About “true” GMTs. Do you agree?
I wrote a post about my Seiko GMT Limited Edition. In its content I talked about the basic types of GMT watches that exist, and I also explained my view about the “true” GMTs. I was trying to start a debate: it did not work😅.
I’ll try again.
This is the text I wrote:
There are two basic GMT types: the flyer/traveller type, where there is a GMT hand and you can set the local hour hand independently, and the office/caller type, where you can set the GMT hand independently. I don't like when people say "true" GMT; both are true GMTs, but with a different purpose. However, as a watch enthusiast, the flyer complication is way cooler (and more difficult to create) than the office one; that's why most of us try to have the flyer GMT one.
This is my current point of view.
What do you think? Do you agree with my view about the name “true” GMT? Is there any other explanation that makes this name correct?
Father or two little ones. I’m trying to enjoy some of my hobbies - photography and watches - and be a good father. I don’t know if I'm doing it well, but I'm not that useless; at least I can act as...
🤯 what a gorgeous watch. 😍
Reference number please 🙏
For me flyer/traveller is "true" or better GMT. I had both and if you use them to travel in diff timezone the flyer version is much more convenient, also for date setting. For me it makes only sense to use local hour hand without stopping the movement in local timezone.
As for naming/semantics I don't care, it can be whatever people like. As you said both serve the purpose but traveller is much more convenient, hence naming it "true" or better term traveller is ok.
I agree with you. Both types are true GMT watches. Calling only one "true" means the office or caller GMT is false? Sounds a bit pretentious if I have to be honest. At the end the "true" is just a marketing decision, and a poor one.
"true" GMT is a pedantic term used by snobs to look down on the less expensive caller GMT movements because they want to feel superior with their pricey watches.
There is no "true" or "false" GMT movement. They have different functions for different uses. I'm pretty sure 99% of people who own a GMT watch aren't commercial airline pilots who change timezones on a daily basis, so they would probably find a caller GMT objectively more practical and logical than a flyer GMT.
🤯 what a gorgeous watch. 😍
Reference number please 🙏
It's the Seiko SPB411J1.
If you want a full review, I explain all about it in this post from yesterday.
It's the Seiko SPB411J1.
If you want a full review, I explain all about it in this post from yesterday.
🔥🔥🔥
For me flyer/traveller is "true" or better GMT. I had both and if you use them to travel in diff timezone the flyer version is much more convenient, also for date setting. For me it makes only sense to use local hour hand without stopping the movement in local timezone.
As for naming/semantics I don't care, it can be whatever people like. As you said both serve the purpose but traveller is much more convenient, hence naming it "true" or better term traveller is ok.
In my case I would like to have the flyer type one because it's a more interesting complication. But I don't travel, and I find it very useful the office one to be able to change whereas I'm working with my colleague from Buenos Aires or when working with the people from one of the events I work with.
"true" GMT is a pedantic term used by snobs to look down on the less expensive caller GMT movements because they want to feel superior with their pricey watches.
There is no "true" or "false" GMT movement. They have different functions for different uses. I'm pretty sure 99% of people who own a GMT watch aren't commercial airline pilots who change timezones on a daily basis, so they would probably find a caller GMT objectively more practical and logical than a flyer GMT.
My problem with the traveller style gmt is - what are you supposed to do if you're flying to india, which is UTC+5:30 ? ~17% of the global population lives in a time zone that cannot be correctly shown on a "flyer" gmt but can be on a caller. So who decided the flyer GMT was the better one? Seems like an utter failure of a complication
"true" GMT is a pedantic term used by snobs to look down on the less expensive caller GMT movements because they want to feel superior with their pricey watches.
There is no "true" or "false" GMT movement. They have different functions for different uses. I'm pretty sure 99% of people who own a GMT watch aren't commercial airline pilots who change timezones on a daily basis, so they would probably find a caller GMT objectively more practical and logical than a flyer GMT.
