Zombie Brands: Who should go gentle into that good night?
The last few decades have brought a lot of change, consolidation, and bankruptcy to the watch industry. High flying brands have been brought low. Big and little names have been bought and sold. Some brands have risen from the ashes with success (Zenith) or with some success (Zodiac). Some have been brought back only to flame out again (Welsbro).
What historical brand that still survives in some form should be let go? They made great watches. They were important in their day. But, there no longer is any room on the stage for them. Their owner will not invest enough to put them in a position to make a difference in the industry. It is like seeing an old rock band at an amusement park: please let us have our memories.
My vote is for Wittnauer. It has been more than 20 years since they were bought by Bulova, so they have been a Citizen property for a long time. They have not been associated with Longines for longer than that. Look at their current offerings:
What is that exactly? We can get a watch with more originality at a tenth of the cost on AliExpress. I have my criticisms of the current Bulova models, but Bulova doesn't mail it in like Wittnauer. The average age of a watch buyer for whom Wittnauer was their favorite brand must be in the upper 70's. Wittnauer was an important brand that made and imported fine watches. What is it today?
“No one is finally dead until the ripples they cause in the world die away, until the clock wound up winds down..."
-Terry Pratchett
Wittnauer's clock has wound down.
(Edit: It had been a while since I looked, but Welsbro may be dropping new watches soon. If you like color...)
Restitutor Orbis. Aristocrat of beauty. Autocrat of time. (Trying to perfect trolling over at theescapementroom.com)
Movado
I must reluctantly say Universal Geneve. I truly can't comment much on their current offerings because who even knows? Their publicity is nil. I looked them up a few months back and let's just say I saw noting evocative or particularly noteworthy at all.
Also it looks like they've all adopted this weird protuberance around the logo at 12 o'clock. It's not flattering and is about the sole distinguishing design cue.
I can't say they are bad or anything, just that nobody cares. I want to care. I don't.
I just scrolled through a bunch of Bulovas, hoping to be proved wrong, but while there are a couple of lines that I didn't hate (namely the Computron and Breton), I don't think the brand is bringing much to the conversation, anymore.
I just scrolled through a bunch of Bulovas, hoping to be proved wrong, but while there are a couple of lines that I didn't hate (namely the Computron and Breton), I don't think the brand is bringing much to the conversation, anymore.
I can name several things they are doing off the top of my head, and that's ignoring Accutron. They have the Precisionist stuff, that silly Sinatra line, the Lunar Pilot or whatever that's called. And some other funky stuff that I can't recall the name of.
They're far from on point with the bulk of their products, but they have a pulse, signs of life are there. Movado is an even better example than mine of "who knows, who cares?" The museum watch is a default choice for a microsegment of uninspired buyers and... and... I got nothing. What else do they still do?
Rolex. 😁 Sorry, couldn't resist.
I can name several things they are doing off the top of my head, and that's ignoring Accutron. They have the Precisionist stuff, that silly Sinatra line, the Lunar Pilot or whatever that's called. And some other funky stuff that I can't recall the name of.
They're far from on point with the bulk of their products, but they have a pulse, signs of life are there. Movado is an even better example than mine of "who knows, who cares?" The museum watch is a default choice for a microsegment of uninspired buyers and... and... I got nothing. What else do they still do?
Definitely agree about Movado. I guess my position on Bulova isn't that they're not making watches (and probably some that are fine), but that none that I saw said "ooh, you should buy that instead of a very similar watch from ____."
In the interest of full disclosure, I have no interest in quartz chronographs, so I just skipped over those, which may be their forte. :-)
Rotary. I can’t even think who owns them now, but a Rotary used to be a very good shout, especially 50-60s. It’s a sad brand now.
Roamer. Same. The relaunch is just very bland watches that share names with older models that had some character.
I must reluctantly say Universal Geneve. I truly can't comment much on their current offerings because who even knows? Their publicity is nil. I looked them up a few months back and let's just say I saw noting evocative or particularly noteworthy at all.
Also it looks like they've all adopted this weird protuberance around the logo at 12 o'clock. It's not flattering and is about the sole distinguishing design cue.
I can't say they are bad or anything, just that nobody cares. I want to care. I don't.
Haha I didn’t even know they were still out there!
-Invicta. The original company had some impressive watches in their history, both under the names Les Fils de R. Picard and Invicta. That includes grand complications pocket watches with ebauches by LeCoultre, which featured a complete calendar, moonphase, chronograph and minute repeater. Even the ones made in the 1960s were decent. The Lalo clan bought the brand name and turned it into an abomination, continuously referring to a past that isn't theirs in order to market the new Invicta's monstrosities.
-Movado. There is just about nothing Movado left in Movado. Their design is completely stuck on the Museum dial, only now it's all made in China, except the occasional Swiss movements.
