new Porsche was a fake or a replica? That’s what we’ve come to with the Chinese Super Clone watch market. As a horologist I’m asked to inspect watches in order to determine authenticity, that used to take less than a minute. Not any longer. Rolex is the most cloned brand for good reason, and a simple “tell” was the “Rolex” engraved around the inner dial ring, specifically the absence of that engraving. Then it started to show up but was always misaligned. Now it’s dead on. Other tells but I won’t bore you. Us older folks may remember when you could take a fake Rolex to your Rolex authorized dealer and he would smash it with a hammer AND pay you $500. Scary days these days, and the photo you see is an example and the client paid $165 for this Air King Replica. What is this watch World coming to?
Well, I remember how there were movement covers that gave the appearance of Rolex movements. Now copies of certain Rolex movements are sold online.
I would expect that most people couldn't tell super fakes apart without comparing it to a reference.
I hate fake watches for ma y reasons. Wondering how much of this Rolex is responsible for 🤔 ? There have always been fake Rolex. Now that there is a fake crisis the problem has scaled up. Oh well...
The fakes are getting so good it’s showing how overpriced the real thing is.
I wonder if the owner of the fake watch in the picture tried to purchase the real one from an AD but was given the Rolex treatment and gave up on the idea.
Good point, are Rolex, Omega et al overpriced? No. Skilled employees, marketing, advertising, etc. But wait? How can the Chinese sell a super clone watch for $750 that is an almost identical replica to the $15,000 genuine watch? Here’s how, those multi million dollar manufacturing and tooling machines Rolex uses? The Chinese have even cloned those too, a fake watch made with fake equipment. Lord what is this World coming to?
It may just be the angle of the photo, but the crown engraving looks misaligned
Good point, are Rolex, Omega et al overpriced? No. Skilled employees, marketing, advertising, etc. But wait? How can the Chinese sell a super clone watch for $750 that is an almost identical replica to the $15,000 genuine watch? Here’s how, those multi million dollar manufacturing and tooling machines Rolex uses? The Chinese have even cloned those too, a fake watch made with fake equipment. Lord what is this World coming to?
Obviously we need to ignore the intrinsic value of a Rolex as we know it's priced due to demand / hype / flex.
However, if we can't tell the difference in finish between the fake and the real, then the price to the consumer of the Rolex movement is $14k. 🤯
Honestly, THAT was one of the primary things that motivated me to stop buying / collecting Swiss watches and get into Grand Seiko.
Discovered the r/reptime community on Reddit, and went down the Chinese super rep rabbit hole
Bought a bunch of Rolex and Omega super reps, and couldn't for the life of me distinguish between them and my genuine Swiss articles
Finally went to a Grand Seiko boutique and was floored by the dials and finishing
Figured I could go online and find a bunch of super rep GS
They don't exist - any fakes that are out there are really, really terrible and can be spotted a mile away
Tried to find a super rep of a White Birch GS SBGH005... all the Shirakaba dials out there are nothing like the dial of the real deal
Somehow the fixed R&D cost associated with the materials science that goes into each GS dial is prohibitive for the Chinese super rep manufacturers to try to copy - GS simply don't sell enough units of each watch to enable the Chinese super rep guys to amortize the fixed costs
If I see a Swiss design that I like, I'll simply get my "hey, cool design" fix by buying Pagani Design off Amazon now!
The fakes are getting so good it’s showing how overpriced the real thing is.
True, Rolex might be over priced, but the fakers are doing no R&D, have no design teams, and most importantly, no marketing costs.
To me you’re paying for the history of the watch and the brand and the joy comes from True ownership. It’s like owning the Mona Lisa or a scanned copy of the painting. I’d get no joy from a fake. A car may be differnt as it’s about function
True, Rolex might be over priced, but the fakers are doing no R&D, have no design teams, and most importantly, no marketing costs.