Top comment 🔝🤣💪🏻
My problem with the traveller style gmt is - what are you supposed to do if you're flying to india, which is UTC+5:30 ? ~17% of the global population lives in a time zone that cannot be correctly shown on a "flyer" gmt but can be on a caller. So who decided the flyer GMT was the better one? Seems like an utter failure of a complication
Lots of GMT watch (flyer and office ones) have bezels with the 24 hour markings that you can rotate with clicks every 30 minutes to be able to accommodate this special timezones.
My problem with the traveller style gmt is - what are you supposed to do if you're flying to india, which is UTC+5:30 ? ~17% of the global population lives in a time zone that cannot be correctly shown on a "flyer" gmt but can be on a caller. So who decided the flyer GMT was the better one? Seems like an utter failure of a complication
Not quite sure why the flyer GMT won’t work in this situation? Wouldn’t I set GMT hand to be same as local time first, fly to India and set local time hands when I land there?
It’s largely irrelevant to me. If I traveled a lot maybe I’d care. Not a dig, just personally I don’t mind the office GMT
Agree… the traveler is more expensive to make and therefore buy. But, for me, the office GMT or even a World Timer is more useful. For an extended period of time (weeks) I work with a customer or team in another country and always need to know their time of day during the engagement.
I agree. The original GMT-Master was certainly a “true” GMT. Going even further, if you are a Pan Am pilot, you are definitely a “flyer”.
Id just say Jump Settable Hour hand.
Personally, Id also say date settable only by hour hand is a huge feature for me. Quick set is a liability.
I think with the release (flood?) of the affordable Miyota “True” GMT movement making ~ $500 Travelers watches, the snobbery and the use of the “True” term will subside a bit.
I also find the Caller/Office type more convenient/practical, and don’t like how the Travelers GMT lacks a quick-set-date (Miyota 9075).
Having said that, Travelers is the more interesting movement. So I have 1 “True” GMT (which is cheaper than many of my 3 handers 😁✌️).
Thank you. Did you read the post about that watch I wrote yesterday?
No, I didn't. I'll check it out. Thanks!
I do not get to set the terminology, but I'm able to share my thoughts about how bad this name I think it is.
Yes, and I believe you have. Personally I think it is not a big deal. 😀
My problem with the traveller style gmt is - what are you supposed to do if you're flying to india, which is UTC+5:30 ? ~17% of the global population lives in a time zone that cannot be correctly shown on a "flyer" gmt but can be on a caller. So who decided the flyer GMT was the better one? Seems like an utter failure of a complication
Newfoundland also agrees with your point about 'flyer" movements.
The first GMT watch sold to the public, a Glycine Airman, had a caller movement. It was designed specifically for pilots. Back then, Gander airport in Newfoundland was a major Atlantic stop over point as planes of that era needed to be refueled, given their smaller fuel tanks.
Perhaps Glycine were onto something that, today, has been forgotten..
If there is a bezel to be moved, I remembered that were watches that use a 24 hrs indicator hand to calculate the time with the bezel of a city, just point the 24 hrs hand to the home city on the bezel and you'll know every local time of other cities on the bezel.
That’s a different kind of watch, a world timer. Usually the world timer does not have a GMT hand, but a inner circle with the 24 hour markers that you can rotate. Then the cities on the external rotating bezel. The movement inside could be the same as an office gmt, but the way of interacting and reading the time is different
I agree as the phrase “true” GMT makes no sense to me.
I disagree that the flyer is cooler. The GMT function is no more than a tool. If you are a frequent traveler switching between times zones, the flyer makes sense. If you stay local but need to track another time zone, the caller suffices and is usually cheaper.
Saying the flyer GMT is the better or luxury option now available to the masses sounds like marketing because brands can charge a premium for it - I’m looking at you most micro brands that hype the function.
I agree as the phrase “true” GMT makes no sense to me.
I disagree that the flyer is cooler. The GMT function is no more than a tool. If you are a frequent traveler switching between times zones, the flyer makes sense. If you stay local but need to track another time zone, the caller suffices and is usually cheaper.
