Sound the horn and convene the Crunch Council!
I come this Friday to make a proposal to all the fine, knowledgeable and honourable folk of The Crunch Council.
I wish to submit the following and have it thus written into Crunch Lore...
"The 'Fashion Watch' is a catagory of watches in it's own right, along with 'dive', 'fleiger' and 'dress'.
They shall no longer be seen as 'the devils watch choice' and shall be welcomed and celebrated in the temple of WRUW just as all other watches are"
My case, dear council members:
In the watch community 'fashion watches' make their home far down the bottom of the 'watch-acceptability' iceberg, below even the smart watch.
There are still posts that appear in the Crunchy Writings that are 'Posts' regarding their lamentable build quality, and should anyone admit to having one of said fashion watches in their collection, this admission will quickly be followed by comments of "I bought it before I knew any better", "It was a gift" or "It was just for fun."
Recently, we have seen articles appear regarding the watches produced by the famous fashion houses Louis Vuitton and Hermes, and how these are 'good enough' to be welcomed into the watch community fold.
But these are just a fraction of the fashion watch offering dear council.
I wish us to talk also about the Radley watches, the Gucci's, the Vivienne Westwoods.
These watches get tarred with the brush of being low build quality, sub-par movements and receive comments of "You are only paying for the label!".
Please, colleagues, let us put the argument of only paying for the label on the dial to rest, as this comment is true for many such watches we choose to add to our collections.
You may say "Yes! But the luxury watch labels are at least associated with excellent watch making, not handbags dear madam!"
... But you would be missing the point my friends...Just as people who will complain about the build quality and quartz movements in fashion watches miss it also.
It is fashion.
The parameters of judgement are different.
You would not complain that your dress watch does not have 200 meters of water resistance.
You would not whine that your fleiger does not have a diving bezel.
With fashion watches you are buying design and heritage.
"Pish posh to paying a premium for a designer label!" you may say...
...but we watch enthusiasts do this regularly, and with wreckless abandon!
We buy watches worn by celebrities or in films.
We pay a premium for collaboration watches or those linked with our favourite sports teams.
So why not with fashion watches?
"But these watches will just fall apart within the month!"
Granted, my friends, just like with all other watch categories, there are differing levels of quality.
Yes, you will find terrible quality fashion watches, just as you find terrible quality diver watches, but I ask that we no longer inflict this fallacy of universal poor quality across the entire fashion watch world.
Ladies, gentlemen and gentlepersons, let us no longer practice throwing of the shade on fashion watches, but instead judge each on it's own merits as we would any other watch, and indeed, each other.
I await the council's judgement.
Your friend and colleague,
Kaysia of the Deepblue
(P.S. This may or may not have been written because I have just bought a fashion watch)
Part-time 'writter' @ The Escapement Room, the NSFW watch enthusiasts blog. www.theescapementroom.com/
More from DeeperBlue
I think there’s a point to be made that if you are in the Watch community and have a collection that you wear all the time that regardless of other practical uses, every watch you own is fashion watch to an extent. Just because it wasn’t made by a fashion house doesn’t mean you aren’t taking the time to pair your watch with your outfit.
This is serious and therefore I went to seek the counsel of my cat who is very wise in these matters.
Wear what you want to wear, pay for it what you are willing to pay.
Whether that is for function, heritage, build quality, design, or yes even fashion.
Don’t let the opinion of people (especially on the internet) way heavy on your mind. And remember: be good to yourself!
I'm with you on this. I mean, how are flieger and field even categories when they have so little to say design-wise?
Though we might need a two-tiered approach, I can't really drop that Ben Sherman of mine in the same category as a Hermes...
Maybe 1) Fashion and 2) Couture?
"No true watch collector or enthusiast would buy or wear a fashion watch."
This has always bothered me. I have heard it for years. I think that I have come to the realization why this rankles me, it is the very definition of the No True Scotsman Fallacy. It is an appeal to purity.
There are idiosyncratic definitions of "fashion" watch. Cartier is not, but Louis Vuitton is (they are both best known other products). Or even better, Louis Vuitton is a fashion watch, but Montblanc isn't. (They are owned by the same company and still, best known for other products). The definition will exclude what the one who comes up with its parameters wants to exclude. You can never get your hands on the true definition. For example: a fashion watch is just a label on a watch that is manufactured by someone else. Ignore the fact that this definition applies to Farer and practically every microbrand.
It is a fallacy.
