And now the failure of Rolex is complete.
So, I've never really been interested in Rolex. I prefer the Seamaster over the Submariner, for instance. Add the fact that Rolex watches are always overpriced when comparing price and featuring versus Omega, as well as lack of availability, I never really thought the brand lived up to the hype.
Then they released the Palm motif DateJust. I figured, "Hey, this is just a dial variation of their most basic product. I like it. Maybe I'll look at buying one."
So I visited a couple of ADs, and experienced the standard Rolex Treatment.
Empty cases, check.
Snooty, condescending salesperson salesperson, check.
Plenty available at grey market scalpers at 2.5X MSRP, check.
I proceeded to build my collection with other brands, figuring perhaps one day I'd check again. The acquisition of Bucherer made me think buying the watch I was interested in might be possible.
So I just saw that Rolex has discontinued the watch . . . Before I even was able to see one in person at an AD! All I think of Rolex at thus point is what a total failure the brand is, at least in my experience.
Count me as yet another "Never Rolex" collector!
I don't really see Rolex as for the enthusiast anymore.It's more like trying to get accepted into an elite private club.
But I must say that in Asia you are treated better in the ADs than in the US or Europe. However, it's still the same waiting list of never .
I don't really see Rolex as for the enthusiast anymore.It's more like trying to get accepted into an elite private club.
But I must say that in Asia you are treated better in the ADs than in the US or Europe. However, it's still the same waiting list of never .
Agreed. All depends on the mood of that sales agent at that dealer on a given day. If you have a good relationship with the store (not brand) this is not really an issue.
I really only want the skydweller I think it's an amazing watch and the crown complications are really cool. I'll probably never own one but if I walk in and can buy an OP I would probably get it. But if I never get one that's OK too
After a 2.5 year wait, I’ve given up on the only Rolex I have any interest in. The Polar Explorer 2. Diverting that money elsewhere like the IWC I just purchased. Problem is, now I’m on an Omega wait list for the white dial speedy 😜
Sometimes you just can’t win 😉
I hear you on all points. I have to agree with a lot of folks that AT RRP, you can’t really beat a Rolex. Now, getting your hands on one is a different matter. After going grey to get (sorry) my Polar Exp II and subsequently flipping it to fund my lacquer Santos-Dumont, I do find myself missing the quality and construction and that sexy matte white dial. But what I have instead is something more limited, (subjectively) more beautiful, and something that has appreciated in value and should continue to do so, on top of being able to build a relationship with a local AD.
I’m hopeful with the Bucherer acquisition, we are only a few years away from Rolex having stock for people to walk in and buy. There are always going to be models that are for the elite, but hey, I kind of feel like everyone that has the means should be able to get an OP or sub whenever they want to.
Vintage Rolex is still the biggest enemy of modern Rolex, but there are some good deals to be had out there if you’re not hunting anything too exotic just yet.
Agreed. All depends on the mood of that sales agent at that dealer on a given day. If you have a good relationship with the store (not brand) this is not really an issue.
100 percent. I posted about this when I got my wife’s and my own Rolex. Happened to find the right sales associate and I got both in the same month.
For OP: Also you’re saying that you wanted one of the most popular and unique DateJust dials ever. That’s like saying you want a Speedmaster but it has to be the Snoopy anniversary.
Supply and Demand.
Is it this simple? Yes. Is it this frustrating? Of course.
The only way you can win is if (a) supply increases or (b) demand decreases. I don't see it swinging either way anytime soon...
Agreed. All depends on the mood of that sales agent at that dealer on a given day. If you have a good relationship with the store (not brand) this is not really an issue.
Agreed.
I'm still looking for that mythical AD that isn't pretentious, condescending, or blowing me off. YMMV.
I don't really see Rolex as for the enthusiast anymore.It's more like trying to get accepted into an elite private club.
But I must say that in Asia you are treated better in the ADs than in the US or Europe. However, it's still the same waiting list of never .
Yeah made the same experience. Went to a rolex/tudor shop in Manila and they were very friendly. And i was only wearing a tudor ranger. Then went opposite to an omega shop and they were less friendly compared to the vien a shop. Maybe depends on the people working there.
100 percent. I posted about this when I got my wife’s and my own Rolex. Happened to find the right sales associate and I got both in the same month.
For OP: Also you’re saying that you wanted one of the most popular and unique DateJust dials ever. That’s like saying you want a Speedmaster but it has to be the Snoopy anniversary.
The second piece I believe may be meant for another reply.
Agreed.
I'm still looking for that mythical AD that isn't pretentious, condescending, or blowing me off. YMMV.
Agreed, really depends on the SA and AD. I’m lucky to have a guy and he takes care of everyone I send his way. I have attempted to get service when traveling, if it is a popular city forget it. Each SA gets 100+ inquiries a day. Random me off the street isn’t getting squat in a major city.
