If Brands Didn't Exist

If brands did not exist, we would not have such a wide choice of watches available. Making a watch required significant investment and very few individuals would make them and they would be significantly more expensive. So, I think, there would be very few people who could afford this hobby. It would be like 16th or 17th century, where only rich had watches.

That is exactly how I buy my watches now, so no-no effect whatsoever.

That would be quite interesting. There’s a lot of factors that are part of my purchase decisions. Brand and brand history are a part of that, followed by movement, specifications and aesthetics.

If there were no brands, I’m imagining everything as a milspec sterile watch, focused on specifications and performance. In that case I’d only be shopping based on movement and aesthetics.

If brands don’t exist, that technically means that there’s no intellectual property regarding watch design, so many companies could make a version of the Royal Oak for instance. Shoppers would pick the one that most suits their needs, regarding specifications.

It’s an interesting scenario.

Surely this is what happens now. Watches such as the Nautilus are homaged, so if you removed the names from the dials, you would just be buying based on quality and finish. Amazingly the difference is quite minimal in many cases

I am pretty much the same, albeit there are some really poor names that I just can't live with

Rolex wouldn't exist, let alone have a "waitlist". I will not utter a word regarding Tudor...

The individual watch is in the foreground for me, and the brand is secondary. But there are definitely brands I had positive experiences with. A brand determines how they do business. Then there are brands who have a marketing strategy that doesn't align with what I'm looking for. Let's leave it at that.

Would love to say that brands don't exist, but they are still the ones selling you a watch.

Yes, but how would it effect your hobby?

I would have to do a lot more research for each purchase, as components used, prices, availability and service / warranties would vary more strongly.

But that still wouldn't answer the question of who would actually sell me a watch if not a brand.

It wouldn't be a hobby, because without different brands there'd be a handful of generic designs that would be ubiquitous.

Isn‘t this the situation with Aliexpress brands where in truth, brands do not exist? I think it would reduce a filter and it would be all about quality, technique and look only. Since I am collecting brands with tradition and less micro brands, this would be a nightmare for me :)

I don't buy brands but I don't buy specs lists either. First I buy design and most of the time certain brands have the designs I like with a good quality.

I would not like a world where watches would be commodities.

So you would have a generic ETA clone movement fitted three-hander, steel case, simple brushed finish, fabric strap and basic cardboard box for € 500, an extra € 300 for COSC certificate, + € 100 for a date window, +€ 500 for a chronograph complication, + € 200 for improved finishing, + € 300 for a three link steel bracelet, + € 150 for a power reserve indication, ..... ?

Sounds like pre 1989 East Germany. Not my cup of tea.

Let brands compete and let buyers decide what counts for them : specs, history, military affiliations, appetite for innovation, coloured dials, ....

I think I'd still end up with a Rolex Explorer on the basis of the design, proportions and bombproof movement.

Most people in this community don’t buy based on the brand. I also don’t own a Speedmaster because it’s not essential to everyone’s collection. 🤯

I own a Rolex and a couple of San Martins, and I actually agree. Of course, there is a big difference when it comes to movement though

That’s in interesting point on the movement. How much better is the Rolex movement over the SW200? One is a chronometer however you can get that in the SW200 I think

We are getting there now except instead of no brands it is one brand Apple and only is brave few crunchers are keeping everything else alive 😂

Expensive brands would lose

If brands did not exist, an enthusiast would still choose one product over another. Perhaps he or she might be more open minded less dogmatic about where their dollars go but there is always going to be a pecking order.

I don't agree with that. I love mechanical watches because I am always amazed by how a combination of springs and cogs can supply such accurate time. The name on the dial doesn't change that

You're thinking logically, and it isn't a logical question

I have a top grade Sellita/ETA in my Tudor BB36, as well as Elabore grade Sellitas in several other watches, and they are indeed excellent movements. The in house 3230 movement in my Rolex is outstanding though, only gaining 1 second in three days. I have put the Rolex on my timegrapher, and there is no difference in the rate regardless of positional variance. That said, it could be argued that spending so much more on a watch that is fractionally more accurate makes little sense. If brands didn't exist I expect few people would ever pay 50 times more for Rolex type quality over San Martin quality.

I kind of suspect there would be fewer enthusiasts, as brand is so important to many of them. We all know there are many types of collector

I discover that fact every day. My ad could show me an Omega summer blue 75th anniversary PO watch that is being reserved for a wealthy collector. I actually find the size to be off proportion wanted to know the opinion of the other fella who has already agreed to buy the watch sight unseen. I am informed that the Omega collector will arrive one day to purchase as many as 50 watches for his private collection, none will be worn or sold.

I think it goes a little deeper than that. I mod/build my own watches from parts, and I know I can fix them if something happens.

If you buy a watch you are also always buying the brand, the trust that parts & service will be available in the future, and that someone didn't sell you a watch with a junk movement. You are buying something in good faith based on the brand.

That’s my thoughts. I didn’t opt to put a SW200 into one of my San Marin watches purely on the basis that I don’t have visibility of the supply chain and journey between the SW200 and San Martin so I opted for the PT5000 which is an ETA clone. So far so good and it’s out performing all of my other Swiss based movements apart from my Rolex (but it’s not that far off!). Edit: I actually bought a couple of San Martins out of curiosity as I wanted to see side by side exactly what was going on. I have to say I was stunned at the quality, I chose the below watch as I was wanting to pick up a Rolex Yacht Master Ti and wanted to live with a similar watch to see if it worked for me. Interesting I still want the YM but I’m wearing the San Martin in a way that I would never wear the YM. I.e. as a tool

Rolex movements are indeed constructed slightly differently, from a Breguet overcoil, a silicon hairspring, and the regulation though set screws on the balance wheel. All of this needs to be executed well.

It's not about getting a new movement down to chronometer specs, but that it continues to stay that way over time and in different positions. (I could say the same about an Omega coaxial escapement or a GS Spring Drive.)

Sure, a standard movement is easier to maintain, but even a 2824 variant is fairly basic.

Absolutely, that said Rolex of old…not that good,it’s only in the modern era since they ramped up on automation that their quality and QC has improved but as you said still relatively basic with zero finishing

Right, but if no brands existed, I don’t think these companies would make mechanical movements