As if a Rolex isn’t a fashion watch…imho, ALL watches are fashion watches, because there is no real practical use for them anymore. It’s an accessory just like a bracelet or a broche, with some added functionality. So whether A Lange makes it or L Vuitton - it’s a nice adornment of your wrist. Up to you what you are paying for: name, heritage, beauty, craftsmanship, marketing, investor yield, quality, resale value…so yeah, enter Fashion Watches into Crunch lore as you so nicely put it, alongside Dress, Diver, Flieger (why d’ya call them Fleiger?), Field and the rest of ‘m!
I agree with you and fashion watches are very often the gateway that introduces people to collecting.
Thank you! It's a relief. Finally!
I love fashion watches. I've mentioned this story before, but...
Used to walk into Costco and see these in the watch section
I was finally making money in my early 30's, so decided to splurge and went wild buying one for $69.99!
Because I used to do lots of rock climbing and cycling, I'd end up smashing 'em into 1,000 bits on a rock face or scrap them to nothing when I'm crash on the asphalt
Probably went through 1 every 6 months
Met up with a gal I went to college with, and she would always comment on how cool my watches were - I guess she thought I was doing well, because I could afford to buy a new watch every few months?
One night, we got drunk, and it was like a scene out of National Geographic...
Kenneth Cole Reaction, my friends, is where it's at!!! No Omega, no Rolex, no GS has ever achieved for me what a Kenneth Cole Reaction watch achieved!
I think there’s a point to be made that if you are in the Watch community and have a collection that you wear all the time that regardless of other practical uses, every watch you own is fashion watch to an extent. Just because it wasn’t made by a fashion house doesn’t mean you aren’t taking the time to pair your watch with your outfit.
Thank sir! A fine point to add to the argument 🍻
Hey, if you love fashion watches, power to you. I will continue to ignore fashion watch posts regardless.
This is serious and therefore I went to seek the counsel of my cat who is very wise in these matters.
This house recognises and respects the wisdom of the cat. 🙌
Wear what you want to wear, pay for it what you are willing to pay.
Whether that is for function, heritage, build quality, design, or yes even fashion.
Don’t let the opinion of people (especially on the internet) way heavy on your mind. And remember: be good to yourself!
Fine words Sir Watchie Dutchie 🍻
I'm with you on this. I mean, how are flieger and field even categories when they have so little to say design-wise?
Though we might need a two-tiered approach, I can't really drop that Ben Sherman of mine in the same category as a Hermes...
Maybe 1) Fashion and 2) Couture?
Perhaps that is a way.
Fashion and high fashion 👍
Frankly, I see no difference between a Rolex, LV, Hermès or Gucci watch. They're all luxury items with some of the worst value because 75% of the bill is the brand instead of the materials or the craftsmanship. In fact, I see no difference between a Rolex and a Gucci bag either. 😂
Luxury is luxury. You pay for the name out of vanity, fully knowing you can find similar if not higher quality products at a more affordable price. But for some people, the name is that important and directly connected to enjoyment. Each individual has different priorities, all that matters in the end is that however you decide to use your money brings you joy and fulfillment. We work our asses off so we deserve to like whatever we like, even if it doesn't make sense for others. 👍
"No true watch collector or enthusiast would buy or wear a fashion watch."
This has always bothered me. I have heard it for years. I think that I have come to the realization why this rankles me, it is the very definition of the No True Scotsman Fallacy. It is an appeal to purity.
There are idiosyncratic definitions of "fashion" watch. Cartier is not, but Louis Vuitton is (they are both best known other products). Or even better, Louis Vuitton is a fashion watch, but Montblanc isn't. (They are owned by the same company and still, best known for other products). The definition will exclude what the one who comes up with its parameters wants to exclude. You can never get your hands on the true definition. For example: a fashion watch is just a label on a watch that is manufactured by someone else. Ignore the fact that this definition applies to Farer and practically every microbrand.
It is a fallacy.
It's interesting, because I purposely didn't include Cartier or Bulgari in this, as I presume people would count them as fashion watches.
They are jewellers and so somehow get a pass?
You're right though.
It's all just different ways to adorn ourselves..
Funny how tastes change. I never liked Tag. Now I have decided I want a silver dialled link diver chrono. Or a black dial. Or, given my spending habits/power, something that looks like one. Failing that a 20mm link style bracelet I can stick on my Citizen ecodrive.
All of which are objectively silly choices, that make no sense, but Jason Bourne’s watch caught my eye last time I watched it.
Silly? There’s nothing silly about me having bought a Tag for the sole reason that I loved it in college when I was nowhere close to being able to afford it. Nothing at all silly about spending to appease your former self.
Nothing at all.
Apparently the concensus is that I have no need of embarrassment 🥳
Vintage '90's Gucci 3000.2.L.
