Who makes a better GMT for under 5K LONGINES or Tudor?

Tudor has the much better movement, but Longines is better looking (strictly my opinion). If you are okay going down in price, but honestly similar quality to the Longines, I would (and did) buy the Monta Skyquest over both. If I did not already have other GMTs in various price brackets and have to pick, the Longines still gets my pick of the two.

I will look into that watch! I agree The looks alone I choose LONGINES and I love tutor. I’m also a big fan of numerals on the dial.

It is a cool watch and has its own style, and while I love a Pepsi, all are ultimately paying homage, which is not a bad thing.

C: Sinn U2 (but that is JIMHO)

Beautiful watch Sinn Has been on my radar for quite some time. Just haven’t picked the right one yet, really hard to find them to get them on the wrist first where I’m at.

Also check out the Sinn 857 UTC. Both this and the U2 are a lot more utilitarian-looking than the Longines or Tudor though, not so shiny.

I tried the Longines in a shop and didn't like how way the hour hand "shook" when the GMT hand moved while adjusting. The Kenisi movement inside the watch would be my determining factor. I had the Longines on my list but it is now quite a back burner watch.

I have heard about that shake / adjustment. I haven’t played with one yet.

It was, how shall I say, rather dissapointing. I do not recall the Bulova Wilton exhibiting the same characteristic when I looked at it when they first came out (wife convinced me to not pull the string then) but it has been a year so perhaps I remember wrong.

In any case, the price difference between the Bulova and the Longines is rather large. IMHO, what is acceptable at less the $1000 (US) is not so for an almost $3000 watch (including tax 😉).

I have nothing against the Tudor, in fact I really love that watch, but I would choose the Zulu time without hesitation. I really love the green & gold looks.

I think technically, the Tudor is better*. It’s nicer to operate and more robust. It’ll last longer.

However, aesthetically, the Tudor is quite a chunk, and there, the Longines probably wins out.

*assuming the date wheel issue was fixed

Tough call so I got both 😂

Tudor has the better T-Fit clasp, but Zulu Time has the quick release endlinks. Tudor is thicker but more legible than Longines. Tudor is more tool watch while Longines is a bit more dressy with its shiny bezel. So yeah 🤔

I like the Zulu Time better. The color way, the lines, works well together. 🧐

Both excellent choices!

Neither, it’s Glycine… they invented it after all 😉

How's the metallurgy differ and what hardware components are better? And how does that translate into an objectively better performing movement?

Doesn't the ETA arc. make it easier to service than the Kenissi movements - certainly more familiar to most third party watchmakers and with greater / less expensive parts availability.

I always find this an interesting conversation 'cause I think the depth of Tudors version of the Kenissi makes it a bit clumsy.

Well, I'm biased.

When talking metal, type of steel, quality of steel, hardness, etc. that is before what type of finishing do they use (rhodium in some cases example). In addition to that is the tolerances on all the pieces how they prepped etc. Let’s be honest, they are both using machines to do a good portion of the work, but my guess in looking at the videos of the various factories, completely speculative, the QC at Kenissi on both tools and process looks cleaner if you will.

As far as tech, spring materials. Shock observation, etc. All play into it. Throw in testing etc.

The last spot you are spot on. For many, they may prefer ETA for this exact reason. ETA (in theory) are easier to service and thus cheaper to maintain. That is a huge plus for a lot of folks. For others it’s the trade off for a technically better movement.

Car comparison. It’s like a Lexus vs BMW engine. We all want the reliability of a Toyota engine, but the performance of an M. Not quite apples to apples as I still bet the Kinessi is more reliable than BMW, but hopefully you see what I’m getting at. :-)

Tudor GMT’s are either huge or way too thick.

Can you please explain the question 🤔🤷‍♂️

They are both great!

Thanks. But I'm afraid that's all a bit vague.

I realise that there's a vast difference between alloys and that they can be plated many varied ways with varied materials.

Would you mind explaining specifically what metals are used by Kenissi that are not used by ETA and how / why that equates to an objectively better performing movement?

