Homage or Original?

I have two, both Pagani, both Seamaster styled. Because at the end of the day, it’s actually design styles and cues I like — which leads to me liking Omega. They are both just dissimilar enough to the ‘real’ one that I don’t feel fussed about accusations of fakery (though I don’t like the copy pasta ones so much, I do find some attitudes to them to be mean-spirited and usually ill-informed. People forget the existence of the era of ‘Swiss Fakes’ it seems, or many watch brands cribbing on their rise to the top) and they are likely at least a little more ‘Street Safe’ than ‘real’ luxury watches.

One thing in particular I like is the very fact there are differences -- sadly some homage fans complain about things being ‘wrong’ when really it’s those very differences that make them.

There’s plenty of photos of mine in my Gallery, and I doubt anyone could pick a whole watch they are a copy of, rather than simply sharing elements with my ‘grail’ watches.

Thank you very much for your answer. You really made a lot of good points. For example, I don't like fakes that use the brand name and logo of the original. And yes, it is precisely the small differences that make the watch interesting and prove that it is a homage and not a 1:1 copy.

Funny you should post this today. I just got this homage in the mail today from AliExpress. 

I have no objection to homages. I have a number of them in my collection, including the Rangemaster.

I agree with the points made by @JaimeMadeira about homages taking cues versus being straight copies, or clomages if you will. It is easy to see the influences on the Rangemaster design, but it is not exactly like either the Explorer or the Ranger. Early on, I did get an Invicta Pro Diver, but it never became a favorite like the Rangemaster has, probably because it had no character of its own.

I just saw your post and yes, your watch realy looks nice. I appreciate your words and it's good to see that there are people that are likeminded. I don't know why, but I had realy guilty feelings prior ordering the watch and it felt a bit like cheating. I thought that if I can't afford the original then I simply can not have it. But at the end of the day it is a watch and it should make me happy. 

I have a few in my boxes and honestly I think most enthusiasts have one or more in thier boxes. 

All I can say don't let other opinions dictate what you like. If it meets your specs and price and you like or love it buy it. 

Enjoy the watch!

Cheers!

Thanks mate! I think you are 💯% right!

There are watches, and specific models, that no-one, and I do mean no-one, is going to lay hands on in an as-new, or even reliably working manner. What else does that leave but homages? One way or another? Whether it’s got Tudor written on the dial or Pagani. After that, all the quibbles are basically about money and status. 
I may not be big on ‘clomage’ but I certainly don‘t have anything against them.

edit:

here’s something that puts an historical spin on ‘Swiss Made’:

https://mb.nawcc.org/wiki/Encyclopedia-Subjects/European-Pocket-Watches/Swiss-Fake

Yes, you are right about that. The price of some watches is so astronomically high that only a few can enjoy them. That feels a bit unfair when you think about it.

It’s ultimately just supply and demand, which means fairness doesn’t entirely factor in, but what it does mean is that ultimately the ‘homage’ debate creeps its way practically even to the more luxury brands — the Submariner even borrowed its name from another watch after all.

When I wear my Pagani, I am not thinking it’s an Omega, nor suggesting to anyone that it is an Omega (certainly no more than anyone sticking one of the Bond colourways Nato straps on their diver of choice is at any rate)

Its not unfair that Seamasters are currently out of my spending range, that is just life, but it is daft to suggest that I shouldn’t therefore find something in my range that has elements of design that I like on the Seamaster, as though that is in some way dishonest. To an extent the same is true for the manufacturers — within reason. It’s all about honesty at the end of the day.

And even saying that… it looks like Steeldive make a better Willard than Seiko these days. 

Honestly...I do not respect Copy Cats and I do not accept them as watch makers, but I do respect the owner.

For me in watch collection it is not about the watch. It's about the story behind.

And if your story is about the love to a certain design or brand which is unreachable, so why should I judge your joy on this watch.

Even I don't like copy brands but I'm glad they exist so that everybody can live his passion in his own way.

So enjoy your passion.

You hit the nail on the head!

I don't own any homages ( unless you argue that my Orient Ray 2 or Casio duro are Submariner homages!)