(Picture isn't actually my watch, as it's still awaited).
Dammit, this is getting confusing, I actually like that watch.
Silly? There’s nothing silly about me having bought a Tag for the sole reason that I loved it in college when I was nowhere close to being able to afford it. Nothing at all silly about spending to appease your former self.
Nothing at all.
My reasons would be silly, yours would not 😆
Dammit, this is getting confusing, I actually like that watch.
Congratulations!
You have unlocked the 'Fashion Curious' badge!
(It has a nice jewelled ETA 980.153 swiss quartz movement too 👌)
I'm with you on this. I mean, how are flieger and field even categories when they have so little to say design-wise?
Though we might need a two-tiered approach, I can't really drop that Ben Sherman of mine in the same category as a Hermes...
Maybe 1) Fashion and 2) Couture?
I would argue that flieger and field are categories because they are both iconic and recognisable in their own right.
One does not simply wear a fashion watch…
Congratulations!
You have unlocked the 'Fashion Curious' badge!
(It has a nice jewelled ETA 980.153 swiss quartz movement too 👌)
I feel like the badge is going to have a drag queen on it, and I’m super excited for it.
There’s definitely a point to be made about fashion watches. I personally don’t mind them as long as we aren’t trying to compare them to better options in their price range. Personally I think if you have a fashion watch or want one go for it! For the list part they’re cheap and you probably wouldn’t care about bashing it around or losing it. 🤷🏾♂️
I think your wife is just not a watch enthusiast. I think male non-enthusiasts would be the same.
But do you see many on here? In the WRUW? Considering fashion watches make up the vast majority of watch sales, they are still rarely seen in a positive light in the watch community.
Thanks for bringing this topic up. I've posted several fashion watch wristshots in threads and even in WRUW - Versace, Armani, Zinvo and Movado.
I love them as much as my Seiko's, Casio and Bulova's. I have often considered writing a post in defense of fashion watches, but never have because... why bother. I'm not here to try and convert people, nor do I need anyone else's approval for these watches which I enjoy. I dont understand people who feel the need to put other people's preferences down when opinions or recommendations weren't solicited. But this site overall, has been a great community. One of the best forums I've ever been a part of.
My favourite watches from fashion companies not known for their watches:
Gucci 25H Tourbillon
Hermès H08
Ralph Lauren American Western
Ferragamo F-80 Skeleton
My main issue is that it’s the association of the more famous fashion brand that sells the watch and nothing else. “Gucci makes good clothing at a great quality therefore they should make a good watch and therefore this watch IS worth $1000.” Often times these fashion watches are basically the same as a cheap drop ship watch in terms of quality and the quartz movement so I don’t really like em or see a point to em for watch people. The new LV and Hermes watches are incredible but crazy expensive and rare.
Never worry about being rude! I enjoy the debate and conversation!
So you wouldn't call Cartier a fashion watch?
Is that because you see jewelry as different to fashion? It's own separate catagory?
Or is it due to Cartier's watch making heritage?
Is Bulgari in the fashion catagory in your eyes?
🍻
It's Cartier's watchmaking heritage that, speaking only myself, elevates it above other brands. I'll be called nuts for saying it, but I'll take a Cartier Santos over a Rolex any day of the week. I'll flip over a table full of Rolexes to get at it.
Bulgari is an odd one. Their new piece is a technological marvel. How did they make it that thin??? A few years back, they also made a gorgeous watch, a Daniel Roth collaboration, the Papillon Voyageur, that I thought was the most beautiful watch I had ever seen. When I first saw it, I didn't even know how to tell the time with it. I think they transcend fashion watches. Cartier, for me, for sure.
Heretic! Get the fires hot, it's time to handle this before it spreads.
Thought I'd leave this decision to my fashion guru Mr P
And he says "go for it, strap on the Viv, flex the Armani and do the DNKY" so that's our vote (and it will annoy the hell out of some people)
Pardon the analogy, but trying to define "fashion watch" is akin to defining pornography. As for me, I know it when I see it
I agree with others that there are many brands that are not typically seen as fashion watches but would fit most definitions. My father has a gucci watch that he adores. Further, he has a host of precious memories associated with it. Who has the nerve to try to invalidate that?
In my opinion, the value of a watch is entirely subjective. It's true that watches have a useful roll. But I think most people, and nearly everyone here see their watch as something more than a tool. Is it jewelry, symbol of love, object that moors memories, or just a fanciful lark to catch the eye?
I get that some people have issues with fashion watches, but to me those issues seem rooted I. Elitism and snobbery.