What Matters More? Swiss Made or American Assembly
I saw some people go back and forth in a different forum… so I’m interested to hear the thoughts from the Crunchers.
On one hand, I’m interested in investing more into American watchmaking, but on the other hand, it’s hard to ignore the experience and craftsmanship of the Swiss.
What's your take on the topic?
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Gary
Hello all! I'm new to collecting, but I've been interested in watches for quite some time... Never too late!
Texas
Member since
Last active: 2 days ago
6.50” / 16.51 cm
Unless the "Swiss Made" and "Made in USA" labels mean 90%+ of the work that went into the watch was done in the respective countries, it kind of doesn't matter.
The economy is so global at this point, even if it says "Swiss made" most of the parts are made somewhere else and the watches are just assembled in Switzerland or the USA.
In my mind, those terms are mostly marketing fluff now.
I suppose, as you live in the USA, assembly would be a factor for you. Living in Iceland, I look at the local industry as well (yes, we have one!) Strictly from a non-Swiss, non-US perspective, I’d vote C. 😉
Unless the "Swiss Made" and "Made in USA" labels mean 90%+ of the work that went into the watch was done in the respective countries, it kind of doesn't matter.
The economy is so global at this point, even if it says "Swiss made" most of the parts are made somewhere else and the watches are just assembled in Switzerland or the USA.
In my mind, those terms are mostly marketing fluff now.
Fair enough, that's an interesting point. So there doesn't seem to be a benefit to either direction in your eyes?
I suppose, as you live in the USA, assembly would be a factor for you. Living in Iceland, I look at the local industry as well (yes, we have one!) Strictly from a non-Swiss, non-US perspective, I’d vote C. 😉
I'll count it as a vote for C! The idea of supporting local does come into play for myself and others, but I'm interested to see which outweighs the other. Just made me think about my own collection a little bit as I think it is an interesting topic.
As a consumer, I can't help but let these options be a factor in my decision making. In fact, I enjoy that they are because knowing that my watch is either US assembled or Swiss made gives me assurance in quality. The watches that I have owned that fall into either category have been so good to me.
Now, how do I choose one or the other? I think the heritage of Swiss craftsmanship wins by a hair. Lots of factors go into this sentiment, but I think in short, the connotations that come with 'Swiss' just feels more expensive. So I am just a mere consumer haha
"Swiss Made" has a slightly negative taste to me, as it is easy to game the standard. That being said, I know many great Swiss watch makers, but those rely primarily on their brand recognition, and not on that label.
"American Assembly" is an equally fluffy standard. It also wouldn't matter much unless I knew exactly what it meant. Is somebody just casing the movement, are they assembling a movement from foreign parts?
Again, it would be the brand, and its transparency around the manufacturing process, that counts.
Made in America is a far cry from American assembly.
A watch can be assembled in America from 100% foreign parts.
Made in America indicates a % of the components are made in America.
As a consumer, I can't help but let these options be a factor in my decision making. In fact, I enjoy that they are because knowing that my watch is either US assembled or Swiss made gives me assurance in quality. The watches that I have owned that fall into either category have been so good to me.
Now, how do I choose one or the other? I think the heritage of Swiss craftsmanship wins by a hair. Lots of factors go into this sentiment, but I think in short, the connotations that come with 'Swiss' just feels more expensive. So I am just a mere consumer haha
Makes sense to me. No wrong answers, just curious to pick people's brains a little bit haha. You make a very valid point... It's hard to deny that the phrase "swiss made" carries a certain weight to it in a lot of people's minds.
"Swiss Made" has a slightly negative taste to me, as it is easy to game the standard. That being said, I know many great Swiss watch makers, but those rely primarily on their brand recognition, and not on that label.
"American Assembly" is an equally fluffy standard. It also wouldn't matter much unless I knew exactly what it meant. Is somebody just casing the movement, are they assembling a movement from foreign parts?
Again, it would be the brand, and its transparency around the manufacturing process, that counts.
I definitely respect that stance. It's always important to do your research and find what matters most to you.