To call the most successful watch brand in the world a failure is ludicrous. I don’t like Rolex and it sounds like you don’t either. That’s fine, but they are not a failure. They’re the complete opposite of a failure.
OP is probably the only person in the entire world that thinks they are a failure. How can one be the most successful watch company in the world and be a failure? It makes absolutely no sense. It’s fine to not like a brand, but c’mon man, nobody in their right mind thinks Rolex is a failure.
Tudor is where it’s at in my opinion it used to be the poor man’s Rolex and it still is to a point but I don’t look at it in that way. It more (old) Rolex without all the bullshit and lies great quality tool watches and now they the Matas movement. Even better value for money I do love omega but they are priced out for my range £6k plus
I don't have a passionate feeling about Rolex either way but I am curious what people think of "successful" new releases for Rolex. I mean, I get it if people are miffed that Rolex didn't resurrect the Milgauss and that they killed off a Yacht Master II if someone was trying to get it but.....Rolex isn't Haute Horlogerie. They don't make crazy complications, their complications are always now chronograph, dates, and GMT. I think the Air King is considered their "most daring" watch because of the ring date. There are only so many combinations of dial and bezel colors for the limited number of case materials. The fact they have a Guilloche dial for the 1908 is actually surprising to me.
The real issue with Rolex is that they have created Asshole Scarcity. Rolex makes an incredibly large amount of watches and have given implicit approval of ADs acting like assholes to people demanding they kiss the ring. That is their biggest issue. A good friend of mine that is not into watches wanted to gift himself a Rolex for getting a life changing promotion. We went to some AD in the Manhattan and we left not only empty handed, but with my friend's veins throbbing in his forehead. I told him afterwards to use that money to get an A.Lange & Sohne.
Since I kicked off this thread, I feel it only proper to answer the people that disagreed with me about my opinion that this is the point of Rolex failure in my experience.
I wrote:
“Then they released the Palm motif DateJust. I figured, "Hey, this is just a dial variation of their most basic product. I like it. Maybe I'll look at buying one."
So, I visited a couple of ADs, and experienced the standard Rolex Treatment.
Empty cases, check.
Snooty, condescending salesperson salesperson, check.
Plenty available at grey market scalpers at 2.5X MSRP, check.
I proceeded to build my collection with other brands, figuring perhaps one day I'd check again. The acquisition of Bucherer made me think buying the watch I was interested in might be possible.
So, I just saw that Rolex has discontinued the watch . . . Before I even was able to see one in person at an AD!"
Rolex did succeed in attracting a new prospective customer with the Palm motif release. I was authentically interested. 1 point for Rolex.
Next, the prospective customer’s experience:
No watches to even see, let alone purchase. 1 point against Rolex (because the customer can’t follow through on their interest to the next level).
Condescending salesperson. 1 point against Rolex (because this negative experience is how a customer will view the brand).
Easy availability on the grey market. 3 points against Rolex (because a. the legitimate customer was passed over for every one of those watches that went to the grey market, possibly with the AD’s knowledge and at extra profit for the AD, b. Rolex doesn’t want the grey market to have their watches, and c. the legitimate customer is left to feel that there is a game rigged against them).
The watch was discontinued before the prospective customer ever even saw the product. 2 points against Rolex (because a. the customer couldn’t buy the product, and b. the customer won’t bother to try the brand again because of the experience).
I never said Rolex didn’t make tons of money.
I never said Rolex isn’t the biggest watch brand in the world.
It is possible to succeed and fail – simultaneously.
Rolex is successful without my business, and I am quite sure they do not care one bit about losing me as a customer before they ever had me as a customer.
That attitude is why I say their failure is complete in my experience. I have shown, objectively I feel, that while they succeeded in attracting a potential new customer, they also squandered the opportunity.
The success of any business is dependent upon increasing the customer base. In actuality, success in the future is decided by the ability of a business to both maintain its customer base while adding new customers.
Don’t think so? I offer you Harley Davidson as a textbook example. It’s peak year by sales volume was 2006, in which they sold over 260,000 bikes in the US alone. They’ve been in a long slow decline since. The Harley web site only gives as far back as 2019, at which point they were down to 218,273. Last year, it was 162,771 and they lost market share everywhere except Latin America where they sold 1 more bike.
They are faced with a few very hard problems. Yes, the recession of 2007 hit them particularly hard. But other more important factors are even more important. First, their product is expensive compared to competitors at the same time their competitors offer better products feature for feature (which is exactly the Rolex / Omega situation if you take an honest look ad compare). Second, their existing customer base is aging out of riding. Third, they have failed to attract younger customers at the same time their competitors are doing so. I could go on, but I think these are the most relevant to the debate.