Well, in a way they do, but they’re employed by Rolex not the homage brand. 😉
You can copy something 1 for 1 but that brand came up with the concepts, design, research and development, the watches showed up in movies and books, the historical achievements of the watch or people who had that watch on. A fake neglects own that. If you own a real thing you own a piece of all that a fake you own a piece of some Chinese child slaves suffering
Exactly. And that’s why they’re not the equal of the real thing. But I do think the existence of these high quality fakes shows that we’re paying a lot more for a name than we realize.
The fakes are getting so good it’s showing how overpriced the real thing is.
My thoughts Exactly
Honestly, THAT was one of the primary things that motivated me to stop buying / collecting Swiss watches and get into Grand Seiko.
Discovered the r/reptime community on Reddit, and went down the Chinese super rep rabbit hole
Bought a bunch of Rolex and Omega super reps, and couldn't for the life of me distinguish between them and my genuine Swiss articles
Finally went to a Grand Seiko boutique and was floored by the dials and finishing
Figured I could go online and find a bunch of super rep GS
They don't exist - any fakes that are out there are really, really terrible and can be spotted a mile away
Tried to find a super rep of a White Birch GS SBGH005... all the Shirakaba dials out there are nothing like the dial of the real deal
Somehow the fixed R&D cost associated with the materials science that goes into each GS dial is prohibitive for the Chinese super rep manufacturers to try to copy - GS simply don't sell enough units of each watch to enable the Chinese super rep guys to amortize the fixed costs
If I see a Swiss design that I like, I'll simply get my "hey, cool design" fix by buying Pagani Design off Amazon now!
Big Dee -- I would love to buy another GS -- a sports collection model under 10k. The problem for me is they tend to look the same across the different series, except for the fugly chronograph, unless I am looking close. What's your view?
Thanks for the PSA. You should do a weekly column for us!
That pic looks like a $165 watch. The 1k fakes I’ll bet are scary good.
I’ve seen pics of Rolex movements cloned to a level that I expect even makes expert identification difficult
Crazy what happens when a country nationally embraces and encourages stealing.
I’ve seen fakes for most watches, from Rolex to inexpensive Seikos.
But so far, seen no such thing as fake spring drive GS, is this correct?
Only seen these Ali express monstrosities:
What's scary, it's not just Rolex being ripped off. Casio f91w, the most basic watch. I've seen Tissot prx with the pm80 movement cloned. It makes me scared for the entire market. Someone mentioned GS, Chinese super clone factories can't touch the finish and movement of GS. Not yet at least.
There is cloned GSs on Ali right now, but yeah, I’m sure movement looks wrong, if it’s visible like the real one.
(Image from Ali express, maybe ripped off from GS site?)
Said it before and will say it a million more times - design is hard, selling is almost as hard and manufacture is easy. When you buy the original of anything you arent paying for manufacture, your paying for every single decision that lead to that thing being made and you wanting it.
Also, screw imitation - payment is the only real form of appreciation.
If you value design, pay for it. If you dont - buy a fake.
I think it’s fucking hilarious. They did this by driving the price of watches into the stratosphere, while promoting the idea that without their product you are just a failure and not even a real human being, then made it impossible for any normal people to buy a nice watch and now they wonder why this is happening? Well-deserved punishment for companies, choked in greed and hubris. Maybe if watches didn’t cost as much as a new car for no readily apparent reason this wouldn’t be an issue. Remember 40 years ago when with some effort a normal person could have a Rolex?
BINGO! I used to have three Rolex watches. A Subby, a Polar Explorer II, and an original Explorer II 1655. When prices got STUPID, I sold them. I've now got some Steinharts that I absolutely love - and have taken several vacations with the extra cash.
I'm on the fence about fakes, but the Steinhart homages are awesome watches.
There is cloned GSs on Ali right now, but yeah, I’m sure movement looks wrong, if it’s visible like the real one.
(Image from Ali express, maybe ripped off from GS site?)
