Automatic Chronographs in Microbrands

You're not alone in your thoughts on this one, but I don't have any answers.

I wonder if it's a price point issue, i.e. micros have a harder time pricing up the chronograph to make the economics work.

Zelos just released the Vitesse and Baltic released its limited edition both of which are north of $1500.  I have to imagine they're not making out like bandits and I simultaneously know enough folks who would balk at a micro at that price (and it took two of the micros with the most established brands to do it).

You're probably correct here, and my thoughts were similar in that micros have more of an uphill battle to sell at high price points. Some may call it moving upmarket. However, it feels like a double standard. Why is it that for dive watches, they are great value, but the same watch quality with a chrono is not? I doubt that Zelos and Baltic have put less quality in their chronos than their dives. Do you think it's a price point and movement type that just doesn't have as much transparency so nobody has a good gauge on how much they are willing to pay?

I have seen a couple of automati chronographs from microbrands using the movement in the Sea Gull 1963.

And I think they did an excellent job with that watch! I'm a fan. May I ask which price points you speak of that most work at?

I suspect that it is based on price point. Unless I have an opportunity to handle the watch in person prior to purchasing, I'm personally very hesitant to spend more that $1K, especially from a micro brand that I don't have any previous exposure to.  I had been tempted by the Zelos Vitesse chrono at $1,500, but I didn't feel that the design was compelling enough to take the chance.  Your Jack Mason Avigator Multiscale is a much nicer design in my opinion, and if it were available with a decent mechanical movement in that same $1,500 price range, I'd be quite tempted, as long as it wasn't too thick. Chronographs are my favorite complication, and I have about a dozen in my collection. I much prefer mechanical movements over quartz, and am not a huge fan of the ST19 movement used in so many micro brand chrono offerings. I have one ST19 based chrono in my collection, and I recently ordered a Studio Underd0g as well, based purely on the design. I would have happily paid a premium for a better mechanical movement.

This was a great response. Spending $1k on anything without seeing it first is tough, I get it. Thanks for the kind words on the Avigator. That is a watch we get quite a few requests on with an automatic movement, especially with a Valjoux. It might be something we have to consider to test out!

If you do decide to come out with a Valjoux based Avigator, please let me know.  The more I see that watch, the more I like it. The big date is definitely part of the appeal - is that something that would be possible with a Valjoux movement?

Will do! The big date is my favorite part of the watch and is really the signature element of the whole piece. From my experience I have not seen a big date function on a Valjoux or any of their iterations, but I could be wrong. 

Unless your breaking into the high end markets you could never compete with the other micro's making cheaper VK63/64 mecaquartz watches. $20.00 movements for the win.

The brands make what they can sell.  Perhaps not enough people are after a chronograph especially since they are pricey. The busy dial of a chronograph is not everyone's cup of tea.  As my esteemed colleague mentioned Sea-Gull sells a ton of their ST19 movements dirt cheap to many of the brands competing in the lower priced watch market.

completely agree with this - i don't think there's been enough of a demand to justify it for many.

ETA almost exclusively catering to the Swatch group and their main customers doesn't make things easier too I guess. 

I find the LJP movement that Zelos uses in the Vitesse is really well constructed and keeps good time. Potentially some other microbrands may use this movement going forward, but they will still need to have a sufficiently sizeable fan base to sell these given the $1k+ price point.

That rotor design is really sharp. Thanks for sharing the photo! Yea I think the automatic chronograph in the microbrand space is just still a bit uncharted. Sounds like opportunity to me!

Yea I totally understand that anything over $1000 is still a lot of money, period. I definitely think there is lots of opportunity to explore this space to adjust the trends to include more chronos. I mean how many divers with a Miyota 9 series or Sellita 200 can one own?? That might be a silly question. 😜

Thanks. Yea, I mean to expect a good quality automatic chronograph to be in the same price range as an automatic 3 hand is just unrealistic. I think it may take several more punches from microbrands to take the leap into auto chronos to maybe stir up some interest. Orrr it could be total wasted effort haha

I 100% agree! Having said that, I'll "leak" a quartz chrono that we are developing at the moment. One of our most popular watches is the Aviagtor at 45mm with a big date Miyota chrono. We received a lot of requests for a 42mm, so this prototype houses a Ronda with a 2-eye layout. What do you think? 

It's easy to explain why microbrands cannot afford to make mechanical chronographs - it's the cost of the movement and the subsequent servicing and repairs. 

Unfortunately, the quality automatic or manual chronograph movements are very expensive as parts. I am excluding Seagull mechanical movements as these are inexpensive, but are generally of dubious quality and longevity - I do have several so I am not commenting without experience. Also, there are the "Russian" Poljot movements which are now also made in China from machines and plans sold to them by the Russians - Poljot caliber 3133. Same quality issues with the "Russian" chronograph movements.

This is why you find the microbrand world littered with mecaquartz models using the Seiko VK63/64 - you get the mechanical sweep of the chronograph hand like a mechanical movement and there usually is not a subdial showing the ticking of the quartz seconds hand. So it looks like a duck, but it's not a duck, and the cost of the movement is very inexpensive.

Nezumi is a microbrand out of Sweden that makes some very attractive mecaquartz chronographs, and just last year they released their first mechanical chronograph for their 10th Anniversary. With the decline in value of the Euro, you can now pick them up for only $1,300. Very attractive chronographs in a vintage style using the manual Sellita SW510 Mb.

Here is the link:

https://www.nezumistudios.com/product/voiture-ref-vm1s-601/

They indicated originally that these would be in a limited edition of 100 for each colorway. If that is the case, then they must be hard for them to sell since they are still available in all the colorways.

Here are the three models:

I went for the blue dial version myself: