A Hypothetical Time Travel Experiment And A Question Of Mythology Over Quality

Props to @Orontius_Fineus whose recent posts about scaling down his collection have further inspired me to at least perhaps be happy with what I'm already lucky to have.

Vintage Rolex aren't even as good as a modern Invicta. At the end of the day, all anyone pays over the odds for is a certain brand name on a dial.

If there's something I'm missing, I really am open to it! I am by no means an expert in watchmaking but I thought if I researched I would find out more about why even a 50 year old Sub is obviously better. So far I haven't.

It's all marketing and nostalgia working in tandem. The whole industry was designed to make people want to role play being what they thought the rich were like, to create an illusion of doing better than they were in relation to their peers. Rolex in particular was designed from the very beginning to make the poor aspire to spend money they couldn't really afford to on an object which was never worth what the sellers wanted for it. It's all to fill a void, the "God hole" as it were, which gives very temporary happiness through manipulated consumerism.

Okay - I think that cuts both ways as a vintage Rolex in 2023 would be expensive and time consuming to service, so let's call that point a wash.

I think the Rolex looks better in all respects. Case shape, lugs, bracelet, legible bezel, knurled bezel. Not sure that makes it "better" but aesthetics is certainly a factor. I prefer the shiny, boxy ones btw lol

haha

Interesting. I don't know enough about the perception of that brand at the time, I'm just working from what it is today. That's worth learning more about.

I just posted a video about all this stuff which I found on YouTube, which the creator based on a book he found. It's a very long one. There are dozens of YouTube videos along the same lines, but this one was the most informative. Once you have the general picture, you can get specific on what Hans Wildorf set up, and the rest of the smoke and mirrors melt away. https://www.watchcrunch.com/casiodean/posts/addressing-the-elephant-in-the-room-270732

Oh nice, I'll check it out, thanks!

Why in the world would I chose this

When I could have a radio controlled modern watch with spot on accuracy?

Perspective.

Gorgeous and the perfect watch for a time traveller

Id pick the Lorier.

Not a fan of Mercedes hands, but a HUGE fan of broad arrow hands

It's the choice that was made for me, so I must agree.

The reasons for buying a Sub in the 60's are vastly different from those of today.

If the use case was the same today there are watches that are a fraction of the price of the Sub that would perform equally. (We all know that)

That wasn't the case back then and folk in boardrooms were not the target market for the Sub unlike today.

I live in the US and am 1,952.4 miles from the source.

I get a signal 99 % of the time.

If Rolex stop selling watches, Lorier will disappear like dust in the wind.

Because all societies who eliminate luxury products struggle to product the basic goods. See Cuba, North Corea, Russia...

The drive to do things must be fueld. If the society is economicly egalitarian, no new things appear, no new businesses develop.

A multileveld society is more dinamic and more resilient than a egalitarian one.

This is the cause i like that Rolex sells.. Luxury products are carrots that push things ahead. Moral aspect is important to draw a boundary at some point but this is a different discussion.

And you try to erase the luxury value from Rolex and compare it just metal to metal whith Lorier.

In the real word this comparation is absurd, and you know that.

Good for you. Can you buy 10 milion radio controlled watches to support this old tehnology?

I don't need to. I already have many watches that employ a technology that's a few hundred years old.

I am the boss at some japan watch company. I can sell quartz watches whith 400-800 usd maximum. I have to choose between Bluetooth and radio controlled.

Radio controlled is a market of 500milion people.

Bluetooth is a market of more than 2 miliard people.

Radio controlled is more difficult to be produced.

Bluetooth is cheaper and more stable.

I choose automatic watches too.

It all still boils down to taste. I have a Neptune and would love to also have a Sub

We can play thè hypothetical all day but at the end of the day to each their own. You can justify one watch had better quality than the other who just happen to be a well known brand. We get all of that. i always say.. buy what you want, wear what you like and who cares what others say. Enjoy the journey be happy and stop forcing your own narrative to someone else. (Not saying you. It’s a general statement)

The Lorier will blow the Rolex out of the water in every aspect, unless that Rolex has a more durable movement.

However, bringing an artifact to a time where it doesn't belong would cost so much energy (if it even were possible), that it wouldn't be worth it. Rolex it is.

Dean , have you watched Wrist watch revival with Marshall on YouTube? Just curious ashe raves about how well old Rolex’s are made ? I have watched him fascinated as he refurbishes these fine old watches , yes the case & dial quality might not be as good as Modern mass produced watches , but only time will bear out your statement In approximately 50 years , you may well be correct, you may not . No way of comparisons this soon in the mix .

Yes, I've seen a lot of them, not just Marshall, servicing Rolexes, and I have noticed that the quality of the parts used in the movements is slightly better sometimes. For instance, screws don't strip as easily, and nobody has to be as careful with things as they do with an NH35A where parts will bend if you breathe on them too hard. I'm exaggerating a bit, of course, but Rolex movements were created to undergo multiple services, whereas NH35As can be serviced but were designed to be replaced as a whole and the old one thrown in the bin. From my own experience, NH35A movements will take apart and be put together around 4 times before no amount of fiddling will get them working accurately again. Metal fatigue affects all of them though, and the older the movement, the more things will go out of phase, warp, corrode, or just generally wear out, and unless you have access to the parts (which are harder to find for Rolex), you'll end up with a useless piece of junk eventually.

I have two mechanical Seiko 6R35 , a Soprod equivalent to an ETA 2492, two Kinissi movements and two quartz movements. I have no desire to pull these watches apart but the cost value proposition for myself is just the diversion factor to offset my thinking of my everyday stresses and responsibilities so that is what I factor in as value , I hopefully won’t need to service any of these in the future as I will probably not be here with my dicky high blood pressure . All value is relative to your circumstances, I know you have voiced similar musings , have a good weekend Dean , your a great thinking man , I read and admire your wisdom and posts .

So with all of that in mind, what's the best modern movement in your opinion (in terms of value / reliability?)

I ask because sort of the genesis of this post was confronting my "common knowledge" assumption that regardless of age, the objective quality of a Rolex would obviously be "the best."

I'm not looking for staggering accuracy, I want to buy watches that will hold up to time and not be prohibitively expensive to fix when the time comes. What do you think?

Sellita SW-200 usually.

But if you want to go properly high-end, Grand Seiko Caliber 9S65.

Excellent, thanks!

It works great for me, its all about where you live.