For the time being, Chinese super rep factories can’t borrow technology from their sister semiconductor manufacturing companies to apply electroforming lithography to creating movement components with such tight tolerances that you can get 55 hours power reserve on 36,000 vph bog standard movements and 80 hours power reserve on your newer generation hi-beat movements.
Spring drive is a whole other ball game!
Philosophical question: suppose if one truly cannot distinguish between a real and a fake watch; then would it really matter to that person as to which one is which?
For the time being, Chinese super rep factories can’t borrow technology from their sister semiconductor manufacturing companies to apply electroforming lithography to creating movement components with such tight tolerances that you can get 55 hours power reserve on 36,000 vph bog standard movements and 80 hours power reserve on your newer generation hi-beat movements.
Spring drive is a whole other ball game!
Sweet! I’m sticking with SD 🤘 (..and would love to add an 80 hr mems model as well!)
Sweet, when I'm ready to buy a Rolex, that's where I'll go.
And to the hataz, if it looks like a Rolex, feels like a Rolex, and performs like a Rolex, suck it you hosers cuz that's a Rolex even if it was made in Asia. Maybe Swiss Rolex should've learned to make something better than Asian Rolex for a comparable price instead of playing games.
As a meritocrat, I applaud Asian Rolex for beating Swiss Rolex at their own game. Build a better Rolex and the world will beat a path to your door. Attention hataz: an indistinguishable products at many magnitudes less cost is indisputably a better product. I remain on Team Asian Rolex.
Evidently there are things called 'NWBIG'. Their meaning is funny! It stands for 'not worth buying in genuine'. Those are considered so very close to the original that there's no point in buying the original. You can't tell the difference lol.
I admit these super clones are quite tempting! The average enthusiast will not really notice the difference. However, I know I won't be fooling anyone but myself. Plus contributing to the underworld trade just feels so wrong!
This is why factory papers, service history, and other provenance are going to be key moving forward. It happens in every industry. There's counterfeit wine. There are more 1967 Corvettes with a 427 big block on the road than Chevrolet actually produced. And don't even get me started with trading cards.
I would never intentionally buy or wear a fake watch, but this says something about the high end items we are buying and their real worth; are you you buying precision, sophistication, quality, or simply flex?
Sure!
A lot of it is font related:
As mentioned, the crown etching is out of line, that was the first thing that caught my eye
Not sure if it is the just the pic, but the bezel looks too wide, and looks to be at the wrong angle
The difference between the font size of the 3,6,9 and the rest of the numbers on the dial is not right. I'm not sure if the 3,6,9 is too small, or the others are too big, but it's not right
The etching of the "ROLEX" is not the right font, it's too fat. It's very very close, but doesn't look right, and doesn't look like the real thing
The etching of the "ROLEX" looks sloppier than the real watch, their machine tools probably aren't up to Rolex specs, it's not terrible, but it's noticeable. I worked in metallurgy and the metal industry in the past, and whatever they used to etch is not as good as what they have in Geneve. It's honestly not very noticeable but I can see it.
All in all it is very very good, and probably would have fooled me if I didn't have one sitting on my wrist! Careful out there everyone!
Agreed. I am a Rolex fan as well. I own or have owned a number of Rolex over the years. It's sad that Rolex has come to this. My AD (approximately 20 Rolex in a 20 + year relationship) asked me to buy something in September during their diamond push to be considered for another Rolex. This "request" changed it for me. With fakes as great as they are I don't trust the gray market. I'm moving on to other brands with a little love lost. Great watches indeed. Even better marketing for decades! The business model & marketing is amazing. That said, the new game isn't for me.
That is the reason I do not own any Rolex. This game is ridiculous and there any many here in these forums that can afford Rolex but think the same as I do.
That is the reason I do not own any Rolex. This game is ridiculous and there any many here in these forums that can afford Rolex but think the same as I do.
It's been a blessing. Found lots of watches I would rather own. I won't be participating any more in that game
I rather wear a similar-style Pagani Design watch with a great Japanse or Swiss movement than a fake copy pretending to be the real thing.