Location of assembly

Not really, but that's assuming the QC and regulation is on par.

The buying factor for me personally is the sum of its parts. If the build quality & looks are there, it doesn’t matter if it was built by hand or machine.

As long as QC, build and spec expectations are met I don't care.

Quality is the name of the game. I don't care if man or machine makes my watch. I just want the watch to look and perform as advertised.

It’s a global market. We’re buying Chinese brands with Swiss and Japanese movements. We’re buying English brands assembled in Switzerland or with Swiss parts. We’re buying American watches assembled with Swiss, Japanese and Chinese parts.

Where all these parts come together is kinda irrelevant.

I don't care where it's made. I care that it's well made.

Not really, tho I'm fairly patriotic so would like some British watches in my collection in the future, but I'm not really into microbrands.

It depends... If the company makes the watches in their home country, I don't care. If the company outsources manufacturing to another country, I'm far less inclined to buy it, and would only do so if there were no other options. For example, Seiko makes some models in both Japan and elsewhere (e.g., China). If I have the option between buying the Japanese-made version of that watch over the outsourced version, that's what I'm going to do, even if it costs a little more.

Watch quality is quality. Lots of watches from Seiko Japan and Swiss that China, France, and Italy didn’t have a problem. Effort and care, not geography.

I think its a nice touch I like supporting watch making as a trade but i wouldnt expect it at a lower price point.

Look… you’re going to want to build it as cheap as possible, even if you take a different stance on who you use, you need the product to be economically viable for yourself to generate a profit and desirable at the right price for us morons otherwise you don’t have a business. I think if you use a Miyota or Seiko automatic movement at a certain price point, maybe you adjust the movement, you can’t sell the watch for too much, and regardless what that price is, the QC has to be on point. Does having a watch made locally actually see your customers willing to pay a premium - they might say so but if they don’t back that up in purchases, then clearly they are just paying lip-service. Many watches have always been assembled from parts, and there are various tiers of parts and assembly, so I suppose the question is how much you as a brand are willing to compromise and maintain integrity?

My take on this may be different than the average persons and my decisions are not really swayed by folks outside the industry.

I disagree with building things as cheap as possible, especially here. I don’t do it and there are many good reasons not to. Another thing you learn when running a business is nobody cares as much as you do, so if you want a certain quality, sometimes you have to do it yourself.

I’ve assembled hundreds of my own watches and have had hundreds assembled at the factory as well. There are compromises to both - it’s interesting to see the answers here as a few years ago I feel people strongly preferred someone assembling themselves vs technicians. You’re right that there’s a lot of lip service, my personal take is that there isn’t too much magic in assembly and a competent assembly team is better than an individual watchmaker. I don’t think the trade off of having one individual slog through hundreds of orders, thusly increasing wait times to months or years, is a worthwhile trade off (and most customers would agree).

Personally, I have experienced incompetence and poor work from assembly houses and watchmakers alike. My personal approach is to use a hybrid system where I can have full control over my higher priced pieces and special editions and let assembly teams tackle the lower priced models. A formal training in watchmaking lets me QC with a more scrutinizing eye than an untrained eye and I do find myself revising a lot of watches I think most brands would ignore and many people wouldn’t notice.

Which, I’m not perfect but it does reduce warranty incidents which is a time and cost saver in and of itself. I find the race to the bottom with some watch brands disheartening, a high volume low margin business models inevitably drives the brand to produce watches and parts that aren’t even worth maintaining or repairing, just replacing. I heard a wonderful quote about not being the cheapest and it was something like, “there is lots of room at the top” meaning people rarely want to put in the extra effort. At the end of the day though, there’s only so much scrutinizing a price point can bear, especially if I’m unable to reasonably price it into the watch.

Like I said, compromise. Your system works for you and allows you create a product that you are happy about to sell. I’ve read your website, I know your stance on external manufacture, but at the same time you also want to make profit on every unit you sell, you are business. I understand why you do certain things, but is profit such a dirty word?