Made in America is a far cry from American assembly.
A watch can be assembled in America from 100% foreign parts.
Made in America indicates a % of the components are made in America.
Agreed. I'm more curious as to the general sentiment of american assembly, as that is definitely more prominent than usa made. In my opinion, Made in America is still a reach away, but I think there's potential to get to that point if the general public invests more in the "assembled in america" idea. More awareness and interest seems like a good thing.
Unless the "Swiss Made" and "Made in USA" labels mean 90%+ of the work that went into the watch was done in the respective countries, it kind of doesn't matter.
The economy is so global at this point, even if it says "Swiss made" most of the parts are made somewhere else and the watches are just assembled in Switzerland or the USA.
In my mind, those terms are mostly marketing fluff now.
"Made in the USA" is different that what the OP asked about. He asked about "Assembled in the USA"
Per the US FTC:
[quote]
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin. Traditionally, the Commission has required that a product advertised as Made in USA be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. After a comprehensive review of Made in USA and other U.S. origin claims in product advertising and labeling, the Commission announced in December 1997 that it would retain the "all or virtually all" standard.
[/quote]
There are only 2 companies that I can think of that can put "Made in the USA" on their watches. One is a pretty expensive watch that I can't think of their name. The other is Weiss Watch Co. Cameron Weiss makes/has made "virtually" all parts for for his watches with his 2130 movement. I believe the report is that like 3 pieces of the movement are imported. He also makes most of the parts in house with very little being farmed out to other machine shops.
Assembled in the US means exactly what is says. But there are still some differences in my book. Where did the parts come from? Was the movement assembled in the US with imported parts? Was the movement imported as a whole and cased up in the US? A lot of this matters, at least to me.
I will be buying one of Cameron's watches, hopefully later this year. But I'm also looking at watches using the Americhron movement. These movements are assembled in the US with imported parts. The companies using this movement are US based companies. The companies using this movement have their watches assembled in the US. I am very excited to support US Assembled, especially if it's from one of these companies.
The Swiss Made thing is a complete joke, 50% for a movement to qualify and 60% for a complete watch. While I have bought a couple of watches with the Swiss Made imprint, that wasn't the reason I bought them. I would much rather buy a watch made with a Miyota 9 series over the current Swiss clone movements of a not all that impressive 40+ year old design.
"Made in the USA" is different that what the OP asked about. He asked about "Assembled in the USA"
Per the US FTC:
[quote]
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin. Traditionally, the Commission has required that a product advertised as Made in USA be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. After a comprehensive review of Made in USA and other U.S. origin claims in product advertising and labeling, the Commission announced in December 1997 that it would retain the "all or virtually all" standard.
[/quote]
There are only 2 companies that I can think of that can put "Made in the USA" on their watches. One is a pretty expensive watch that I can't think of their name. The other is Weiss Watch Co. Cameron Weiss makes/has made "virtually" all parts for for his watches with his 2130 movement. I believe the report is that like 3 pieces of the movement are imported. He also makes most of the parts in house with very little being farmed out to other machine shops.
Assembled in the US means exactly what is says. But there are still some differences in my book. Where did the parts come from? Was the movement assembled in the US with imported parts? Was the movement imported as a whole and cased up in the US? A lot of this matters, at least to me.
I will be buying one of Cameron's watches, hopefully later this year. But I'm also looking at watches using the Americhron movement. These movements are assembled in the US with imported parts. The companies using this movement are US based companies. The companies using this movement have their watches assembled in the US. I am very excited to support US Assembled, especially if it's from one of these companies.
The Swiss Made thing is a complete joke, 50% for a movement to qualify and 60% for a complete watch. While I have bought a couple of watches with the Swiss Made imprint, that wasn't the reason I bought them. I would much rather buy a watch made with a Miyota 9 series over the current Swiss clone movements of a not all that impressive 40+ year old design.
Thanks for the help with the clarification. As you say, I'm interested in hearing about the general opinion on "assembled in america" vs "swiss made" topic.