In the three years since the Palm motif was introduced, I bought at least 3 Omega watches and 2 Glashutte Original watches in the same time frame. The average sale price among the group was around what that Rolex would have cost. Five sales to competitors, none to Rolex. Now that the only watch I was interested in is discontinued, and I’m soured on the brand, why would I look at Rolex again? My collection had been completed. I finished what I decided upon and bought it all, finishing about a year ago. Now, if a Palm had somehow popped up at an AD at MSRP, sure I would have decided to open the collection. Instead, the new white dial Speedmaster has my attention now, and that’s the watch I’m buying next. The motivator is now the competitor, and Rolex isn’t considered.
If that isn’t failure, what is?
Here’s a couple of links in case anyone wants to look at the Harley data:
https://investor.harley-davidson.com/resources/motorcycle-retail-sales/default.aspx
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-rise-and-fall-of-harley-davidson-motorcycle-company-2020-2?op=1
Im sorry you’ve been treated poorly. That has not been my experience with Rolex.
There was a Hodinkee podcast where the president of Lange talked about the challenges of allocating high demand pieces.
Having purchased my first pieces directly from AP and Rolex in the past 2-3 years, I can assure you it happens all the time. You just need a little patience.
With all these precious metal releases, Rolex is trying get into VC, PP and AP league but just releasing more and more watches in precious metals with a higher price tag won’t get them there. Hope they realize this soon.
Im sorry you’ve been treated poorly. That has not been my experience with Rolex.
There was a Hodinkee podcast where the president of Lange talked about the challenges of allocating high demand pieces.
Having purchased my first pieces directly from AP and Rolex in the past 2-3 years, I can assure you it happens all the time. You just need a little patience.
I'm happy that you've had more positive experiences with the brand. It seems, like another Cruncher noted on this thread, that it's hit or miss when it comes to Rolex. Perhaps I'm just spoiled by my Omega AD. Perhaps I'm just not a Rolex guy. But it seems like Rolex, on the whole, isn't a game that appeals to me. All I have to judge the brand is pictures, prices and stats. I'm not into the status, flex, flipping, and all the rest. My net total experience with Rolex comes down to this: I was just a guy that saw a product they advertised and wanted to buy it - but in three years they as a company couldn't even put the product in front of me.
Honestly, how do people get excited at the new releases at W&W? To me, it's more watches we'll let you pictures of but won't sell to you. Like I said, maybe I'm just not wired to be a Rolex customer.
So, you have quoted me and presented this graphic. What are you trying to say in presenting the graphic?
So, you have quoted me and presented this graphic. What are you trying to say in presenting the graphic?
What do you think the graphic is telling you?
What do you think the graphic is telling you?
I asked because your point is not obvious. You posted it. So I asked.
I asked because your point is not obvious. You posted it. So I asked.
Again… what does the graphic show?
Rolex turnover, market share, etc… all in relation to its competitors for 2023. Is Rolex a success, or are they a failure? At ~30% market share, do you think they are adequately growing and maintaining their customer base?
Just curious - not trying to be funny, but they are way out in front.
Again… what does the graphic show?
Rolex turnover, market share, etc… all in relation to its competitors for 2023. Is Rolex a success, or are they a failure? At ~30% market share, do you think they are adequately growing and maintaining their customer base?
Just curious - not trying to be funny, but they are way out in front.
Rolex sold 1.05 million watches in 2022. Pretty impressive.
Apple sold 53.9 million watches in 2022. I think approximately 50 to one is significantly MORE impressive.
Millennials and younger are buying Apple watches while Rolex is unavailable. They are in that ecosystem and not mechanical watches. Mechanical watches by unit are a shrinking proportion of all watch sales.
Rolex sold 1.05 million watches in 2022. Pretty impressive.
Apple sold 53.9 million watches in 2022. I think approximately 50 to one is significantly MORE impressive.
Millennials and younger are buying Apple watches while Rolex is unavailable. They are in that ecosystem and not mechanical watches. Mechanical watches by unit are a shrinking proportion of all watch sales.
Okay. My point is that, like I wrote about with Harley, there's a generation gap on buying. Apple puts almost 50 watches on wrists for every Rolex that lands either on a wrist, or in the inventory of the grey market. All the more reason that alienating a mechanical watch buyer is a failure. Harley posted lots of profits on the way up also.
Agree with me, or not. But units sold ought to be considered more than gross sales number. Remember, Apple watch buyers are buying, with full and complete knowledge, that there is planned obsolescence at 4 years out. And they are repurchasing, thus propelling volume upward into the future.
