My Hanhart Dilemma
This is a tale of four Hanhart watches:
417 ES chrono
Pioneer One
Pioneer One Limited Edition
Pioneer One Nightblue Limited Edition
You see, I've pondered getting the 417 ES for some time. And no, not the 39mm one, but the 42mm one. With a 20cm wrist, I make 42's look like 39's do on you blokes with smaller wrists.
Locally, the 417 ES is $3000 Aussie. It's a significant purchase.
Lurking in the background, however, is the Pioneer One. It utilises the case and the overall look of the 417 ES, but it's not a chrono. As I already have two chronos in my eight watch collection, however, that doesn't stress me. It's also not an historical model for Hanhart, but at $1500 Aussie it's a much easier purchase.
So I was starting to lean towards the Pioneer One, until I noticed limited runs that have happened at least twice (and possibly a third time if rumours of a run for a watch forum are true), which have produced watches with no date window (and I LOVE not having a date window), and a slightly simpler dial which I think gave it a more classic look. Love at first sight.
Unfortunately, the limited edition Pioneer One that you can still buy, right now, from Watchbuys in the US is the 'Nightblue' version, which is PVD coated and although I don't hate PVD coated watches, I'm not super drawn to them, either.
The other limited edition, from 2018, is only 150 watches in size and although I can lay my hands on two - right now - on the aftermarket, by the time I pay a slight premium for them, and get them shipped to Australia, and pay GST and import duties... they're both pushing $3000.
Which is what the 417 ES costs. Ugh.
So do I spend 417 ES money on a five-year-old limited edition (and I emphasise that the 150 unit nature of the release is NOT why I want it; I want it for the no date dial, etc), or do I take that same amount of money and get a brand new 417 ES?
417 ES Pros
Brand new
Arguably a better watch than the three hander
Historical; uses the classic Hanhart logo
Associated heavily with Hanhart
417 ES Cons
Price - $3000 is a chunk of change
I already have chronos and don't 'need' a chrono
Pioneer One Limited Edition Pros
Looks really good
Doesn't have a date window
A curiosity; a Hanhart that's not a chrono
I don't currently own a three-hander flieger style watch
Pioneer One Limited Edition Cons
Uses the modern Hanhart logo
Price - $3000 is a chunk of change, especially for a five year old watch that sold a lot cheaper, new, versus a brand-new watch from the same maker
Is already five years old; might need servicing
Isn't an historical piece from a company known for its history
I think that just about covers it. What would you do? Have you been in similar situations where a watch 'almost' does it all, like the bog standard Pioneer One does, then you learn of a special edition that perfects the watch (in my case, by deleting the date window), but is very hard and/or more expensive to buy?
Thanks for reading this far. Your thoughts...???
I've loved watches all my life, going back to the 1980s. Current watchbox: Seiko, Bulova, and Casio.
Do you really really want the 417 ES for the OG look? If so, I say go for it.
If you want just a Hanhart, any of the Pioneer One in the market should be a good buy. It's up to you.
Trust the Force!
Go for no date!
Do you really really want the 417 ES for the OG look? If so, I say go for it.
If you want just a Hanhart, any of the Pioneer One in the market should be a good buy. It's up to you.
Trust the Force!
This is the thing... I look at the $1500 standard version of the Pioneer One (black dial, brown leather would be my pick), and I think, "That looks really great! I like that!" but then I look where the '3' should be and I'm like... grrrrrr. It's the one aspect that holds me back picking up the phone to the Aussie distributor right now and having one sent down to me.
If I never knew that a no date existed, I'd probably have bought the standard by now.
Go for no date!
Oh I know, I know... knowing it exists has stuffed the whole purchase process for me!
This is the thing... I look at the $1500 standard version of the Pioneer One (black dial, brown leather would be my pick), and I think, "That looks really great! I like that!" but then I look where the '3' should be and I'm like... grrrrrr. It's the one aspect that holds me back picking up the phone to the Aussie distributor right now and having one sent down to me.
If I never knew that a no date existed, I'd probably have bought the standard by now.
Time to start your OnlyFans and rake in the moolah, sweet cheeks. 🤣
It's also not lost on me that I once lusted after this watch.
Any guesses why I didn't buy it, in the end?
Love my 417 ES!
And I'm also giving away a Pioneer Silva for my Movember charity raffle 😉
Love my 417 ES!
And I'm also giving away a Pioneer Silva for my Movember charity raffle 😉
Very cool... and reminds me that Movember has spread so far from our shores here!
I’m saving up for the 417ES 42mm. It’s gonna take a while but I just love the way it looks
Does the red lion edition come in 42?
Does the red lion edition come in 42?
No, it was a typical TGV watch and only came in the smaller size. Which is totally historical for the watch itself, and his personal preference being a tiny man in general (see his recent Rangemaster which was only 37mm!), and even if it did, they've been long sold out and are super duper hard to come by. But confirming that they didn't. Just 39mm for that one.
No, it was a typical TGV watch and only came in the smaller size. Which is totally historical for the watch itself, and his personal preference being a tiny man in general (see his recent Rangemaster which was only 37mm!), and even if it did, they've been long sold out and are super duper hard to come by. But confirming that they didn't. Just 39mm for that one.
Dang ok.
In a basic sense... is that missing '3' worth $1500 more (and an older watch)?
