Another "problematic" Seiko 6R movement...
...that a strip-mall watch shop was able to bring within 2-seconds/day accuracy.
So my love of this design and the mind-bogglingly sharp finishing of the case, dial, and, especially, bracelet is unshakable and, I think, unmatched anywhere near its price. Unfortunately...the movement. I had remarkable luck with Seiko watches in the past so I didn't care much about the reflexive criticism of the 6R movement going in a watch at this price. Unfortunately, this one was running far out of spec—50 seconds slow per day—which I had to admit, was unacceptable for any new watch, regardless of price.
Since I love everything this watch is, I had no intention of getting rid of it, so it was really about whether or not to send it back for warranty repair. Instead, I took it to a local, independent shop that happens to sell Seiko's entry-level line. In less than 10 minutes, the owner handed me back the watch, now regulated within 2 seconds-per-day. It was such a simple fix that he didn't even charge me for his effort.
End result is that I'm even more in love with this watch and have lost no faith in Seiko. Yes, it'd be nice if they regulated the 6R at the factory, especially at this price, but that I could get this thing tweaked to METAS accuracy in less time and for less cost (free!) than getting a coffee at Starbucks kinda says something.
As things stand now, this is simply a gorgeously designed and luxuriously finished piece with legitimate heritage, with a completely in-house, highly-accurate movement (admittedly after 10 minutes of watchmaker attention) from a brand that has been continuously operating and innovating since the 1800s.
Serious question...is there a Swiss brand offering that at even twice the price?
Design obsessive who loves watches but loathes the watch industry and the snobbery and flex-culture that feeds it. What’s a boy to do?
It is an AWESOME watch! Brilliant that you got it regulated to such precision!
Is that SPB279? Gorgeous watch. However, i found your "challenge" to be a bit... unfair.
Look, it's a Seiko "inhouse" movement. Does it even count? In that case, everyone under Swatch group also has inhouse movements, since ETA is under their ownership (and they have been working to restrict its sales to outsiders; not that Seiko doesn't sell it's goodies to others).
Then, it becomes fight of the behemoths. And Switzerland does have some pretty decent options at that price level. In fact, at less than half that price, you have the still pretty popular Tissot PRX automatic watch. Somehow, I can't quite pinpoint anything right at $2k from Swatch at this moment (Mido is too low, Longines is too high), but you can see there are options in that line. If Swatch is too cheesy for you, Richemont can offer something at that price level too. Montblanc has some pretty compelling options on their catalogs.
I am not saying that King Seiko isn't good. It's good. But to discount the entire country of Switzerland? It's not quite good enough for that...
Now, either Credor or Seiko Presage might be able to fight that battle. But King Seiko is in a very competitive price segment.
Longines is about the only contender I can think of. 👍
I own several Seiko. I regulated them myself. Swiss made is more expensive, but different design. Like toyota vs bmw :)
Is that SPB279? Gorgeous watch. However, i found your "challenge" to be a bit... unfair.
Look, it's a Seiko "inhouse" movement. Does it even count? In that case, everyone under Swatch group also has inhouse movements, since ETA is under their ownership (and they have been working to restrict its sales to outsiders; not that Seiko doesn't sell it's goodies to others).
Then, it becomes fight of the behemoths. And Switzerland does have some pretty decent options at that price level. In fact, at less than half that price, you have the still pretty popular Tissot PRX automatic watch. Somehow, I can't quite pinpoint anything right at $2k from Swatch at this moment (Mido is too low, Longines is too high), but you can see there are options in that line. If Swatch is too cheesy for you, Richemont can offer something at that price level too. Montblanc has some pretty compelling options on their catalogs.
I am not saying that King Seiko isn't good. It's good. But to discount the entire country of Switzerland? It's not quite good enough for that...
Now, either Credor or Seiko Presage might be able to fight that battle. But King Seiko is in a very competitive price segment.
All fair points, and I'm by no means discounting all Swiss watches—I love and own them as well. My point is more that, at this price, the Swiss options come down to badge-engineered options that aren't finished to nearly this degree and only include third-party or "in-group" movements. I do make a distinction between Seiko and, say, Longines which is no longer a watch manufacturer, merely a logo Swatch puts on watches and movements it makes centrally, playing off of an assumed heritage and legacy that ceased to exist when Longines ceased doing any R&D or manufacturing of its own. To me, Swatch is really no different than how GM used to pretend that Pontiac, Buick, Chevy, and Cadillac were different car companies, even though all of them were built in the same plants, using the same parts, and only differentiated by a few styling modifications, options, and price tiering. They still make plenty of truly great products at all price points, but it's got a whiff of hucksterism about it when you consider that a Tissot PRX is mechanically identical to any number of offerings from in the group or that IWC pretends that the movement in the Mark XX isn't identical one Baume & Mercier is also selling as in-house. Perhaps it's splitting hairs (isn't that what this hobby is all about?), but I do appreciate the honesty in Seiko's approach of putting Seiko on every watch and movement it makes rather than the common Swiss practice of conglomerates badge-engineering the same watches and movements across sub-brands.