-Croton. Another abomination, like Invicta. The original Croton was at some point one company with Nivada. Now it's a necromanced brand producing absolutely hideous watches. Wipe the name, wipe the shame.
-Doxa. I don't mind the SUB, but still wouldn't buy one, as the company's horrendous conduct has created a lot of bad blood. Let's just say I don't want to add a single penny to the pocket of Rick Marei, who especially at WUS hounded and bullied everyone who dared question Doxa's marketing claims. The non-SUB Doxas are, well...maybe not trash, they're just predominantly mediocre and boring.
-Bulova and Caravelle. Sometimes Bulova gets a reissue close to right, but then they throw in the Miyota 8-series and overprice the end result viciously. Their modern designs... Sorry, but they look like Jaragar or other AliExpress wonders. Caravelle is downright horrible.
-Claude Meylan. In the watch industry, most enterprises of the Meylan family were successes. Not this one. These skeleton watches might not be horribly made, but they definitely look horrible. AliExpress design meets Swiss Made prices.
-Enicar. The original brand has made some damn sturdy tool watches. Now...just go to their website and tell me it's not absolutely dull and insipid.
-Buren. They had some great contributions to watchmaking, like their micro-rotor later licensed to Universal Geneve. Then, as part of Hamilton-Buren, they co-designed the micro-rotor base calibre for the Calibre 11 automatic chronograph joint venture. Now... Someone bought the brand name and puts it on properly hideous watches. The Buren name should have remained dead.
-Invicta. The original company had some impressive watches in their history, both under the names Les Fils de R. Picard and Invicta. That includes grand complications pocket watches with ebauches by LeCoultre, which featured a complete calendar, moonphase, chronograph and minute repeater. Even the ones made in the 1960s were decent. The Lalo clan bought the brand name and turned it into an abomination, continuously referring to a past that isn't theirs in order to market the new Invicta's monstrosities.
-Movado. There is just about nothing Movado left in Movado. Their design is completely stuck on the Museum dial, only now it's all made in China, except the occasional Swiss movements.
-Croton. Another abomination, like Invicta. The original Croton was at some point one company with Nivada. Now it's a necromanced brand producing absolutely hideous watches. Wipe the name, wipe the shame.
-Doxa. I don't mind the SUB, but still wouldn't buy one, as the company's horrendous conduct has created a lot of bad blood. Let's just say I don't want to add a single penny to the pocket of Rick Marei, who especially at WUS hounded and bullied everyone who dared question Doxa's marketing claims. The non-SUB Doxas are, well...maybe not trash, they're just predominantly mediocre and boring.
-Bulova and Caravelle. Sometimes Bulova gets a reissue close to right, but then they throw in the Miyota 8-series and overprice the end result viciously. Their modern designs... Sorry, but they look like Jaragar or other AliExpress wonders. Caravelle is downright horrible.
-Claude Meylan. In the watch industry, most enterprises of the Meylan family were successes. Not this one. These skeleton watches might not be horribly made, but they definitely look horrible. AliExpress design meets Swiss Made prices.
-Enicar. The original brand has made some damn sturdy tool watches. Now...just go to their website and tell me it's not absolutely dull and insipid.
-Buren. They had some great contributions to watchmaking, like their micro-rotor later licensed to Universal Geneve. Then, as part of Hamilton-Buren, they co-designed the micro-rotor base calibre for the Calibre 11 automatic chronograph joint venture. Now... Someone bought the brand name and puts it on properly hideous watches. The Buren name should have remained dead.
Wait - Enicar and Buren are still around?
(googles it) - noooo, my eyes.
Bulova upset me, and they have jumped on the NFT train, so now they can truly do one.
Wait - Enicar and Buren are still around?
(googles it) - noooo, my eyes.
Bulova upset me, and they have jumped on the NFT train, so now they can truly do one.
On the Walmart website.
What's in a name?
At least Gruen's name isn't being desecrated, right?
Yeap, Enicar is still around.
From this 🤩
... To this 🙂🔫
On the Walmart website.
What's in a name?
At least Gruen's name isn't being desecrated, right?
Depends - my cal.512 is really playing up so I’ve called it some colourful names over the last few days.
Oh Elgin - what have they done to you?
What blissful state of ignorance have I been living in, I’ve never seen a ”new” Enicar, and now I wish I could unsee it.
This thread has upset me a lot, thanks everyone 😂
I can name several things they are doing off the top of my head, and that's ignoring Accutron. They have the Precisionist stuff, that silly Sinatra line, the Lunar Pilot or whatever that's called. And some other funky stuff that I can't recall the name of.
They're far from on point with the bulk of their products, but they have a pulse, signs of life are there. Movado is an even better example than mine of "who knows, who cares?" The museum watch is a default choice for a microsegment of uninspired buyers and... and... I got nothing. What else do they still do?