Apple Watches are not the end of the watch industry and we have been saying that for years (article from 2020). The Swiss watch market is growing, even with the Apple Watch selling more units, because a smart watch and a watch are two separate products and can be bought in isolation, like a mountain bike and a car. Or a suit and a shirt so… yes, I disagree with you because the data disagrees with you:
Rolex dominates, and continues to dominate the watch market
Rolex is also amongst the top 5 Swiss brands for estimated units sold (for the Swiss market: Swatch > Tissot > Longines > Rolex). I don’t have Seiko, Citizen, or Casio numbers to hand, but they would also be substantial, and therefore within the top 10 globally annually is not unreasonable a suggestion.
The watch market, with the exception of 2020 (for obvious reasons) has continued to grow despite the popularity and rise of the smart watch
You can buy a watch at any age, and seemingly 18 to 39 are the most voracious consumers. According to the results of a recent survey conducted among affluent and high net worth individuals, over half of respondents aged 18 to 39 made multiple purchases of luxury watches over the past year to the third quarter of 2023 in Europe. Around four in 10 luxury shoppers aged above 40 made multiple purchases of luxury watches during the same period. Take it with a pinch of salt, because money, but watches are anyone’s game. Regardless of who buys the watches, the watches are being bought.
“Rolex has failed”
Apple Watches are not the end of the watch industry and we have been saying that for years (article from 2020). The Swiss watch market is growing, even with the Apple Watch selling more units, because a smart watch and a watch are two separate products and can be bought in isolation, like a mountain bike and a car. Or a suit and a shirt so… yes, I disagree with you because the data disagrees with you:
Rolex dominates, and continues to dominate the watch market
Rolex is also amongst the top 5 Swiss brands for estimated units sold (for the Swiss market: Swatch > Tissot > Longines > Rolex). I don’t have Seiko, Citizen, or Casio numbers to hand, but they would also be substantial, and therefore within the top 10 globally annually is not unreasonable a suggestion.
The watch market, with the exception of 2020 (for obvious reasons) has continued to grow despite the popularity and rise of the smart watch
You can buy a watch at any age, and seemingly 18 to 39 are the most voracious consumers. According to the results of a recent survey conducted among affluent and high net worth individuals, over half of respondents aged 18 to 39 made multiple purchases of luxury watches over the past year to the third quarter of 2023 in Europe. Around four in 10 luxury shoppers aged above 40 made multiple purchases of luxury watches during the same period. Take it with a pinch of salt, because money, but watches are anyone’s game. Regardless of who buys the watches, the watches are being bought.
“Rolex has failed”
Ok dude. Keep the faith.
The Rolex business model relies on their exclusivity. They've done this for an age now in the west limiting supply. While relying on selling bulk to the Chinese market. Their ADs in the west are like museums, the odd display only sports model and several DJ or Perpetuals. I spend my money at ADs like Omega or Brietling which have good customer service and you can try on and buy the piece you want that day. I'm too old to play the Rolex AD game now.
Rolex sold 1.05 million watches in 2022. Pretty impressive.
Apple sold 53.9 million watches in 2022. I think approximately 50 to one is significantly MORE impressive.
Millennials and younger are buying Apple watches while Rolex is unavailable. They are in that ecosystem and not mechanical watches. Mechanical watches by unit are a shrinking proportion of all watch sales.
The idea that Rolex is unavailable is simply not true. They actually give a bump up to first time buyers because they want to grow their customer base.
Their enemy would be in the world of flippers, who make the watch less available to prospective customers. Now they do need to be careful not to sell to flippers. This is why they cannot keep watches on display and why they seem to ask personal questions when you come in. Do you give off a flipper vibe?
I personally know at least a dozen people who have gotten Rolex at the 2 boutiques near me. And at the 3 nearest boutiques, I have gotten nothing but the best service. I'd only advise you give it another try at another boutique. Don't let a jerk or two put you off a product.
Now if you just don't like their watches, its not a problem. But based on the fact you are posting tells me somewhere down inside you do like them,
The idea that Rolex is unavailable is simply not true. They actually give a bump up to first time buyers because they want to grow their customer base.
Their enemy would be in the world of flippers, who make the watch less available to prospective customers. Now they do need to be careful not to sell to flippers. This is why they cannot keep watches on display and why they seem to ask personal questions when you come in. Do you give off a flipper vibe?
I personally know at least a dozen people who have gotten Rolex at the 2 boutiques near me. And at the 3 nearest boutiques, I have gotten nothing but the best service. I'd only advise you give it another try at another boutique. Don't let a jerk or two put you off a product.
Now if you just don't like their watches, its not a problem. But based on the fact you are posting tells me somewhere down inside you do like them,
I only wrote of my experience. YMMV. I found it weird, and ironic that the only model I had real interest in was discontinued before I'd even had a chance to see one, much less buy one. What I wrote was true, and was my experience with the brand. No apologies, no looking back at the brand for me.