The Homage Watch- Enthusiast Friend or Foe?
You've seen them everywhere and you know exactly what we're talking about: the homage watch.
Few topics can really polarize the watch community more than the homage watch.
I own the San Martin Vintage Diver in Coral Blue. We all know what it is, a near clone of a Rolex Explorer 1016. Does that make it bad? For me, the answer is not at all. It wears exceptionally well and the bracelet is actually one of the best I've come across in this price range. The dial is the "Tiffany Blue" inspired hue of blue that was all the rage in the early 2020s. The movement is automatic and keeps accurate time. The case is 39mm and shows quite impressive finishing as well. Overall it is a solid watch and I am glad is in my collection.
So, what's wrong with it? Well, nothing to be honest. It exist as a much more affordable and obtainable alternative to a now legendary and near unobtainable timepiece. It is not fake nor a replica and stands as its own piece. If you view these types of pieces in this way then objectively it's a good buy.
The problem with these pieces stems from the grey zone of taking design characteristics from other models and rebranding them as your own. If you copied a paper at university then you'd be expelled for plagiarism. It's a similar concept and mentality here.
But the reality is that in some way, most watches that exist now take design features and characteristics from other watches be it from the creator's own catalog or not. To be honest, it's actually a good thing and when done correctly and tastefully is a step towards evolution of heritage and iconic designs of the past.
There's almost a moral spectrum we follow when we look at homage watches. The rational sides of us say "it's a decent watch with decent specs, why not?" While the emotional side says "yeah, but it lacks the history and story of the brand which I truly value."
So where do I land? As with most things, somewhere in the middle. I see no problem in having homage watches in collections provided they aren't fakes (Replicas tread a very fine line here as well.) For me, homages the likes of San Martin and Pagani exist for the person that wants one particular watch exclusively for the look and style, and is willing to settle on the fact that it is not nor will it ever be the watch from which it was based.
However, I've been in the watch community long enough to also know that there are alternatives for everything. And what I value more is when brands take the past and reshape it for the present. The Christopher Ward GMT is an example, paying homage to the Rolex McQueen, while having a design language all it's own. Another example is Lorier Falcon, taking the same 3,6,9 design of the 1016 but making it contemporary and modern.
So all in all, while I own this San Martin and have it as part of my collection, I don't think I'm one to pursue these types of homage watches as the definitive choice for a given style of watch. I enjoy the hunt of looking for alternatives to the legendary watches of the past. You never know, sometimes you may even find watches that you think are better than what you were looking for!
Collector of anything from Casio to Omega.
I still have some mixed feelings on homage watches. Or I should say clone watches. I have no problem at all with a watch paying homage to another watch, like the Lorier Falcon you mentioned which I very much love.
Nothing is original in this world, everything is derivative of something else.
1:1 clones though, I do not think I would ever buy one. Some of the Pagani and San Martin watches just seem like a copy paste job. Now I don’t blame anyone for getting them necessarily. I get the watches they copy are just way too unrealistically priced for many, myself included. But for me, I just cannot bring myself to get one.
So I would say I’m somewhere in the middle too. Inspiration and design cues is fine, if done well it’s even amazing.
Copy pasting is not fine.
Just my two cents
Great thoughts! I was just having this conversation yesterday with other crunchers puting Invicta as an example. I think SanMartin is a really good brand, and from the post there CEO made here on WC a few days ago - they want to make a more unique designs.
I also have to admit, that Casio has a lot of Rolex homages, Timex, Lorus, Seiko, there are many brands that have models that look suspiciously alike with Rolex and AP models.. so where is the line?
Great thoughts! I was just having this conversation yesterday with other crunchers puting Invicta as an example. I think SanMartin is a really good brand, and from the post there CEO made here on WC a few days ago - they want to make a more unique designs.
I also have to admit, that Casio has a lot of Rolex homages, Timex, Lorus, Seiko, there are many brands that have models that look suspiciously alike with Rolex and AP models.. so where is the line?
