Tyrannical Taxation on a watch
What does King George III of England and the customer service advisor for Christopher Ward have in common?
If you said “they both don’t realize that Americans hate taxes and being told what to do by the British,” you would be correct.
I got to see a sample of the Christopher Ward C1 Moonglow on the second day of the Chicago Wind Up Watch Fair. I really liked the piece. I discussed the price and purchase with the very nice sales reps from Christopher Ward. They had no watches to sell at the show but offered a show discount and free shipping if I ordered one on their website. I had difficulty with the security on my credit card so they emailed a link to me so I could complete the order. When I reviewed the information it included 10% Chicago sales tax. Since I was ordering it online I didn’t really feel I should be paying more sales tax to Chicago. They taxed my hotel and all my food and drink during my visit. So I ordered when I got home to NJ and I bought it through my business where I would offer it for resale and therefore not have to pay New Jersey’s 6 5/8% sales tax.
The next thing I know I get a $125.00 bill from DHL for duty. When I check my credit card statement I notice that the show discount was not applied either. I reached out by email to Christopher Ward and the customer service advisor got back to me and said that she spoke to her colleagues in sales and will refund the price of duty and the show discount to my card which they did. As far as my request for tax exemption she said they would not consider it because the watches are not to be resold. Now I know nothing of the laws in England but in the US when you buy something it is yours to do with as you please. I chose to put it up for sale and I supplied a tax document relieving the seller of responsibility to collect tax on behalf of the state of NJ.
I guess where I am going with this saga is just a word of caution when buying a watch from outside the country. Different countries have different laws, taxes, duties, etc. and not all watch sellers know the ins and outs of every location they sell to. I just hope I don’t need to throw a crate of Christopher Ward watches into Boston Harbor in order to let them know I won’t pay tax and the revolt has begun.
My name is Rich and I am building a collection of unique complications. I know it sounds more like the way you start a watch museum and not a personal collection. So far I have a Tourbillion, Retrogra...
The benighted peoples of the old world cannot stand up on their own two legs for freedom and liberty. They have lived under the jackboot of tyranny for millennia and know not that life can be other than groveling and debasement.
Scorn them not. They are victims.
Perhaps it is your destiny to lead them out of darkness.
Americans are an ornery bunch. Ornery folks from all over the world move here to taste the sweet, sweet, fruit of...our ability to tell the government to f*** off.
I just assume when ordering overseas I will get hit with taxes and consider myself lucky when I do not (which is most of the time). Only upside is the pound has tanked and there are some good deals to be had playing the exchange rate until sellers begin to adjust.
Here wrist watches are exempted from custom duties but I still have to pay VAT on the total purchase value, meaning that it's levied on the total amount of money paid to get it into the country which will include the purchase price and the shipping and clearing fees.
The harbor part is hilarious 😂
I'm happy to pay my taxes in most cases. And the VAT on important protects local buisness and workers 😊
Isn’t import duty a tax levied by the destination country on importing foreign goods? Nothing like a bit of nationalistic nonsense about something unrelated that happened 250 years ago, though.
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/kbyg/customs-duty-info
Paying duty on watches, first world problems :)
I like that they even have an easy FAQ for this topic.
Really love the post. Hilarious! I also agree with the hate for excess taxes to purchase a watch from different countries. I had heard different YouTubers discuss this issue from time to time, but now you've put a real face on the taxation insanity.
When CW told you the watch was not to be resold so you can't claim the tax back, this is probably because you are a consumer & not a business selling watches. In the UK if you are a business who has bought watches to resell them you can claim the VAT (sales tax) back after you have bought them. It does not mean you can't sell the watch, just that you are not tax exempt.