Your input here is definitely something that I have been thinking about. If I'm not misreading your comment, there's actually a negative connotation that accompanies the phrase swiss made in your eyes because it reflects being stagnant and not innovative?
Fair enough, that's an interesting point. So there doesn't seem to be a benefit to either direction in your eyes?
With the way the global economy is now structured, no, neither option really carries a great deal of weight to me anymore.
Even IF both options meant 90%+ of the work that went into a watch was done in the respective country, that still doesn't mean the item is quality. You can still have shit products made in those countries by dodgy companies.
All of what I said being true, if I judged two watches to be of similar aesthetics, quality & price, being a US citizen, I would likely lean to the "Assembled in the USA" piece.
Now THAT being said, there are so many watches out there with different aesthetics, quality & price points, that it's almost impossible to think the entire determining factor between them would be which was "Swiss Made" & which was "Assembled in the USA".
"Made in the USA" is different that what the OP asked about. He asked about "Assembled in the USA"
Per the US FTC:
[quote]
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin. Traditionally, the Commission has required that a product advertised as Made in USA be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. After a comprehensive review of Made in USA and other U.S. origin claims in product advertising and labeling, the Commission announced in December 1997 that it would retain the "all or virtually all" standard.
[/quote]
There are only 2 companies that I can think of that can put "Made in the USA" on their watches. One is a pretty expensive watch that I can't think of their name. The other is Weiss Watch Co. Cameron Weiss makes/has made "virtually" all parts for for his watches with his 2130 movement. I believe the report is that like 3 pieces of the movement are imported. He also makes most of the parts in house with very little being farmed out to other machine shops.
Assembled in the US means exactly what is says. But there are still some differences in my book. Where did the parts come from? Was the movement assembled in the US with imported parts? Was the movement imported as a whole and cased up in the US? A lot of this matters, at least to me.
I will be buying one of Cameron's watches, hopefully later this year. But I'm also looking at watches using the Americhron movement. These movements are assembled in the US with imported parts. The companies using this movement are US based companies. The companies using this movement have their watches assembled in the US. I am very excited to support US Assembled, especially if it's from one of these companies.
The Swiss Made thing is a complete joke, 50% for a movement to qualify and 60% for a complete watch. While I have bought a couple of watches with the Swiss Made imprint, that wasn't the reason I bought them. I would much rather buy a watch made with a Miyota 9 series over the current Swiss clone movements of a not all that impressive 40+ year old design.
Thanks. I'll be looking in getting a piece from Weiss. Other than RGM, i have limited knowledge of American watch companies.
Both
As others have noted, Weiss and RGM are it AFAIK.
I'll give a nod to some micros trying to actually do everything but the manufacture of parts in house, in the US.
Orion, Nodus, Sangin, Resco, Winfield, etc come to mind.
I can appreciate the efforts! That's not lost on me
As an American, buying at watch that's 'Made in the USA' is not really a priority to me hut I respect those that value that in a timepiece
I don’t really mind where a watch is assembled. What catches me is design, color, comfort and value for my money.
Valid and understandable 👏
Both. Shinola might be the brand for you. They use Swiss made movements that are assembled in the U.S.
American Made is still a pretty far reach I think. But I'm moreso interested on thoughts about Assembled in USA
I see! I guess if we're comparing apples-to-apples to ask if there's an advantage to a watch being assembled in the USA vs assembled in Switzerland, I'd say I'd prefer USA because it still feels more honest for the reasons mentioned and that the ultimate quality of a product is determined by the priorities and techniques of the company, not its location. Cameron Weiss builds his watches to the same high standard in Nashville as he did when he was based in Los Angeles, and it's fair to say he would continue to do so if he moved his operation to India. It's not unlike how Hondas built in Ohio are of the same quality as Hondas built in Japan—quality has nothing to do with country of origin, but the standards and practices the manufacturing is held to. And since we know the Swiss Industry has no fixed quality standard and allows a massive amount of assembly and parts-sourcing to be done outside of Switzerland, I don't assume Swiss-branded watches to be of any inherent quality level as a result. Given that, why not buy the American-assembled equivalent IF (big "if" since, realistically, the options are so limited) you find the watch otherwise just as appealing as something offered for the same price coming from Switzerland?