It’s not, and I’ve had to, for my own sanity, recheck my stance on how much time I spend with each watch. I do feel people are blinded by profit though and it’s often the chase for profit, and not value, that starts the unfurling of a business. See it everywhere, a brand offers a great product or service that has value, it gets popular, margins are slashed to increase profits and the value drops with it. It’s a popular mindset in the “entrepreneur” groups, the “how do I make money” but it’s the wrong perspective, the question should be “how do I create something of value?”

If money is always the main focus, then the product will never shine. Balance and compromise are important but I think if you also have something intrinsically unique that’s coming through in the brand, you can’t sacrifice that without significant risk or losing some of the value that drew people to you in the first place. To me, it’s apparent when a brand is trying to “just sell a product” versus “cares about what they’re doing” and at the end of the day it’s all business, but I like supporting the people who give a shit.

I put Orion in the same paddock as Weiss. I'm willing to pay more because I know that a personally invested watchmaker has taken the time to get things 'right' with the little things like lubrication, regulation, et al. In my logical mind, I understand that the big movement manufacture houses' machines, techs, methods and protocols may result in a well put together device, But I really value the fact that you and Cameron have 1.an honest passion about the product you put out there, and 2. have the experience to make sure that your product is something that you are proud of when you ship it out the door. Also I know that my money is going to support a person vs a shareholder.

100% Yes. Wrist watches are not necessary. I'm not a captive buyer, and since I have the ability to choose where my money is spent, I prefer to support the people and companies that I like. This applies tenfold the more money I'm spending, but even at lower price points, I'm mindful of where my money is going and who it is supporting.

I don't care if my watch is assembled by a certifiably special subspecies of endangered Swiss mountain elves in a room clean enough to perform brain surgery in or by a hobbyist in his garage. What matters is how it runs and works.

I agree, and I appreciate the discussion. Passion is great, but you do need to get paid. It’s the same in any industry, the race to the bottom is real.

You know, I tried out a Swiss assembly house(for some of my Calamities) who touted doing work for some big reputable brands and they either damaged or assembled incorrectly each one. I ended up having to redo every single one and lost a lot of time and $ from even trying them. Results are more important than reputation/stigma. It’s embarrassing when vaunted Swiss companies cannot follow instructions or manage to damage every dial or bridge component. Now, no place has a perfect track record but I’ve never even had Chinese factories(who generally do a good job) blunder as badly as the Swiss or manage to damage so many watches.

Experiences like these are why I end up doing a lot myself.

I can believe that. I find it extremely hard to find qualified individuals who will do work on my watches. I have had "authorised" staff and technicians butcher the lugs, pins or screw heads while adjusting bracelets or more than one occasion. You'd figure they know how to do that and have the tools... nope, I should send them your tweezer video I guess. Eventually I acquired all the tools and started practicing and I know how to do it myself without any damage because they just don't seem to care.

The award probably goes to Omega's flagship Boutique in Germany which has just let me know a few days ago that their Service Centre "bleached" my 20yo original Seamaster bezel with aggressive chemicals which I specially instructed them to leave alone (!). It's black on white on the service instructions, because it had no scratches and a lovely light blue color which I liked, talk about following instructions. Can't replace that, a new one doesn't look nearly the same and aged ones are beaten up. And the arrogance, the person who took in my watch told me not to be so paranoid and even wrote my instructions in all capital letters to mock me. That will be a fun conversation upon pick up in a few weeks time.

Wow… that sucks, I can’t really imagine the steps that resulted in bleaching a bezel?? From a brand service center no less… there are many solvents that don’t bleach or damage bezels and fewer that do…. It’s weird to think any of that is actually in their SOP. Very frustrating to tell someone to specifically not do something then have them do it. I’ve gotten to the point of stating (what I think) is very obvious stuff to people because of how many times seemingly common sense things just get ignored.

It’s not uncommon for people to stop caring about the things and just churning stuff out as fast as possible.