Are lower end Seikos overrated

I love Seiko but you’re right that there are a lot of other options out there, namely Orient. In terms of Steeldive and SM, they use Seiko movements so they can save on the R&D costs of designing and creating the movement and actual Watch design and dump it into dial, case, and other components. Not saying what’s right or fair, it’s just economics.

But SM, etc. also have to buy the movement from Seiko. And Seiko will have them pay part of the design costs. Which is included in the price of the movement.

I love my Seikos as well. But I think for the price we should have sapphire etc.

Quick search online and the NH35 goes for about $40…I’m sure SM and others can buy those in bulk for much less. Either way, SM doesn’t pay for the upfront design and manufacturing of the movement. Each one they buy is a minute fraction of the total cost, which covers mostly materials and labor. Then SM can use those savings to source higher end materials.

As a customer you can just switch to a brand that gives you what you want... That seems to be a lesson some brands(Timex, Orient, SM) have reeled in, and others(Seiko) haven't.

Since Seiko makes the movement for many of these other micro brands you’re mentioning, and they certainly have the R&D and manufacturing scale, they can price to whatever they perceive is best for them in the market. I would imagine their decision is complex and considers their other product lines, and perceived image and availability of competition. For all I know, maybe they make more money on selling NH35, NH36, NH34 than their own line of watches that are based on 4R35, 4R36, 4R34, and so don’t want to compete. 🤷‍♂️ I’ve been very happy with all of my Seiko over the past decades. I do believe Seiko sand bags their specs and that one should not their movement performance on those specs if one wants an accurate picture. My 4R36 movement (SPRE93) typically perform 10x more accurate than it’s specs would imply. My 4R34 movement is about 5x more accurate than their specs would imply.

Seiko has flaws but I love the dials and am a fan of the tuna models. Look at SRPG59 — Save the Ocean Baby Tuna Happy Feet. You can pick it up for around 345 Euros. Sure there are better watches at the price point but we like what we like I suppose. On the hunt for a sapphire replacement.

Seiko 5 is like a gateway to many people in the hobby from a well known brand that is readily available to anyone looking for a watch. When you buy a Seiko, you know this watch is going to work as intended as the specs suggest unlike these online homage brands you may have to roll a dice to know whether it works as the specs say. San Martin may offer a watch at $100 with better specs than an entry level Seiko but can you really guarantee if that watch will last as long as a Seiko? Anyone outside the watch hobby won't know even if these brands exist unless you come across some ads on the internet.

You cannot really compare these online brands to Seiko. You should also know you are paying extra for the brand value and availability of service that comes along with the brand, the same goes for any established brands. Seiko is one of the reasons many micro brands exist today, making it easier to get going without developing the major component of the watch. You should read up on the amount of time and money they have put into developing the technology to mass manufacture reliable automatic movements over the years.

If you take a look at how these micro brands operate, their overhead cost would be much lower. Seiko and Rolex are the only vertically integrated watch manufacturers (Citizen to an extent but is not considered because of how Miyota operates). I have never had a problem with hardlex on my SNXS and SKX over the last 8 years, maybe a couple of micros scratches on my SKX. I prefer the clarity of hardlex on the watches compared to a cheaply manufactured sapphire. Some people praise the use of hesalite and boxed mineral crystal on a few microbrands but complain if Seiko uses them on their entry level presage models. You really cannot satisfy everyone.

I'm a big fan of my SKX 🤷🏻‍♂️

Personally, I would love to own a Seiko diver but I get confused in the model# alphabet soup. Not sure which ones are good, bad or otherwise. That’s why there’s not one in my watch box.

I’d appreciate a tutorial here or elsewhere that breaks down what is what with the brand.

Stepping up a level or two will get you more of what you want with Seiko. Think prospex or presage lines, that is the sweet spot. You pay more, but you get more.

I think the old-school Seiko 5s (the smaller ones) are lousy watches. I have three and they keep poor time and don't have much power reserve. But as desirable sparkly little objects, they are without peer. And I swear each one of my Seiko 5s has a distinct "personality" that fits the appearance of the watch. My SNK807, with its military styling, is the most steady and disciplined although it's not great. My SNK375, with its snappy red stripe on its black dial, thinks it's a gauge out of a 1960s sports car and so it always runs fast. And my SNKK87 is a little diva. It has one of the prettiest dials you'll see on any watch, and she is as happy as can be as long as she's being worn. She's the most accurate, but as soon as you take her off your wrist, she sulks and instantly slows down and in just a few hours will stop completely.

Both the 1960s gauge SNK375 and the little diva SNKK87 have suffered very violent falls onto a bathroom tile floor and a hardwood floor respectively. Both fell smack on their Hardlex crystals and suffered almost no damage whatsoever. The SNK375 had the tiniest scratch on the bezel that you would never notice if you didn't know it was there. The pretty little SNKK87 was completely unscathed.