What's your opinion on JS Watch Co.? I want to buy one but I want to wait until I revisit Iceland next year and buy my watch in person at their Reykjavik boutique
If you’re coming to Iceland anyway, definitely pick it up in person. You may want to chat with them through their website beforehand if you want them to do any customizing for you.
Gilbert senior is great. He is super knowledgeable and can fix anything you throw at him. His son Sigurður I don’t know personally, although he’s also prominently part of the business, but I’m friends with grandson Gilbert, who just recently graduated from the Swiss watchmaking academy and is following in his family’s footsteps.
I trust them with all my watches and have one of their J&S watches on my wishlist.
If you decide to purchase one, I think you’ll find it a very unique, personable, amusing, amazing and quaint experience. In the best possible way. #jswatchco
The definition of "Swiss Made" is loose enough as to be nearly meaningless. The definition of "American Made" is tight enough to be functionally impossible with the current model of global trade. Arguing about either is like what a cow says; it's "moo". #iykyk #thanksjoeytribiani
I see! I guess if we're comparing apples-to-apples to ask if there's an advantage to a watch being assembled in the USA vs assembled in Switzerland, I'd say I'd prefer USA because it still feels more honest for the reasons mentioned and that the ultimate quality of a product is determined by the priorities and techniques of the company, not its location. Cameron Weiss builds his watches to the same high standard in Nashville as he did when he was based in Los Angeles, and it's fair to say he would continue to do so if he moved his operation to India. It's not unlike how Hondas built in Ohio are of the same quality as Hondas built in Japan—quality has nothing to do with country of origin, but the standards and practices the manufacturing is held to. And since we know the Swiss Industry has no fixed quality standard and allows a massive amount of assembly and parts-sourcing to be done outside of Switzerland, I don't assume Swiss-branded watches to be of any inherent quality level as a result. Given that, why not buy the American-assembled equivalent IF (big "if" since, realistically, the options are so limited) you find the watch otherwise just as appealing as something offered for the same price coming from Switzerland?
That's a great point, thanks for the thoughtful comment!
The definition of "Swiss Made" is loose enough as to be nearly meaningless. The definition of "American Made" is tight enough to be functionally impossible with the current model of global trade. Arguing about either is like what a cow says; it's "moo". #iykyk #thanksjoeytribiani
American made is definitely out of reach for now, but I am talking about the idea of american assembly in my post, which is much more possible depending on your definitions of what it takes to be considered "assembled"
Unless the "Swiss Made" and "Made in USA" labels mean 90%+ of the work that went into the watch was done in the respective countries, it kind of doesn't matter.
The economy is so global at this point, even if it says "Swiss made" most of the parts are made somewhere else and the watches are just assembled in Switzerland or the USA.
In my mind, those terms are mostly marketing fluff now.
Agree 100%. Said it before, I'm region agnostic when it comes to watches. Made in the U.S. is cool, however value for dollar is first and foremost in my mind.
American made is definitely out of reach for now, but I am talking about the idea of american assembly in my post, which is much more possible depending on your definitions of what it takes to be considered "assembled"
Agreed.
I've been starting to get more behind the US Assembled stuff folks like Vaer are doing, especially for the AmeriQuartz stuff (although not completely sure what that is 😂)
Lol, Swiss.
Two hugely different things. Swiss made is to a specific standard. American assembled means nothing that I’m aware off. If it was Swiss v American made then there is a comparison however assembled can mean a load of Chinese parts get shipped, might as well get the Chinese to do the whole job and call it American imported and QC and charge less.
Not forgotten! To be honest, I was simply trying to keep the poll simple and focused to avoid decision paralysis haha
Which ultimately leads to a skewed "decision" if you ask me. Or not the best/better available option, in my opinion (and I'm talking "affordable", here)