For me the line would be when the watch verges into a copy/paste territory. Sometimes it’s hard to draw that line even, but overall I think that’s a pretty clear line to follow.
I still have some mixed feelings on homage watches. Or I should say clone watches. I have no problem at all with a watch paying homage to another watch, like the Lorier Falcon you mentioned which I very much love.
Nothing is original in this world, everything is derivative of something else.
1:1 clones though, I do not think I would ever buy one. Some of the Pagani and San Martin watches just seem like a copy paste job. Now I don’t blame anyone for getting them necessarily. I get the watches they copy are just way too unrealistically priced for many, myself included. But for me, I just cannot bring myself to get one.
So I would say I’m somewhere in the middle too. Inspiration and design cues is fine, if done well it’s even amazing.
Copy pasting is not fine.
Just my two cents
Understandable. What I can say from.eprsonal experience is that the excitement for getting this watch in particular just wasn't there like I normally would have. And I feel like that says a lot.
Great thoughts! I was just having this conversation yesterday with other crunchers puting Invicta as an example. I think SanMartin is a really good brand, and from the post there CEO made here on WC a few days ago - they want to make a more unique designs.
I also have to admit, that Casio has a lot of Rolex homages, Timex, Lorus, Seiko, there are many brands that have models that look suspiciously alike with Rolex and AP models.. so where is the line?
Very good thoughts!
For me the line would be when the watch verges into a copy/paste territory. Sometimes it’s hard to draw that line even, but overall I think that’s a pretty clear line to follow.
So Invicta Pro Diver that has huge letters with brand name on the side of the case, is it a copy pastw or is it different enough?
Understandable. What I can say from.eprsonal experience is that the excitement for getting this watch in particular just wasn't there like I normally would have. And I feel like that says a lot.
Exactly what I am “scared” of, not to feel good for spending my money. I feel like buying a Snoopy Field timex or Lorus Fild watch in titanium would bring me more joy, and for the price os Fan Martin I cak get 4 of those
Exactly what I am “scared” of, not to feel good for spending my money. I feel like buying a Snoopy Field timex or Lorus Fild watch in titanium would bring me more joy, and for the price os Fan Martin I cak get 4 of those
Homages are an area of watches where it's better to be sure it's what you really want. My opinion is if there's doubt, don't do it. If there are ones that will make you happier, get those instead and if it's cheaper, they're definitely a better option!
Homages are fine-I own a few.
If it doesn't bother the OEM (Rolex,Tudor,Panerai,Seiko,Longines, etc) to take action they don't bother me.
Branded fakes,on the other hand, suck.
I don't mind homage watches. I'm sure the likes of San Martin, Seestern or Steeldive make absolutely killer watches for the money. I'm glad these entry-level manufacturers exist to broaden the options of enthusiasts on a budget.
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I like to think these Chinese microbrands create a healthy competition in the budget category that might ground Seiko or Orient prices to some extent, while the Swiss prices are skyrocketing out of control.
Though, since 90% of them are Rolex designs that do nothing for me and I hate mercedes hands, they never appealed to me anyway. 😂
If I did like the Explorer design however, I would buy a Smiths Everest homage in a heartbeat because that's a brand and a watch with a legitimate history, unlike the fake claims that Rolex was first to the Everest.
I just looked it up and the Rollie 1016 came out in 1963. Sixty years ago!!!! This is public domain. The SA has had plenty of time to profit from their design. That they choose to barely innovate is their problem. Limited intellectual property protections are there to spur innovation. Nobody that had any hand in developing said model is at risk of being deprived in any way at this point.
So Invicta Pro Diver that has huge letters with brand name on the side of the case, is it a copy pastw or is it different enough?
If that, and the logo in place of the Rolex logo, is all they did then for me no it’s enough for me to change it from copy/paste to homage. I do understand that a dive watch is a dive watch and most of them look similar. But I feel there is a difference between similar and the same except for some logo’s. Idk it’s definitely an interest topic!