Saying the flyer GMT is the better or luxury option now available to the masses sounds like marketing because brands can charge a premium for it - I’m looking at you most micro brands that hype the function.
When I said cooler I meant from the horological prospective. It’s a more difficult complication to create, so it’s cooler for us as enthusiasts. Useful, I completely agree, depending of what do you need.
When I said cooler I meant from the horological prospective. It’s a more difficult complication to create, so it’s cooler for us as enthusiasts. Useful, I completely agree, depending of what do you need.
That’s a goo point about it being more difficult. However, it seems Miyota has gotten the build process to a place where it could produce thousands easily.
IMO “true” should mean rotating 24h bezel, which means the 24h hand can be set to GMT/UTC, and the bezel is adjusted appropriately to the time zone you desire, on the fly. “Flyer” means jumping hour hand. “Caller” means jumping 24h hand. But either could be “true” gmts is my take.
That’s not to say I think it’s a better option. It’s all about use case and what you want!
I own many watches that are “gmt” watches without this feature. Sometimes I prefer it - I love having a dive bezel on my Lorier Hydra “flyer” to time things. I modded my Seiko SSK003 “caller” with a 12h bezel to help my brain more easily track another time zone locally, since the 24h track is already on the rehaut.
"true" GMT is a pedantic term used by snobs to look down on the less expensive caller GMT movements because they want to feel superior with their pricey watches.
There is no "true" or "false" GMT movement. They have different functions for different uses. I'm pretty sure 99% of people who own a GMT watch aren't commercial airline pilots who change timezones on a daily basis, so they would probably find a caller GMT objectively more practical and logical than a flyer GMT.
Fun fact: the original Rolex GMT Master was a “caller” GMT…it wasn’t until the GMT Master II that a “traveler” style movement was introduced
That’s a goo point about it being more difficult. However, it seems Miyota has gotten the build process to a place where it could produce thousands easily.
Yes, that’s true. There are lots of flyer GMT with the new Miyota movement in the lower price tag.
Yep, completely agree. True is a ridiculous term, I never use it.
I have two of each type of GMT, and each has their pros and cons. I had to click my Zulu Time forward by 15 days yesterday. That was laborious, but when i'm travelling, the ability to just pull the crown and skip forwards/backwards to the right time so easily makes up for it. The difference with my Master Collection is that the Day & Date have seperate pushers to adjust, so I get the convenience of both caller and flyer!
Oh, and a worldtimer just for good measuer.
That’s a different kind of watch, a world timer. Usually the world timer does not have a GMT hand, but a inner circle with the 24 hour markers that you can rotate. Then the cities on the external rotating bezel. The movement inside could be the same as an office gmt, but the way of interacting and reading the time is different
https://yeomanseiko.com/2010/10/03/orient-gmt-international-model-ffe06001b/, I think this is one of them, the 24 hour "GMT" hand cannot be set separately and the bezel is use to track 2nd time. A world time is usualy with a moving disc tracking all the cities.
https://yeomanseiko.com/2010/10/03/orient-gmt-international-model-ffe06001b/, I think this is one of them, the 24 hour "GMT" hand cannot be set separately and the bezel is use to track 2nd time. A world time is usualy with a moving disc tracking all the cities.
In that comment I was talking about the ones with a bezel with the cities of the world representing the time zones: a world timer. Like the famous Patek Philippe
or the amazing Farer:
Yep, completely agree. True is a ridiculous term, I never use it.
I have two of each type of GMT, and each has their pros and cons. I had to click my Zulu Time forward by 15 days yesterday. That was laborious, but when i'm travelling, the ability to just pull the crown and skip forwards/backwards to the right time so easily makes up for it. The difference with my Master Collection is that the Day & Date have seperate pushers to adjust, so I get the convenience of both caller and flyer!
Oh, and a worldtimer just for good measuer.
What a collection!!! Love. You have a Bamford too!!!
What a collection!!! Love. You have a Bamford too!!!
Thank you for the kind words! Yep, love the Bamford, it and the Farer show how diverse watches can be when they're both British blue dial GMT watches with the same movement.