Longines is about the only contender I can think of. 👍
They have some beautiful stuff. I'd put the Longines Spirit 37 (which I love) closest to this in terms of style and finishing, but it's $700 more than the KS.
That certainly is a lovely watch but I would be outraged if I paid King Seiko money for a watch that was so inaccurate out of the box and my instinct would probably be to return it for a refund.
I’m not knowledgeable about Swiss watches with in house movements but as magice has already commented Swatch group own ETA so it’s perhaps reasonable to say that those movements are kind of ‘in house’.
I’m more inclined to look at it another way. Nodus regulates Seiko movements to within +/-10 sec/day. I have to wonder why if a microbrand can do that why buyers have to play the accuracy lottery when buying a Seiko costing 3or4 times as much.
That certainly is a lovely watch but I would be outraged if I paid King Seiko money for a watch that was so inaccurate out of the box and my instinct would probably be to return it for a refund.
I’m not knowledgeable about Swiss watches with in house movements but as magice has already commented Swatch group own ETA so it’s perhaps reasonable to say that those movements are kind of ‘in house’.
I’m more inclined to look at it another way. Nodus regulates Seiko movements to within +/-10 sec/day. I have to wonder why if a microbrand can do that why buyers have to play the accuracy lottery when buying a Seiko costing 3or4 times as much.
It's totally fair and I wouldn't blame anyone for returning a watch running so far out of spec. I also agree Seiko could and should regulate these at the factory, but getting it regulated and running at such a high level of accuracy was so simple—literally an errand I ran during lunch and still had time to grab a bite on the way back—that I'm thrilled with the results. If I wasn't so enthralled with everything else about the watch I may have returned it myself, but what I'm left with is just about perfect for me.
The movement should have been a better one, but I can’t say I would have been suckered in by this watch if I had the money
Owner of a 6R35 alpinist, my 250$ Citizen runs better 🙃
But your King Seiko costs twice my Alpinist, it sucks. I understand your frustration and hope you’ll find what u are looking for !
Gorgeous watch. 👏
I keep saying that enthusiasts are blowing this factory accuracy thing out of proportions and Seiko movements are famous for being easy to regulate for a few bucks only, or in your case for free. I regulate mines myself since I started modding.
Some people would rather pay a huge premium for a chronometer certification out of the box than walk to a shop and give $25 to the local watchmaker for the same result. Nonsense.
I would look at Longines, which has several models in the range, Oris Artelier S models and Frederique Constant. These are all at around 2k.
Crazy that Seiko don't do this from the factory, wear in good health!
For the prices they charge for most 6R watches (1,000+ dollars) i wish they would actually put in the effort to regulate it within a guaranteed +/- 10 seconds per day. It is pretty unacceptable for them to quote such a huge deviation. Pretty sneaky of them too. -15 to +25 means they dont have to fix your watch under warranty if it does run that bad. And here i still buy their watches. Those dials and case polish are hypnotizing 🤪
My fav case.
I’d prefer a watch which at least reasonably accurate out of the box. As I said in a previous post if Nodus can do it then surely a company such as Seiko should be able to do it. I wouldn’t want to take a £1500+ watch to a watchmaker to take the back off before it is fit for purpose.
I would want a refund or a replacement watch that is fit for purpose.
Nodus is a micro brand that doesn't produce nearly the same volume of watches as a giant company like Seiko Epson. They make millions of timepieces per year and regulating such volume would slow production which would affect the final price.
Maybe you would rather pay $100 extra on all watches across all ranges for tighter tolerances out of the box instead of $20 to a local watchmaker on a bad draw. I certainly would not prefer an outcome that would negatively affect the value and my buying power.
Plus, most of the time they run within 5 sec/day from my experience, and don't require any extra cost. Only the unlucky outliers do cost $20 to improve if you're anal about accuracy (overrated).
I have a Hanhart 417 1954. Currently running at about +2s/day. Cost £1650.
Congrats, amazing chrono. I am seriously considering Pioneer replacing my Alpinist, will have 417 one day too
If a local watchmaker (and Nodus) can regulate Seiko movements for £25 then Seiko themselves should be able to do similar. If that adds £25 to the price of a watch then so be it. I’d gladly pay that rather than play the Seiko accuracy lottery which I’ve stopped doing).
If a local watchmaker (and Nodus) can regulate Seiko movements for £25 then Seiko themselves should be able to do similar. If that adds £25 to the price of a watch then so be it. I’d gladly pay that rather than play the Seiko accuracy lottery which I’ve stopped doing).
No argument for me on that point, but the overall design and finishing of the case, dial, and bracelet are unique and the finishing so stunning that paying (or in my case, not paying) $20 to get the movement humming perfectly is more than worth it for everything else it offers. And, for what it's worth, I had an IWC that took two trips to Switzerland and the movement still didn't tick like it should. My luck with Seiko has been pretty good, this being only the 2nd time I've gotten one that required any attention at all.
Cheers bro! I'm loving the kings as well.
Definitely one of my favourite watch on my collections
A very gentlemanly watch...that a lady could also wear, with equal appeal.