I don't mind homage watches. I'm sure the likes of San Martin, Seestern or Steeldive make absolutely killer watches for the money. I'm glad these entry-level manufacturers exist to broaden the options of enthusiasts on a budget.
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I like to think these Chinese microbrands create a healthy competition in the budget category that might ground Seiko or Orient prices to some extent, while the Swiss prices are skyrocketing out of control.
Though, since 90% of them are Rolex designs that do nothing for me and I hate mercedes hands, they never appealed to me anyway. 😂
If I did like the Explorer design however, I would buy a Smiths Everest homage in a heartbeat because that's a brand and a watch with a legitimate history, unlike the fake claims that Rolex was first to the Everest.
Ah yes the Smiths Everest. That is a fan favorite for sure! Great thoughts!
I just looked it up and the Rollie 1016 came out in 1963. Sixty years ago!!!! This is public domain. The SA has had plenty of time to profit from their design. That they choose to barely innovate is their problem. Limited intellectual property protections are there to spur innovation. Nobody that had any hand in developing said model is at risk of being deprived in any way at this point.
Thanks for reading! Great thoughts. I think the McQueen may also fall into this catagory at this point as well 🤔
If that, and the logo in place of the Rolex logo, is all they did then for me no it’s enough for me to change it from copy/paste to homage. I do understand that a dive watch is a dive watch and most of them look similar. But I feel there is a difference between similar and the same except for some logo’s. Idk it’s definitely an interest topic!
I understand you, I have a similsr opinion to yours☺️
I have just noticed you have a dark wooden watch! I have the same one haha I tried to send it to you but my account is “new” so I can’t text no one yet
That’s cool! My wife (then girlfriend) for it for me from a time before I knew what a quartz and automatic watch even was. Though I do now wear it anymore, it will always have a special place for me!
That’s cool! My wife (then girlfriend) for it for me from a time before I knew what a quartz and automatic watch even was. Though I do now wear it anymore, it will always have a special place for me!
Same here, one of my first watches, they are super light! Guess it’s how a titanium watch feels like haga
Same here, one of my first watches, they are super light! Guess it’s how a titanium watch feels like haga
Count me out for titanium then, that wood watch is way to light😂 I like a little bit of heft in my watches
I agree with you. I’ve said it before on here, but don’t all watch makers “borrow” from the designs that came before them? I would argue that in a way, all watches are an “homage” to prior successful designs. Much in the way that all car designers copy successful designs from their competition.
That being said, I have no problem with homage watches and I own a San Martin Submariner homage that is a fun watch to wear.
I agree with you. I’ve said it before on here, but don’t all watch makers “borrow” from the designs that came before them? I would argue that in a way, all watches are an “homage” to prior successful designs. Much in the way that all car designers copy successful designs from their competition.
That being said, I have no problem with homage watches and I own a San Martin Submariner homage that is a fun watch to wear.
Yes! Thanks for reading! Glad to see such great responses from everyone!
I’m so exhausted with this conversation
Friend I vote aye
SM makes good quality watches. I just happen not to like homages of watches that do exist. SM makes a nice homage of the first Submariner. That is worth it in my opinion as the original is no longer available.
For probably every luxury high-end product there will be manufacturers who make lower-cost (not necessarily poor quality) versions to sell to the mass market. It's probably been happening since the dawn of industry (I've certainly seen a 14th Century example of a luxury acid-etched silk cloth and its mass-produced flocked-linen copy!).
However, I think the watch community needs to move away from the word "homage". "Homage" implies a romatic notion of "in-the-style-of-but-made-with-love-and-respect"; when in fact it's really referring to the more mundane "mass-produced copy". Using "homage" is pretentious. It's a salve for the ego of the watch collector so they can say "Yes, I bought the cheap version, but I'm still a true connoisseur, don't you know?"
