Thoughts on Bell & Ross?

I think a lot of people consider them overpriced especially since they lack history and don’t make their own movements. I think the square case is kind of their trademark, but I don’t care for it. I think some of their vintage round case models look okay. They seem pricey to me too, but I’ve never seen one in person so can’t speak to the quality. I think most people consider them well made.

Get a good discount if you buy one.  

They are one of the larger watch brands out there, so while technically still private, they started as a watch provider to the French AF, so it would be hard to say they are either micro or independent. More like Oris in that regard.

Like Panerai, they make interesting watches, but you have to be a fan of the styling, have a big enough wrist to pull it off, and be okay over paying for what you get. In recent years, they seem to hop on trends, but to be fair most brands do. B&R are very popular with non-watch folks for their styling, but sadly for watch enthusiasts they take one look at the price, accompanying movement, and size then immediately pass. B&R tend to use movements found in much less expensive watches making them a tough value, especially given their reputation for steep depreciation. 

That said, if you like the styling and can get a great deal on a deeply discounted new or used model, go for it. The movements they use are solid, so it should be reliable. 

I can agree with your assessment of the brand, I also feel like rambling a bit:

It’s my personal opinion that people worry about case sizes too much—I think many people can pull off larger watches than they realize, but I will admit B&R watches can get pretty big, yet I digress.

As far as the movements, I never really cared for comparing prices of off the shelf movements, because even though I may be able to find a movement on its own for 1/10 the price of the watch, that doesn’t mean the watches should be priced in accordance with the movement— research, design, case materials, machining, employee salaries, advertising, and a lot more go into the overall cost of the watch, so up to a certain price point, I don’t consider the prices of the movements themselves. For example I’ve seen SW200-1 used in watches $300-$3000, even though the base movement itself is about $200, and these brands never seem to get much flak. It just gets complicated because there are different levels of performance and finishing for the off the shelf brands. 
 

It seems like us watch enthusiasts have very different ideas on what is a deal breaker or not.  In my view, I am paying for the designs and vision that go into the watch first, followed by the cold cost of the materials.  Others may view it the other way around, and that they are paying for what physically goes into the watch for performance and specs, rather than the design and artistry of the overall piece. 

Shoot, I don’t plan on getting one anytime soon, but I can agree with your thoughts.  A lot of people probably do see them as overpriced. Determining if a watch is overpriced is difficult for me, and it is different for everyone. I view watches as almost like a piece of art, where I am not necessarily paying for the cost of the art supplies (the movement, materials), but the finished piece itself. Maybe it’s a little too subjective of a way to think when concerning watches, but I can definitely give some brands some breathing room when it comes to their prices. It’s almost as if a good amount of people think watches should simply cost as much as the sum of their materials. 

I also didn’t know about their history with the AF, definitely makes sense given their designs! Very cool knowledge 👍🏻

I would posit, at least amongst enthusiasts, the brands charging a ton for basic movements get a ton of flak (Hublot, Tag, IWC, etc).

Yes, there is something to be said about design, materials, and what they do with the movement, but for many, they regulate, decorate, add a custom rotor and call it a day. I’m okay paying up to $2000 for a basic movement if the rest is well executed. For others, maybe that threshold is $1000. With so many micro brands offering more value for less, it is hard to justify the premium, unless you simply love the look. Which again, nothing wrong with that. Your money, your wrist.

Speaking of, because square shapes fit larger than round ones, on my 6.5” wrist, a 40mm square case fits like a WWE belt on me. I wish I could pull it off. Biggest I attempt is my Monaco, and honestly, that may be too big if I’m being honest with myself.

This is the only one I like (like, not love). And would buy it if it was around $1500 USD. I don't think their designs are too divisive, but the price bracket is, if they were around the $2000 mark they would be infinitely more popular, but for 8k you could get a nice omega or even into rolex territory.

That’s my weak spot—loving the look of a design. I don’t know why but once I see a certain design, I can’t be happy with an alternative 😂 so I just lie to myself and tell myself that’s why I’m buying the watch. It could have a load of dirt under the hood and I wouldn’t care 😂 to an extent of course. With my logic, just because I like the look of something, I would buy it regardless, but for many quartz watches this is not the case. I love the designs of some dials, cases, etc—and then I notice it’s a quartz movement and I instantly move on to something else. I’m a bit of a hypocrite I guess 😂🍻

That is a really sharp $2500 watch.  :-)

Also, have to tip my hat to them, unlike Hublot, their screws are symmetric.  

Agree 100%. It almost makes you wonder why they don’t consider a more attainable offering.  Or it would be easier to stomach the prices if there was some other sort of attribute going for the brand.  In this case, the design is not something I’m in love with, so the price isn’t right for me. Like I was saying in some other comments, I would gladly overpay for the models that I do like, because the design is worth that much to me.