Oh I know, I know... knowing it exists has stuffed the whole purchase process for me!
I think it’s important to buy what your heart and eye desires, rather than fill a place, finish a list or cheat yourself with “not quite exactly “.
All the best!
I Would definitely go chrono....
The Steve McQueen Hanhart.
The Steve McQueen Hanhart.
Pretty much. Would need the 39mm version of the 417ES to be really on the money.
What’s the movement? “Temposchaltung”. Is it any good?
What’s the movement? “Temposchaltung”. Is it any good?
In the 417 ES? Hand-wound Sellita SW 510 M.
In the Pioneer One? Automatic Sellita SW 200.
I’m a bit biased since I’m in the market for a Flieger/Aviation inspired chronograph. The 39mm Hanhart is a strong candidate. Imo the subdials eating up the negative space on the dial is perfect for the watch.
What’s the movement? “Temposchaltung”. Is it any good?
Temposchaltung is the historical used German term for Flyback complication. The Hanhart chronographs with Flyback are almost "cheap" compared what a Flyback usually sets you back.
I lust over the 417ES so that would be my pick. But this isn't about what we think, it's about what makes you happy. You don't 'need' any of them so I suggest you go with the one you 'want' most and if that is the one you have to save for and dish out 3k then, don't settle and pull the trigger when ready.👍
Definitely the chrono.
Chrono all the way. If you're gonna spend the money, that's where it's at IMO. All your other choices have compromises attached to them. The chrono's "pitfall" is its price, which all said and done is comparable to any Swiss chrono.
I don't need any watch and I don't like to pay more than $500 for any of them, but I do because I forget what I paid in about 2 weeks but I enjoy the watch for a long time. All of this of course if you're spending responsibly and within your means which I assume you are.
To be honest with Hanhart you get the quality and the 100m WR. I was on the same boat a year ago and most flieger style watches are 30m WR or the saving were minimal.
Here are some more affordable options (not the exact watch) but a type XX from an actual company that made them back in the 50s,60s.
Also from Microbrands you have Hemel using a seagull movement regulated by them.
I feel your pain. I live in Los Angeles and no watch dealers carry Hanhart or anything close to it. I had to gamble and fork out 2k on a watch I have not even seen in person. Going through the hassle of returning a watch is just a pain as well.
I have both the Pioneer One and the 417 ES Fly-back in 39mm. Both watches have their own unique characteristics. I love them both and you cannot go wrong with either one of them.
Ken
I fully understand your dilemma as I was in same position between Nightblue limited version and black Pioneer One for months. I ultimately decided for black normal one as PVD is a bigger painpoint for me that date execution. I would love to get the normal black one without the date as position of date is a bit awkward ( there is a step in the dial and date cuts in between ) but at least the black version has no frame around the date and with black dial you can't see it without trying hard.
All in all the watch is great and punches way above its price in fit and finish. Also regulated Selita movement runs well within COSC ( at least mine does ).
417ES is another beast altogether and as you wrote you don't need new chrono, hence decide for one of Pioneer One options. I will buy 417ES at some point but for this recent purchase I was looking at simple 3 hander as daily driver/beater that replaced the Alpinist.
So my advice go for current black Pioneer One, you will not regret it. Here is my post from couple of weeks ago if it helps:
https://www.watchcrunch.com/Mare0104/posts/replacing-seiko-alpinist-with-hanhart-pioneer-one-241978
I fully understand your dilemma as I was in same position between Nightblue limited version and black Pioneer One for months. I ultimately decided for black normal one as PVD is a bigger painpoint for me that date execution. I would love to get the normal black one without the date as position of date is a bit awkward ( there is a step in the dial and date cuts in between ) but at least the black version has no frame around the date and with black dial you can't see it without trying hard.
All in all the watch is great and punches way above its price in fit and finish. Also regulated Selita movement runs well within COSC ( at least mine does ).
417ES is another beast altogether and as you wrote you don't need new chrono, hence decide for one of Pioneer One options. I will buy 417ES at some point but for this recent purchase I was looking at simple 3 hander as daily driver/beater that replaced the Alpinist.
So my advice go for current black Pioneer One, you will not regret it. Here is my post from couple of weeks ago if it helps:
https://www.watchcrunch.com/Mare0104/posts/replacing-seiko-alpinist-with-hanhart-pioneer-one-241978
Great reply! Yes, I'm starting to think the regular black Pioneer One will be absolutely fine, if no other limited editions are on the horizon. I'm hitting up everyone from Hanhart itself to fan groups to ensure I don't toss down my heard-earned and a month later they're like, "Oh, hey guys, we're doing another no-date Pioneer One really soon..." But if it's not on the horizon, I'm fine with the regular version. And a 417ES as well. One day :)
Hanhart ES 417 is their classic and is based on the "Bundeswehr Flieger" from the 50s. I also like their Preventor 9 model series and their new, more dressy Silva model. I think you can't go wrong with any Hanhart.
I would go with the 417 es. It is a great watch. I love mine. I have three hanharts. Had four. Sold one. Still have regrets. I will be replacing it with the black dial model soon. They are my favorite brand. Look on eBay. I have seen like new ones go for cheap. I got a perventor 9 and the limited edition 105 there for 600 each. Both less than a year old. I think a 417 just sold for around 1500 us.