Really love the post. Hilarious! I also agree with the hate for excess taxes to purchase a watch from different countries. I had heard different YouTubers discuss this issue from time to time, but now you've put a real face on the taxation insanity.
the taxation serves the community It is a way to redistributing the money correctly. As a french citizen I'm not surprise by the amount of taxes on watches. I understand that for American people it can be unusual to pay taxes but it is for the good cause.
the taxation serves the community It is a way to redistributing the money correctly. As a french citizen I'm not surprise by the amount of taxes on watches. I understand that for American people it can be unusual to pay taxes but it is for the good cause.
bonjour Robinwatch. Mon propos n'est pas d'engager des débats politique sur ce site dont ce n'est pas la vocation, mais écrire"the taxation serves the community It is a way to redistributing the money correctly" est au mieux naïf.
Well, when we French collectors buy on-line watches from US retailers (Longisland, for ex.), we have to pay import duties through FEDEX to have the box delivered. Not fun either
Just the way it is. If you import anything valued over $800 into the US, you will be charged import duties. If you buy something produced in a foreign country in the US, whoever imported it had to pay duties, and that is reflected in the price presumably. I don't think anybody likes it, but to complain about it is about as useful as trying to empty the ocean with a spoon.
the taxation serves the community It is a way to redistributing the money correctly. As a french citizen I'm not surprise by the amount of taxes on watches. I understand that for American people it can be unusual to pay taxes but it is for the good cause.
You obviously don't live in NJ in the USA where my government leaders piss away tax money to illegal aliens in exchange for votes while needy citizens are overlooked. Almost none of my tax money is spent on good causes.
Just the way it is. If you import anything valued over $800 into the US, you will be charged import duties. If you buy something produced in a foreign country in the US, whoever imported it had to pay duties, and that is reflected in the price presumably. I don't think anybody likes it, but to complain about it is about as useful as trying to empty the ocean with a spoon.
I am not complaining about paying the tax. I am disputing paying the tax and I have been made good for the taxes I paid by my credit card company. I also find emptying the ocean with a spoon is very therapeutic.
In NJ dead people vote as well as anyone else since they stopped checking identifications and offered mail in ballots to everyone. Perhaps I have become a product of my environment. You still don't have to get personal on WatchCrunch. You are free to ignore my posts
Please do.
You obviously don't live in NJ in the USA where my government leaders piss away tax money to illegal aliens in exchange for votes while needy citizens are overlooked. Almost none of my tax money is spent on good causes.
No offense meant but that is an utterly absurd statement.
It's all relative of course.
I already vented about our tax burden here in Canada in your other thread, but for those that missed it - any watch I import here to BC gets 17% for starters, then the shipping company adds 2.5% for a brokerage fee, to bring import fee to approx 20%. 😢😒
I'm interested in Formex though - they state on their website price includes all shipping AND duty AND brokerage fees... wonder if it purely adds it all on the price, or if I get a better price by having them add it at their end?
Having one price to see it arrive at my door is some how much more palatable than seeing the price I think I'm paying, than suffering the extra grand of fees when it arrives!!
When CW told you the watch was not to be resold so you can't claim the tax back, this is probably because you are a consumer & not a business selling watches. In the UK if you are a business who has bought watches to resell them you can claim the VAT (sales tax) back after you have bought them. It does not mean you can't sell the watch, just that you are not tax exempt.
So therefore the government in the UK gets to tax the same watch twice.
No offense meant but that is an utterly absurd statement.
How so?
How so?
To begin with the comment that "government leaders piss away tax money to illegal aliens in exchange for votes" ignores the fact that "illegal aliens" are not eligible to register to vote in New Jersey or anywere else in the United States. And before you claim that corrupt officials ignore the law be prepared to back up such a claim with real evidence.
I used to have to show identification or my voter ID card but now I can vote by mail. Hundreds of people called the local radio station to say they received mail in ballets for people who no longer live at their address or deceased people. Not everyone does what they are suppose to and people are returning those ballets filled and signed(Yes, Fraud). The governor has declared NJ as a sanctuary state and has a program to pay for college tuition for non US citizens attending school here. They have instructed police organizations to refuse to assist INS. I have plenty of evidence without even going outside the news media. Maybe where you live the government is more responsible but not from the news I have heard.
