New tool (toy?) - Weishi No. 1000

The biggest concern with the reading for the Seiko is not that the watch is fast, I would expect it to be, since with a 200 degree amplitude the issue is likely that the watch isn't fully wound.

If the watch is fully wound and has an amplitude of 200 degrees, then we have other issues that should be unexpected.

For me a timegrapher is a tool to let me know if the changes that I made are correct, or if something is wrong. In most cases it doesn't tell me what is wrong, but gives me an indication to take a closer look. If you don't regulate your own watches you certainly don't need it. A cell phone app will be sufficient.

I'm wanting to buy the exact same timegrapher for months now😂. Maybe this month? How much did you pay?

Beautiful Seiko!

Where did you buy this one?

Thank you! It’s a SPB213J1

I think it was sold at a not-so-limited production of 6000 units in 2021 but it’s still available on Chrono24 and such. My local dealer (and part time job) had one left in stock that i bought this winter

It is fully wound but it still hovers around 196-230 degrees. And the time hovers from +58 to +80

Maybe I should send it back to Seiko…

My plan is to start regulate my own watches. I have a watchmaker colleague that will teach me 🙂 I would not trust an app for that

The biggest concern with the reading for the Seiko is not that the watch is fast, I would expect it to be, since with a 200 degree amplitude the issue is likely that the watch isn't fully wound.

If the watch is fully wound and has an amplitude of 200 degrees, then we have other issues that should be unexpected.

For me a timegrapher is a tool to let me know if the changes that I made are correct, or if something is wrong. In most cases it doesn't tell me what is wrong, but gives me an indication to take a closer look. If you don't regulate your own watches you certainly don't need it. A cell phone app will be sufficient.

Cell phone app for regulating?

Cell phone app for regulating?

I actually brought in one of my Seikos back to the AD for a warranty repair because it was a minute too slow and out of spec for my watch. I can’t handle a watch that slow. Their in-house watchmaker said that the amplitude was too weak for a simple regulation. They sent it back to Seiko. You’ll be missing your watch for awhile but at least they’ll fix it for you without extra charge. Definitely it looks like the amplitude on your watch is much lower than average but your watch is a lot faster than the promised Seiko spec.

Yeah, I guess I’ll have to the same. Feels like it’s a common issue with the 6R-movements

Sure, a timegrapher is a microphone, or a set of microphones, that detected the sounds coming from the escapement of the watch. These are then compared against reference frequencies based on the assumed or detected beat rate of the watch. The deviations from the reference are then graphed on the display over time.

With the most common timegraphers, such as the Weishi, a rising line over time will show a watch that is too fast, and dropping line shows one that is too slow. This is also shown in numerical form (seconds per day +/- spd) If the line is showing as two lines, a beat error (ms) is detected, the larger the further the lines are apart. The amplitude (degrees) is also shown in numerical form. The beat rate (bph) is a feature of the watch and cannot be changed. The lift angle can be configured on the timegrapher, is a parameter of the movement, and is usually around 52 or 53 degrees. It describes the angle that an impact stone on the balance will be in contact with the pallet fork during the balance rotation.

The seconds per day are easy to explain, they are the time gained or lost by the watch per day. Most people regulate their watches to run slightly fast. The watch I'm wearing today is around 4 seconds fast. spd can be adjusted by a lever on the balance cock, with exceptions of course.

The spd is not independent of the beat error. The balance swings in two directions, and the beat error is the difference in milliseconds between the two directions. It is essentially a measurement of how well the balance is aligned with the pallet fork. This value should be zero, or close to it. Adjusting it will generally change the spd values.

The amplitude is a measurement of how far the balance swings. This will vary strongly between movements. The Seiko 4Rxx series generally are around 260 to 280 degrees, the ETA 2824 variants are often over 300 degrees. It is necessary to know what is normal for the movement. There are a number of reasons for the amplitude to be low. They are:

• The watch isn't fully wound. One of the easiest mistakes to make.

• The watch is magnetized. This effectively shortens the mainspring, and less energy reaches the escapement wheel.