I did buy an Accutron II out of nostalgia, as I had an original many years ago. It’s a well made watch overall, but gets little wrist time. Smooth second hand sweep is cool, but something just doesn’t cry out ‘wear me’. So I guess some life there but compelling design is lacking for me.
Skagen, once at least an interesting fashion brand with very thin watches and well made dials. Ruined IMHO by the Fossil acquisition. It hurts my eyes 😵💫 to look at their catalogue, but I guess they are not dead. Maybe a zombie? 🧟♂️
Bulova is doing some interesting things and their retro reissues are nice, I just wish they'd put a stronger movement into their mechanicals instead of the Miyota 8 series. They're owned by Citizen, is it really too much to ask for a 9 series? No group discount?
Bulova
Rolex. 😁 Sorry, couldn't resist.
Going out while you are at the top, like Hendrix
The big guys are just investment commodity dealers now and the market will decide the survivors. They are scrounging through their back catalogues for the next big trend and a lot are stuck in the last century. Plastic is trending now for the ones without their cell phones attached. Most here like old school and lean towards traditional while the young are plugged in and tuned out.
Not that they don’t invest, and maybe they have a following I don’t know about, but Chopard
@MrBloke nailed it
i will go with raymond weill, its just there but nothing interesting
Rotary. I can’t even think who owns them now, but a Rotary used to be a very good shout, especially 50-60s. It’s a sad brand now.
Roamer. Same. The relaunch is just very bland watches that share names with older models that had some character.
I have some sentiment for Roamer. My dad's early 2000s SuperSlender quartz was a little bit a part of me getting into watches in the first place.
However, in recent years they had a bit too many homages, and the original designs were slightly wanting. Some of them more than just slightly.
Can't say one ill word of how their auto movements are finished, but I had a bad experience with my Mechaline Pro, which was dead on arrival and it went straight to the service centre. And the bracelet was absolutely bloody tragic.
I think Roamer can still improve, and I hope they will.
But I fully agree about Rotary. Insipid and flimsy.
Movado
They actually used to be a nice brand.
Bulova is doing some interesting things and their retro reissues are nice, I just wish they'd put a stronger movement into their mechanicals instead of the Miyota 8 series. They're owned by Citizen, is it really too much to ask for a 9 series? No group discount?
IKR!
Rotary. I can’t even think who owns them now, but a Rotary used to be a very good shout, especially 50-60s. It’s a sad brand now.
Roamer. Same. The relaunch is just very bland watches that share names with older models that had some character.
Must admit I am incredibly tempted by the Canterbury, but that's only because I wanna look a bit like Sherlock Holmes. I have the coat and I'm not stupid enough to wear a deerstalker so the watch is all that's left
I dont think it's fully there yet but Timex are on their way. I can't think of a single watch Timex produces apart from the Iron-man that's both fairly priced at retail and original looking. Theres still time, but not a lot.
I dont think it's fully there yet but Timex are on their way. I can't think of a single watch Timex produces apart from the Iron-man that's both fairly priced at retail and original looking. Theres still time, but not a lot.
That‘s going to be an unpopular take… I‘m guessing you have considered the Q and Marlin reissues? The collaborations? The S1?
EDIT - you just bought a Marlin Reissue from @Omeganut, what are you saying?
That‘s going to be an unpopular take… I‘m guessing you have considered the Q and Marlin reissues? The collaborations? The S1?
EDIT - you just bought a Marlin Reissue from @Omeganut, what are you saying?
I said thats both fairly priced at retail and original. I love all of timex's releases, but (and I admit I probably was thinking of the q line here) a lot of their releases suffer from corners cut for the money. Do I want an M79? Yes. Am I prepared to pay £179 for òne, especially with the rolled links, no. I probably commented this on the wrong thread. Timex are good, just overpriced at retail currently
Edit: I've thought about it and I throw my hands up. I admit I was wrong. I was thinking about purely the specs and didn't take into consideration that they're all reissues. The specs aren't the best because they're indicative of the original time. My bad
I said thats both fairly priced at retail and original. I love all of timex's releases, but (and I admit I probably was thinking of the q line here) a lot of their releases suffer from corners cut for the money. Do I want an M79? Yes. Am I prepared to pay £179 for òne, especially with the rolled links, no. I probably commented this on the wrong thread. Timex are good, just overpriced at retail currently
Edit: I've thought about it and I throw my hands up. I admit I was wrong. I was thinking about purely the specs and didn't take into consideration that they're all reissues. The specs aren't the best because they're indicative of the original time. My bad
Not calling you out, never my intention - I just wanted to see if you had considered a lot of the reissues because Timex are quite hot right now.
You are absolutely, 100% bang-on regarding RRP and pricing. It is the very thing that I will criticise Timex for - price entry point is important to experience and when a watch is often on sale anywhere between 15-50% RRP what is it really worth? Going forward, this could be an issue whereby they lose a lot of momentum they’ve gained, but they are pretty much revelling in it right now.