That certainly is a lovely watch but I would be outraged if I paid King Seiko money for a watch that was so inaccurate out of the box and my instinct would probably be to return it for a refund.
I’m not knowledgeable about Swiss watches with in house movements but as magice has already commented Swatch group own ETA so it’s perhaps reasonable to say that those movements are kind of ‘in house’.
I’m more inclined to look at it another way. Nodus regulates Seiko movements to within +/-10 sec/day. I have to wonder why if a microbrand can do that why buyers have to play the accuracy lottery when buying a Seiko costing 3or4 times as much.
All vaild points,I’m outraged,had to send my KS twice back to seiko.One was for it being very inaccurate.
If a local watchmaker (and Nodus) can regulate Seiko movements for £25 then Seiko themselves should be able to do similar. If that adds £25 to the price of a watch then so be it. I’d gladly pay that rather than play the Seiko accuracy lottery which I’ve stopped doing).
Good point
Your were lucky.Watchmaker hooked it up.Beats sending it back to seiko.
Your were lucky.Watchmaker hooked it up.Beats sending it back to seiko.
No doubt! My one experience with Seiko’s service center was not good at all.
All fair points, and I'm by no means discounting all Swiss watches—I love and own them as well. My point is more that, at this price, the Swiss options come down to badge-engineered options that aren't finished to nearly this degree and only include third-party or "in-group" movements. I do make a distinction between Seiko and, say, Longines which is no longer a watch manufacturer, merely a logo Swatch puts on watches and movements it makes centrally, playing off of an assumed heritage and legacy that ceased to exist when Longines ceased doing any R&D or manufacturing of its own. To me, Swatch is really no different than how GM used to pretend that Pontiac, Buick, Chevy, and Cadillac were different car companies, even though all of them were built in the same plants, using the same parts, and only differentiated by a few styling modifications, options, and price tiering. They still make plenty of truly great products at all price points, but it's got a whiff of hucksterism about it when you consider that a Tissot PRX is mechanically identical to any number of offerings from in the group or that IWC pretends that the movement in the Mark XX isn't identical one Baume & Mercier is also selling as in-house. Perhaps it's splitting hairs (isn't that what this hobby is all about?), but I do appreciate the honesty in Seiko's approach of putting Seiko on every watch and movement it makes rather than the common Swiss practice of conglomerates badge-engineering the same watches and movements across sub-brands.
Agreed. Seiko is the most 'in-house' movement maison. They have always developed their own movements vs buying a movement manufacturer. Even Rolex bought their movements and acquired their in house movements by taking over other firms.
Nice, that’s a goal of mine. I have a few siekos and I would love to learn how to regulate them myself.
everybody learn new skill from youtube 🥰
No doubt! My one experience with Seiko’s service center was not good at all.
My first one wasn’t either,sent watch in after a weeks ownership.Tried to set time,it felt like crown was full of sand.Binding badly,received it running super slow!!! Now it seems OK.
Agreed. Seiko is the most 'in-house' movement maison. They have always developed their own movements vs buying a movement manufacturer. Even Rolex bought their movements and acquired their in house movements by taking over other firms.
100%. Me buying a restaurant doesn't make me a chef, and if I get carry out from the restaurant I bought, I don't get to call that meal "homemade."
Thing is, I'm not really someone who cares about whether or not a movement originates in-house as long as it's high quality. In fact, I prefer an easy-to-service, proven Sellita over someone reinventing the wheel for marketing points as that just results in less reliable, poorer performing movements that are harder and more expensive to service when they inevitably fail. But I do hate how so many brands obfuscate or outright lie to claim that their movements are in-house to justify higher prices and make themselves seem more legitimate as watchmakers. To me, the rule is simple: If the name on the dial and rotor matches the name of the company that designed and built the movement, it's in-house. If it doesn't, it ain't and no amount of "this brand is owned by the same conglomerate as that movement company" in-group nonsense can change that.
Again, it's not a hang-up of mine, and I actually think those ETA clones are generally great, but we should at least hold brands, journalists, and each other to a basic standard of truth in advertising. Kudos to Christopher Ward for being fully transparent on such things. They're far more honest than the vast majority of brands who come up with silly calibre designations and slap a logo on the rotor to make us think they're doing the hard work of making movements rather than just designing and marketing the watches they're dropped into.
My first one wasn’t either,sent watch in after a weeks ownership.Tried to set time,it felt like crown was full of sand.Binding badly,received it running super slow!!! Now it seems OK.
The only watch I ever sent to Seiko for repair came back running even worse, several minutes off per day. When I sent it back to them, they asked the AD if I'd opened it up myself because the balance wheel wasn't seated properly. Thankfully, the AD stood behind me and told them, no, the only person who'd opened the watch was the Seiko repair tech we'd just gotten it back from. That watch has been working perfectly ever since, but it's scared me off of their service center.
I'm currently trying to scale back so I'm only left with a few I can actually wear and enjoy often—I'm kinda finding that the more I sell off, the more I love the ones that are left!
I agree, I just had a bit of a cull too, shed a few pieces that don't get any wrist time ⌚