Some complain about the cheap tinny Seiko 5 bracelets, but I just love them. They're so thin that they're very comfortable, and I think the (over) polish looks great. And they've proven very durable over the years. To use one of your closing sentences: "Don't buy Seiko 5s and you miss on a big, lovely chunk of the best humanity has to offer."

When Steeldive is doing it better and MUCH cheaper with REAL Seiko movements, yes. Low end Seikos are a bad joke.

I think Seikos sub $500 are good value and good watches to just own and collect for enthusiasts as I am. I don’t know all the model serial numbers of my Seikos but I enjoy the look of each one. And at sub $500 giving away one to my 16 year old nephew for his first automatic watch is something I could afford but seeing him wide eyes and saying “wow” is priceless.

I own a couple SARBs, a couple Cocktail Times, a couple old time Seiko 5s, and haven't had any trouble with any of them. Almost all the QC complaints are about misaligned bezels. If the watch doesn't have a rotating bezel with markings on them, there's nothing to misalign. I don't much care about divers, so none of my Seikos have rotating bezels. Don't buy divers, no QC issues, problem solved. Seiko Presages are among the most striking and unique watches for the price, so a great place to start a collection, as I did. Divers are mostly samey samey, so meh.

Seiko would be fine if they regulated their mechanical movements before sending them out to be sold. And they really need to tighten up their specs as relates to time keeping. Those are very loose and sometimes their new watches don’t even meet their generous specs.

I can buy a sapphire crystal for my Casio MDV106 to do mod projects, so Seiko could definitely buy them for cents on the dollar when purchased in bulk. If they did that, though, they wouldn't be able to charge $400 for a Prospex with mineral glass and then upcharge to thousands of dollars for a Grand Seiko with sapphire.

Which is why I will probably never own a Seiko.

Its simple economics, Seiko is not a small manufacturer to cut costs in some way to increase overhead. If you are producing at the scale of Seiko while being a vertically integrated manufacturer producing everything inhouse, with the number of markets they are present in and with the number of models they have just under the Seiko 5 lineup, you cannot really expect to run the company selling at prices similar to these Chinese brands, especially with the current costs.

You cannot deny the costs that can be saved by sourcing parts in bulk and just selling online without the middleman. Heritage brands just have more financial costs to consider. But if you are looking for watches under $500, there are many brands out there that offer better value than most heritage brands right now. It depends on you if the brand value matters.

I think the market has changed and so have collectors expectations. Their prices have also increased considerably and their quality hasn’t. I still think they’re cool, but they need to up their game to justify their new prices.

I love my srpg27 but did legitimately put a huge scratch on the crystal in the first 5 days of ownership. (I clipped the doorframe trying to enter a crowded restaurant.) That said there was an easy fix. I ordered an AR double domed sapphire for it. That sapphire crystal makes the dial POP in a way the factory crystal never did. It took a nice inexpensive watch and made it something special.

Every collection needs a Seiko. Youtubers need to talk about something, or more appropriately, get a life. Plenty of aftermarket straps/bracelets out there; check out Uncle Seiko - The Uncle will never do you wrong.

My favorite Seiko in my collection is the SGEH49P2. It has a wonderful accurate and reliable 7N42 quartz movement, a stunning black dial, sapphire, 100m WR and a good quality printed leather strap. It doesn't photograph particularly well, but if you look up YouTube photos of it and find the most flattering ones, which ARE quite flattering, it looks even better in person. All for $95.

Do you have a favorite Seiko in your collection? It seems like if a person has a lot of them, that's a tough choice.

You as well!

There are plenty more out there, for sure. My perspective is that if they don't fit what I'm looking for at a price I can afford, I'll go elsewhere. That's how the market works.

Mine came from a Seiko AD. But that is a story I have related previously. Once I sent it back and they regulated it, funny how regulation is the first thing mentioned under garuntee actions 😉, it runs fine. But why do I have to take the extra step Seiko? 😕

Seiko makes good stuff across the board. It’s hard to match prices with governmentally sponsored companies that are paid to buy market share.

SBDY039 is my favourite Seiko in my collection. 'The Green Turtle'. JDM model. Not limited edition as some people assume it is, but didn't have wide distribution.

So, they would regulate it if feasible? Then how are other manufacturers in the same price category are able to do it/a better job? I have a less than $200 Timex automatic than runs better than my $1400 Seiko. See why I question Seiko?

I do understand about qualified people but that is a problem for their Human Resources department. It has no bearing on me as a consumer.

Sounds like making excuses to me.

You should check orient they are around the same price but they have better quality control