The bottom line is that as a business owner in NJ, I am legally exempt from paying taxes on anything I resell. I am required to collect sales tax when I sell the item, which I do and send quarterly payments. My whole point is that CW is trying to do the right thing by collecting sales tax that NJ says they should collect but they do not understand that there are exemptions to the law and they haven't read and understood the documentation written by NJ Dept. of taxation which I have sent to them. My point is that WatchCrunchers need to know what they should be paying and don't just assume that the seller knows your local laws and charges you properly.
So therefore the government in the UK gets to tax the same watch twice.
Effectively no as the reseller business can claim the VAT back from the government if they have been charged it. Only the end consumer has to pay the VAT
Effectively no as the reseller business can claim the VAT back from the government if they have been charged it. Only the end consumer has to pay the VAT
Okay, very similar to the way sales tax works here except it is not collected and refunded. Thanks for helping me understand.
I used to have to show identification or my voter ID card but now I can vote by mail. Hundreds of people called the local radio station to say they received mail in ballets for people who no longer live at their address or deceased people. Not everyone does what they are suppose to and people are returning those ballets filled and signed(Yes, Fraud). The governor has declared NJ as a sanctuary state and has a program to pay for college tuition for non US citizens attending school here. They have instructed police organizations to refuse to assist INS. I have plenty of evidence without even going outside the news media. Maybe where you live the government is more responsible but not from the news I have heard.
The bottom line is that as a business owner in NJ, I am legally exempt from paying taxes on anything I resell. I am required to collect sales tax when I sell the item, which I do and send quarterly payments. My whole point is that CW is trying to do the right thing by collecting sales tax that NJ says they should collect but they do not understand that there are exemptions to the law and they haven't read and understood the documentation written by NJ Dept. of taxation which I have sent to them. My point is that WatchCrunchers need to know what they should be paying and don't just assume that the seller knows your local laws and charges you properly.
I live in Washington State where our elections, each and every one, has been conducted entirely by mail for nearly two decades. In all that time a total of less than 200 votes out of millions cast have been fraudulent. Those figures aren't based on "people who called the local radio station." They're based on real evidence of votes cast.
As far as your specific complaints you seem to be upset that CW insists on treating you as a retail customer subject to the usual sales tax obligations rather than as a reseller or wholesaler of their products. But what you're missing is that CW's entire business model has been built on direct retail sales, eliminating the "middle man.' That "middle man" role is what your want to assume and to benefit from. But that's not a role that CW wants to support or promote.
I live in Washington State where our elections, each and every one, has been conducted entirely by mail for nearly two decades. In all that time a total of less than 200 votes out of millions cast have been fraudulent. Those figures aren't based on "people who called the local radio station." They're based on real evidence of votes cast.
As far as your specific complaints you seem to be upset that CW insists on treating you as a retail customer subject to the usual sales tax obligations rather than as a reseller or wholesaler of their products. But what you're missing is that CW's entire business model has been built on direct retail sales, eliminating the "middle man.' That "middle man" role is what your want to assume and to benefit from. But that's not a role that CW wants to support or promote.
I paid Christopher Ward's retail price. I did not pay wholesale like I do on most of the goods I sell therefore their profit margin should not be hurt by my choosing to resell the watch. CW chose to do business in NJ so they are subject to the NJ sales tax code. When they received the ST-3 document from me, they should have read it and realized that it relieves them of collecting tax from me and that is where the story should have ended. The charged me tax which they should not have and therefore I made this post to warn the WatchCrunch community that foreign sellers may not understand your local tax laws and mischarge you.
The parts about me not wanting to pay more tax than necessary to my government so I can watch them redistribute my wealth in a manor I disagree with are my opinions.
As far as I can tell CW simply followed their longstanding business model, to sell their products to end users rather than resellers. If you were purchasing the watch for your own use (as CW presumers) even you admit you would owe NJ sales tax as part of your purchase price. The fact that you might in the future elect to re-sell a watch you've purchased isn't CW's business. And by the same token they do not owe you a discount on the watch you purchased.
It's a shame that you object to how New Jersey distributes tax revenue. However, such revenue is a collective good. Don't like those decisions? Move somewhere more in line with your political inclinations. I suspect New Jersey won't miss you.