Sadly, they also make crap like this..46MM square…

Okay that one got me 😂😂😂 that made my day😂

Me too...I think these models have a really good design and good value I think.

This is the best watch they make, and I don't care for any of the other models. 

They are very nice looking watches never own one and way out of my budget league.

If we’re going to criticize B&R for not being able to justify their prices, we really need to have a chat about AP. And several other brands as well. 

Yes - please do. I would love to hear what the community thinks about pricing by brand. I am always trying to figure this out myself.

Here is what I believe so far from my own observation:

Omega - pretty spot on in general, although too many "limited editions". If you knock the premium off the limited editions then list price is pretty solid - maybe a 10% discount if you can get it.

Panerai - 30-40% overpriced

JLC - priced right, but market for the brand is soft so you can get about 10% discount from an AD and probably 20-25% discount on secondary market

Rolex - list price is slightly high, but since you can't purchase at list there's probably no point to the discussion - clearly secondary market prices are vastly inflated

Doxa - premium priced for what they are - you are buying heritage - worth about 80% of the list price, but Doxa does not discount

Vacheron - generally priced right at list for the quality of workmanship - again, the hot references you can't buy at list and the dress watches are similarly soft like JLC. Probably 20-25% discount on secondary market for dress watches but massive premium for the hot watches like the overseas

AP - this will be the same comment as Rolex - I was in the local boutique to get my Code 11.59 chrono serviced last month and the manager there told me they had not one watch in stock. When I asked why there was nothing in the cases, he said AP was sold out across the US - nothing in the stores. Compare this to mid-2020 when I purchased my Code, there was still a fair amount of inventory on hand - not the super hot references, but you could actually purchase a Royal Oak or Royal Oak Offshore. Now - forget about it. The secondary market prices are clearly at helium levels of inflated pricing.

I could keep going, but interested to hear what others have to say.

N.B. I stayed away from Seiko/Grand Seiko because with the recent pricing changes, the incredible value that used to be there in the pricing has pretty much disappeared, and in some cases, references are now overpriced to value.

Nothing against B&R but in their price range, there is fierce competition.  When I look at what else I could buy for those prices, B&R always loses and probably always will.

I always liked the look of the square case design and like the simpler almost gauge like look of them but I feel they are a bit pricey in my opinion. 

Nailed it. AP does absolutely zero for me, but as long as people are willing to pay, they should keep asking their MSRP and if anything increase pricing so they keep the money vs. greys. The big difference is the popularity of hard to find pieces vs readily available mass produced watches with off the shelf movements. Two totally different audiences and hard to compare strategies.

Sadly, my inner cheese almost encouraged me to think about buying one of these. Then my better brain took over - I showed it to my wife and she said "there's no way you're buying that". Thank goodness for having access to a better brain. 😉

I dont think its a weakspot at all - personally Im really similar.  I think there are three broad areas of watch pricing: design/engineering/brand, there's no "right" set of priorities.  For me I go design the most important, after that the engineering and brand only have to be good enough - not great.

Bell and Ross arent enthusiast darlings because ultimately they value design over everything else whereas much of the vocal enthusiast community devalues design, hence you'll see original designs written off as poor value but homages praised for offering great specs for the money. 

Yes, you will pay more for a Bell and Ross than there more generic competition but you'll get something really special and finished to an exceptional standard.  If you like the look why compromise?  

 

I don't go for square watch's but love the Bell & Ross ones.

I like their iconic square watches less and less these days as my taste changes, although the BR05 integrated bracelet watch is quite the looker. I still feel they are overpriced by a long shot.

IMHO, I know that they're an aviation themed brand, but I feel like they'd be more successful if they would bring their prices back down to earth.

came through looking for B&R --- and this topic hit it on the head. not much chatter, and now i realised the responses on the thread are 2 months old!

for me personally, I love their designs. they have a unique utilitarian charm when done well. the too avant-garde fashion pieces are not my first choice (doubt it's a lot of people's!) but when done right they are above many in the aviation inspired watch arena.

at the same time, i agree --- prices could use a bit of a reduction!

From what I've, B&R is an independent brand. I enjoy some of the B&R designs, but others seem to lack creativity in my opinion. I actually like some square watches like the #tagheuermonaco , but I can get that watch for cheaper than many B&R watches!

I love the look of that BR-05 and i also find it very wearable at 40mm..... its a really good looking watch.... Even with my small wrists I could wear this one

I have always love the BR 05 Chrono, but just cant get over the off the shelve movement they use for the price they are asking. Lovely design that will definitely stand out among the rest. All the naysayers will say its an AP or PP copy, but is still unmistakably Bell & Ross DNA. If only they make their own movement.......