Same for spring materials, shock obs, QC and testing.

Re. your last point. I'm afraid I don't understand what you are getting at. Obviously I understand that car engines, like watch movements, can be made to varying qualitve standards but the concept of performance doesn't correlate. I would've thought the reliability of a Toyota is 𝘦𝘹𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 what we expect from the type of watch movement in question (fit for purpose, bullet proof, long lasting, hard wearing) whilst the type of performance at a range RPMs (or beat rates) requiring more tuning and maintenance to retain optimum output (M Series) is exactly what we 𝘥𝘰𝘯'𝘵 want from watches we're discussing.

Or am I wrong?

In terms of metals, Rolex/Tudor famously source and developed their own alloys. While I am not a metallurgist, it is a fair assumption their standard for the quality of alloys used will be different than an ETA. IE the same reason many companies pay a premium for German produced steel than say China.

Then throw in the quality of the tools and maintenance of the machinery that manufacturers said metals. I know there are unknown assumptions built in there, but watch or take a factory tour of either and tell me which you think produces to a higher standard.

In terms of other tech differences for example (again, plenty of sites dedicated to movements of each you can research on your own) it’s silicon hairspring technology, full balance bridge and free-sprung Microstella balance wheel. Thats not including the finishing of all the plates. One could argue if it is worth the costs associated with that tech, but that isn’t the question. There is objectively a different level of technology on many critical parts.

To the car analogy; I know I can buy a Lexus and be completely happy. They are awesome cars. But, if I prefer the top end power of a BMW engine and its ability to eat miles at high RPMs with a different level of interior refinement, I know my maintenance will cost more. The analogous part is, you are paying for a different level of technology both up front and over life of ownership. Again, it isn’t quite the same with watches as there is no reason to believe a Kinessi movement will die any sooner than an ETA, but yeah, it will cost more.

Most of my watches are ETA, but that doesn’t mean I think they are as good as (going in order of my completely subjective movement ranking) they are as refined or developed as Tudor, Omega, Rolex, or GO.

All that is to say, that upgraded tech and production quality is worth a premium, to many. Someone else may not care about the difference and want the tried and true easy to service, cool. I get it, you like Longines, as one should they are killing it, but let’s not mistake ETA for anything more than they are; extremely mass produced tried and true basic movements, with varying grades of refinement, but they are not trying be Kinessi, Omega, etc.

Longines. For now…

Again - 𝘈 𝘭𝘰𝘵 of words but it's all very vague.

Again, If you please wouldn't mind explaining specifically what metals are used by Kenissi that are not used by ETA and how / why that equates to an objectively better performing movement?

Same for spring materials, shock obs, QC and testing.

There is objectively a different level of technology on many critical parts.

How specifically does this technology differ from ETA and how does it make Senissi movements performance superior?

...it’s silicon hairspring technology, full balance bridge and free-sprung Microstella balance wheel.

How specifically does this technology differ from ETA and how does it make Senissi movements performance superior? How is a Microstellar balance wheel superior? Why is Tudors Silicone balance better than Longines silicone balance - specifically?

Doesn't have to be a long, wordy post - bullet points are fine and It's OK if you don't know - you can just say that, but your 𝘐𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘢𝘭 post interested me and it'd be great to know what info/facts you based that opinion on - if you have any?

Thanks again

☻

Sorry if the use of specific links, a well documented history of Rolex metal and alloy development isn’t enough.

I do my best to engage in good faith, but at this point you are being pedantic and having a self fulfilling circular discussion (that I am bowing out of before muting you) because you feel there can be no (mis)perceived slight on anything Longines related. Looking at your history, it seems to be a pattern and I should have known better. Good day.

OK, no sweat - the links provided and the history of Rolex metal and alloy development doesn't answer that specific question.

Simply asking you for some for facts.

Thanks anyway.

With Longines you have different options. Tudor not so much.

For me, #tudor makes the better movement but for my taste taking into consideration price, case proportions and movement reliability I would choose the #longines

why "much" better? Both are pretty damn similar from what I can gather.

See note above as it relates to movement.