My thoughts on homages; and is this SM really a GADA?!
With SM’s SN021 in hand, there isn’t much I can say to fault it. I’ve not spent a great amount of time in the presence of a true ‘luxury watch’, but the time I have spent hasn’t been enough to discern any differences in case finishing or material quality. So what are luxury watch enthusiasts paying for? The movement, obviously; and, if you happen to own a loupe, then I guess you’ll be able to pick up those case finishing details I can’t. Then there’s the big one: design. Right? Well actually, this is where I begin to struggle. You see, nothing about the SN021 is original, but then neither is there anything particularly original about a BlackBay36. And this is precisely why San Martin are free to copy them. Certain designs are now so old as to be in the public domain. And while these luxury brands occasionally make small tweaks, they aren’t enough to refresh design protection.
This all seems fair enough to me. Society would become stagnant if everything original belonged indefinitely to one person or company. You may argue that all this is well and good, but at least Tudor came up with the design originally. But following this line of thought leads to a confusing place. I mean, does the chap who penned the original Explorer still work at Rolex? No. Okay, but what about the company ethos, culture and know-how that’s passed down to each successive generation of employees? Fair enough, but when it comes to external design, that ethos and culture seems to be churning out the same old stuff and, as it’s the same old stuff, it’s nothing our antihero homage buddies can’t replicate with a photocopier.
This brings me back to the pictured watch and why I bought it. It’s bloody good, offering a lovely case, 100m WR and accurate time keeping for Seiko money. This is the jumping off point for a watch worth considering, but to see a purchase though it needs to fit a current obsession. That current obsession is retro, GADA watches. In other words, the Rolex Explorer (I know, so original). The problem is I don’t have grail watch money. I have Seiko money. So, the San Martin it is.
Am I disappointed? Initially, no. Having the watch in hand reveals it not to be a 1-2-1 copy of anything. The case has the soft curves of the Oyster Perpetual, the dial is undoubtedly BlackBay and the bezel is a bit more refined (imo) than either. Digging a little deeper reveals other good design choices from San Martin. This watch is actually a little thinner than the latest Explorer and almost 3mm longer lug to lug. This gives the watch a very flat wrist presence and an elegance that I think the latest Explorer lacks, being a little stubby by comparison.
I’m well aware that I’m now going to have to take cover for my sins. But don’t let me lead you to thinking this is any lifelong Explorer substitute. Of course it’s not. It’s a nice watch with an interesting movement at a great price, but I still want that richly lacquered dial, white gold indices and the 3230 movement.
There’s another problem too with the San Martin, and it’s one of snobbery. You see when wearing it with formal attire or around people in the know, I become a bit self conscious. The other day at the AD the salesperson clocked it:
‘oh I see you have the blackbay’ ‘uh, no it’s actually a Chinese knock off’.
Cringe.
The thing about formal attire is that it is a uniform you wear to fit in, to show you belong. The San Martin doesn’t check that box in certain settings, meaning it’s not really a GADA at all.
So there you have it. On the one hand I think this is a great watch, one that San Martin are entitled to produce and should be proud of. On the other, there’s a bit of me that thinks, because of snobbery, this can’t really qualify as a GADA watch and can only ever be a bit of fun.
Anyway enough mad rambling from me. If you have anything to say on the matter, let me know below.
Welcome to my WatchCrunch profile.
Homages are one thing, but you should see how snobs react to Seiko Mods that emulate their favourite Rolex or Patek.
Great post. Great watch. Wearing a sports watch with formal attire is entirely a personal choice. Since formal attire has an elastic meaning these days, it's hard to knock wearing one with business casual attire or a suit (depending on the setting).
Feeling embarrassed about wearing a San Martin -- that is entirely in your control. In other words, that is more of a "you" issue. Tell the AD to piss off.
Nothing wrong with san martin at all, thats a fine looking watch. There is always anything for everyone in thia hobby right
Great post. Great watch. Wearing a sports watch with formal attire is entirely a personal choice. Since formal attire has an elastic meaning these days, it's hard to knock wearing one with business casual attire or a suit (depending on the setting).
Feeling embarrassed about wearing a San Martin -- that is entirely in your control. In other words, that is more of a "you" issue. Tell the AD to piss off.
To be fair to the AD, after learning its Chinese origins, he didn’t say anything else about the watch. It is entirely in my head. Anyway, he was too busy checking my Seiko in to have its woeful 6r35 regulated. Meanwhile the SM was ticking away at the usual steady -1spd, oblivious to any slights, perceived or otherwise.
They don’t like it, it’s their problem.
Conversation starter at the least.
To be fair to the AD, after learning its Chinese origins, he didn’t say anything else about the watch. It is entirely in my head. Anyway, he was too busy checking my Seiko in to have its woeful 6r35 regulated. Meanwhile the SM was ticking away at the usual steady -1spd, oblivious to any slights, perceived or otherwise.
Those poor 6R35’s… haven’t been hearing great things about them lately… sorry you’re having trouble with yours as well.
Another thing you’re paying for is the ability to service it and all the parts and even refinish it many years down the road. Yes it cost money but it’s nice to have them do that professionally
Those poor 6R35’s… haven’t been hearing great things about them lately… sorry you’re having trouble with yours as well.
I don’t mind them. Great power reserve and, unlike the cheaper swatch group movements, you can at least get them regulated. I’ve heard of others that will keep time just fine, so I’m holding out hope we’ll see an improvement on -30spd.