• The watch needs service due to friction in the movement, or the mainspring being cruddy.

Also a low amplitude often means the watch is running fast, as the balance doesn't travel as far. The amplitude cannot be adjusted through regulation, and describes the current condition of the watch.

This is it in a nutshell. These values make more sense once you looked at different watches in different conditions.

If you want to know more, I would recommend the chronoglide channel on YouTube. Kalle's talk on beat error alone takes up 25 minutes. 😉

Sure, a timegrapher is a microphone, or a set of microphones, that detected the sounds coming from the escapement of the watch. These are then compared against reference frequencies based on the assumed or detected beat rate of the watch. The deviations from the reference are then graphed on the display over time.

With the most common timegraphers, such as the Weishi, a rising line over time will show a watch that is too fast, and dropping line shows one that is too slow. This is also shown in numerical form (seconds per day +/- spd) If the line is showing as two lines, a beat error (ms) is detected, the larger the further the lines are apart. The amplitude (degrees) is also shown in numerical form. The beat rate (bph) is a feature of the watch and cannot be changed. The lift angle can be configured on the timegrapher, is a parameter of the movement, and is usually around 52 or 53 degrees. It describes the angle that an impact stone on the balance will be in contact with the pallet fork during the balance rotation.

The seconds per day are easy to explain, they are the time gained or lost by the watch per day. Most people regulate their watches to run slightly fast. The watch I'm wearing today is around 4 seconds fast. spd can be adjusted by a lever on the balance cock, with exceptions of course.

The spd is not independent of the beat error. The balance swings in two directions, and the beat error is the difference in milliseconds between the two directions. It is essentially a measurement of how well the balance is aligned with the pallet fork. This value should be zero, or close to it. Adjusting it will generally change the spd values.

The amplitude is a measurement of how far the balance swings. This will vary strongly between movements. The Seiko 4Rxx series generally are around 260 to 280 degrees, the ETA 2824 variants are often over 300 degrees. It is necessary to know what is normal for the movement. There are a number of reasons for the amplitude to be low. They are:

• The watch isn't fully wound. One of the easiest mistakes to make.

• The watch is magnetized. This effectively shortens the mainspring, and less energy reaches the escapement wheel.

• The watch needs service due to friction in the movement, or the mainspring being cruddy.

Also a low amplitude often means the watch is running fast, as the balance doesn't travel as far. The amplitude cannot be adjusted through regulation, and describes the current condition of the watch.

This is it in a nutshell. These values make more sense once you looked at different watches in different conditions.

If you want to know more, I would recommend the chronoglide channel on YouTube. Kalle's talk on beat error alone takes up 25 minutes. 😉

This is a very good explanation as far as that can exist in a post that short. I second the reference to the Chronoglide channel. I recently discovered it and it is good. Kalle even responds to comments!

I wish WatchCrunch had a corner where it stashed info like this for those interested. A bit like QC'd articles on Wikipedia and such. But watch specific topics. That sort of info seems to be dying out and is replaced with wristshots, hot takes, tier lists and marketing news.

How do you regulate it ?

To be honest, a time grapher will really do nothing for you unless you plan to fully service watches, complete service. A timegrapher is just one tool in a Watchmakers shop that can either tell you a watch is running fine, or give you clues to what is wrong with it so that you can fix it. I'm my experience a timegrapher has never simply indicated that a watch needs a simple regulation ie pushing a lever near the balance wheel one way or the other ie. Regulator pins. So I really hope that you are learning how to fully service watch movements in combination with using the timegrapher, demagnetizer, ultrasonic cleaners, a dryer, chemical solutions for cleaning, oiling, jewel press, etc... on newer watches sub 20 years old you may not need things like jewel presses but everything else for sure.

What promoted my comment, use of the word "toy". Because that's all it is unless you service watches. Welcome to the watch making journey. I advise going through this YouTube channel for some of the basic information but this video is a great place to start to understand your time grapher.

https://youtu.be/x1XPx9uIzRM?si=nBaggx4BzWv9sIRV