The watch collecting sphere is just about the only place I've seen this pompus bollocks being applied so liberally. You don't hear people talk of their "Samsonite homage suitcases", "Levi's homage jeans" or "Slazenger homage tennis racquet".
Most people don't know you haven't bought the Real Thing. Most people don't even realise there is a Real Thing. They don't care you haven't bought the Real Thing. You don't need to justify you haven't bought the Real Thing.
You're a bit of a dick if you decide to gatekeep people who haven't bought the Real Thing, because somewhere else in your life you have probably bought many other Not Real Things.
I agree with the comments about copy/paste. Even if the logo is different, so it's not a fake.
I bought a Parnis kermit, just for fun. It looks fantastic on its black rubber strap. But I can't respect it as a watch, because it really is a Rolex knock off.
That said, if you like it, and you're fine with it - go for it!
This topic has cropped up many times, what I would say is that Steinhart, Islander watch, Timefactors et al have unashamedly copied some of Rolex designs and that’s ok with some on this forum in fact some of the Islander fans take it to such a level of worship it’s a bit cringeworthy …….however the Chinese brands who do exactly the same but charge less are lambasted.
Double standards.
I’ve had a Steinhart, I own several Timefactors and a Pagani and I’ve had some Heimdallr, Seestern, Steeldive …… I don’t have an issue with any of them, but let’s keep it in perspective, most watches apart from the ridiculous high end are copies or homages to something.
This topic has cropped up many times, what I would say is that Steinhart, Islander watch, Timefactors et al have unashamedly copied some of Rolex designs and that’s ok with some on this forum in fact some of the Islander fans take it to such a level of worship it’s a bit cringeworthy …….however the Chinese brands who do exactly the same but charge less are lambasted.
Double standards.
I’ve had a Steinhart, I own several Timefactors and a Pagani and I’ve had some Heimdallr, Seestern, Steeldive …… I don’t have an issue with any of them, but let’s keep it in perspective, most watches apart from the ridiculous high end are copies or homages to something.
Very good point. I've almost bought a Steinhart many times but the time has never been right for me for one and something else has always sprung up that I was more interested in. They brands you mentioned are all well made
I think in this economy it is completely ok to own a (homage) watch within whatever means you have, maybe it'll influence them to save up for their grail in the future
I don't plan on owning a ton of homage watches but I do have a blue, fully lumed bezel San Martin replica of the Seiko 6105. I wanted to see what the famed build quality was like (it's *really* good for paying under $200 on sale) and if Seiko wanted me to own a SPB153 they would have made it more affordable, tbh
For probably every luxury high-end product there will be manufacturers who make lower-cost (not necessarily poor quality) versions to sell to the mass market. It's probably been happening since the dawn of industry (I've certainly seen a 14th Century example of a luxury acid-etched silk cloth and its mass-produced flocked-linen copy!).
However, I think the watch community needs to move away from the word "homage". "Homage" implies a romatic notion of "in-the-style-of-but-made-with-love-and-respect"; when in fact it's really referring to the more mundane "mass-produced copy". Using "homage" is pretentious. It's a salve for the ego of the watch collector so they can say "Yes, I bought the cheap version, but I'm still a true connoisseur, don't you know?"
The watch collecting sphere is just about the only place I've seen this pompus bollocks being applied so liberally. You don't hear people talk of their "Samsonite homage suitcases", "Levi's homage jeans" or "Slazenger homage tennis racquet".
Most people don't know you haven't bought the Real Thing. Most people don't even realise there is a Real Thing. They don't care you haven't bought the Real Thing. You don't need to justify you haven't bought the Real Thing.
You're a bit of a dick if you decide to gatekeep people who haven't bought the Real Thing, because somewhere else in your life you have probably bought many other Not Real Things.
When " pompous bollocks" appears in a comment I nearly spat my tea out! Well said that man. Couldn't agree more!