They're perfectly fine for the price, can't expect everyone to spend so much money for something so tertiary
I wear a C63 sealander in green from Christopher Ward as my daily quite a lot. I’ve had multiple people tell me it looks like a Rolex oyster perpetual. A few of those people are really into watches and we got into some nice conversations about watches afterwards. While I’m sure the snobs are out there life’s too short to worry about what the snobs think. Wear what you like. Most people, even other watch nerds won’t care. With the obscene direction watch pricing is going for luxury watches no shame in not wanting to spend 8 grand or 3 etc, for the “real thing” imo.
Another thing you’re paying for is the ability to service it and all the parts and even refinish it many years down the road. Yes it cost money but it’s nice to have them do that professionally
You can do that with any watch it's only the amount it costs would prevent you. And it's easier and cheaper to swap out a NH movement after 10 years than service it.
I have to Google Gada, as I always forget
I never had a problem with wearing my "absolutely not Explorer" SN021-G. I think that it's a perfectly usable watch that offers great legibility and its PT5000 movement is actually more reliable than my Seiko's 6R.
Yes, it kinda looks like a Rolex Explorer but very few people, if any, pay attention to what I'm wearing and for those who do, well for them any watch looks like a Rolex because it's the only watch brand that they know.
You can do that with any watch it's only the amount it costs would prevent you. And it's easier and cheaper to swap out a NH movement after 10 years than service it.
Do you mean re-polish it and buff out knicks on a mirror finish by a third party or myself?
It is really a Gada
This is what I really like about Christopher Ward. They do tend to cost 2-3x more than a San Martin but also 5-6x less than a Rolex. They have that classic oyster base look but add some touches that really make it their own. They also have more complex case, indices, and hand finishing than the OP, though I suspect it would fall short under a loupe.
That being said, I actually think San Martin is one of the most interesting brands today simply because of what they can produce for the money and how controversial they can be to some. People that don't take them seriously are just dumb.
I never had a problem with wearing my "absolutely not Explorer" SN021-G. I think that it's a perfectly usable watch that offers great legibility and its PT5000 movement is actually more reliable than my Seiko's 6R.
Yes, it kinda looks like a Rolex Explorer but very few people, if any, pay attention to what I'm wearing and for those who do, well for them any watch looks like a Rolex because it's the only watch brand that they know.
I actually think the 3-6-9 dial variant gets an easier ride as it doesn’t look so much like a current offering from a luxury brand.
I do like the case refinements of the G-B3 though. I think I’d like to see the G-B4 make a return to lume filled 3-6-9 indices, perhaps applied to a more interesting and unique dial. They seems to be experimenting aventurine, which could work well.
I never had a problem with wearing my "absolutely not Explorer" SN021-G. I think that it's a perfectly usable watch that offers great legibility and its PT5000 movement is actually more reliable than my Seiko's 6R.
Yes, it kinda looks like a Rolex Explorer but very few people, if any, pay attention to what I'm wearing and for those who do, well for them any watch looks like a Rolex because it's the only watch brand that they know.
I’m also a fellow fan of the PT5000. They should definitely make more use of it in their other ranges.
I was going to wear mine today! The movement in mine (PT5000) is the weak spot, and there are a couple of other minor "sticky" points in the bracelet and clasp of mine that show a lack of refinement compared to other more expensive watches/brands. The full on blatant design infringement does bother me a bit, so I have avoided buying any new homages since picking up my SM SN021. I also own a Pagani Daytona homage and the value packed Steeldive Willard homage too. I suppose my Christopher Ward The Twelve is also technically a homage that should be included on that list... Okay, so that was my most recent homage purchase then... Nevermind, carry-on 😎
Do you mean re-polish it and buff out knicks on a mirror finish by a third party or myself?
Can't comment on what you can do yourself but any 316 SS watch can be buffed up to whatever standard you're willing to pay for.
This is what I really like about Christopher Ward. They do tend to cost 2-3x more than a San Martin but also 5-6x less than a Rolex. They have that classic oyster base look but add some touches that really make it their own. They also have more complex case, indices, and hand finishing than the OP, though I suspect it would fall short under a loupe.
That being said, I actually think San Martin is one of the most interesting brands today simply because of what they can produce for the money and how controversial they can be to some. People that don't take them seriously are just dumb.
I’m becoming more convinced a CW will be my next watch. Probably the C65
I was going to wear mine today! The movement in mine (PT5000) is the weak spot, and there are a couple of other minor "sticky" points in the bracelet and clasp of mine that show a lack of refinement compared to other more expensive watches/brands. The full on blatant design infringement does bother me a bit, so I have avoided buying any new homages since picking up my SM SN021. I also own a Pagani Daytona homage and the value packed Steeldive Willard homage too. I suppose my Christopher Ward The Twelve is also technically a homage that should be included on that list... Okay, so that was my most recent homage purchase then... Nevermind, carry-on 😎
What issues have you had with the pt5000?
What issues have you had with the pt5000?
For me, the crown is a bit too small and unscrew/screw down and winding is quite gritty. Pulling the crown out to set the time is also quite stiff and clunky. So far it runs okay, but I worry about the longevity of it.
For me, the crown is a bit too small and unscrew/screw down and winding is quite gritty. Pulling the crown out to set the time is also quite stiff and clunky. So far it runs okay, but I worry about the longevity of it.
Yup they are pretty gritty. I haven’t got an SW200 for comparison, but apparently they are quite similar. The winding is a known weak spot on all ETA2824 clones and I wouldn’t recommend winding more than necessary to get it going. Let the rotor do its work.
Gary had a very interesting video about finishing on different brands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaxZK4DyEHQ
Gary had a very interesting video about finishing on different brands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaxZK4DyEHQ
Saw this. Was amazed by the results