I actually like the idea of an attainable homage to originals that are very rare and/or unaffordable because they went out of production years ago. For that reason I will at some point be buying something from Steinhart. Proper quality pieces that are clearly homages yet are affordable and have their own fan base as a result.

Handy things.

Chose my son a Skmei G-Shock homage, because there’s no point dropping 80-100 quid on something he may not wear, but this way he has a watch that’s very very similar to Daddy‘s. Except Daddy’s doesn’t come in cool army camo, and it doesn’t change light colour. I mean sure, it can 200m underwater and tell the time in other countries, but what use is that? Glowing Blue is where it’s at.

And people pay 10k for a Blancpain homage that got the bezel numbers wrong on the regular ;) 

I mean, which is better for the then-under-ten? I am not sure the Skmei doesn’t look cooler than my GD350. His other not-a-G even changes colour. He graduated to a proper Casio Royale this year, maybe I should get the homage this time. (Grabbed photos from Amazon for the Skmei, as it is late, can’t get his actual watch to hand.) 

Homages are useful things.

In fact, that's how I first came across the Seestern. One user recommended to another user who was interested in the original Sub 300T that he should get the Seestern first to see if he could get comfortable with the design before spending so much money. That is another very useful purpose.

This page is pretty overwhelmingly pro homage - so contrarian me will risk the unpopular side.

I’ll start by saying I don’t begrudge how anyone spends their money - enjoy it, you earned it! 💪

I personally won’t wear “homage” watches.  For me, I’d rather spend my limited funds on original designs, even if if means I’ll never own most of my grails.   I’m ok with that.  They wouldn’t seem like grails after a few days of ownership anyway.  Human nature.  💁‍♂️

Doxa in particular is tough call - I researched Doxa in it’s current state and was mostly dissatisfied with what I found, and decided not to save up for one.    

Generally, I buy and keep watches based on how I connect with them. Example: My Ginza Alpinist reminds me of wonderful times with my wife in Gion and Ginza, and it’s a gift from her.   I can talk of events and emotions that connect with almost all my watches.  The ones that lack this are most likely to be sold.

One last and unhappy point to mention.  (Grim aside start)

I also have a general - avoid buying from China when possible - goal.  the Uighur genocide, the South China Sea militarization, factory farming of ocean life & global overfishing, eco disaster pollution, crushing honk Kong, cruelly making dissent ‘disappear’, Tibet,  decades long often government assisted IP theft and rampant copying, .. the list goes on.  Of course, it’s quite impossible to avoid ‘made in china‘ most of the time.   But I try!  🤷‍♂️

Grim aside over 

Happy collecting @Bjoern and welcome to Crunch-ville!

Hey Alan!
Thank you for your feedback with your honest opinions. You mention many things that have always corresponded to my mindset. Nevertheless, I decided to buy the Seestern because I was impressed by the many good reviews and I could also understand the pro-arguments.

Especially also with trying not to buy in China if it is avoidable, you also made a great point. I think all these things were one of the reasons why I had such a strange feeling before buying, which I described above.

I don't want to give a review of the Seestern, because there are enough of them, but I have to confess one thing now:
I will probably send mine back. I wore it for just under a day and although I actually think it's really pretty and well made watch, that feeling didn't go away and it didn't make me happy. There were also a few little things in the workmanship that bothered me more than I thought.

Nevertheless, I still see the advantages of such watches and can understand why many people buy them and love them. 

Just to make this point clear:
Of course, I don't hold the watch to the same standards as a luxury watch.
For around $200, the Seestern is really a remarkably well-made watch, with a great design and great functions. No question about it.
Nevertheless, I came to the conclusion that I'd rather not have the watch and save the money for another watch in the future.

I treat them as place holders. A homage gives me an idea of if I will like the watch enough to get a real one. Or if its something I will never afford to just have a little taste.

I do find I don't wear the homages and tend to flip them. And this is as I fill my collection with mid range "real brands"

So in hindsight they were a false economy.

However they make a great springboard as cheap components for mods.

No problem with Homage watches myself personally. If you buy a Homage and you end up really loving the watch it may prompt you to obtain the original, so there is that ! Nice watch by the way :)  I tend to like German watches myself, it must be the Prussian ancestry influencing my decisions as I love the bauhaus designs and just everything about them ! 

I also like the design. This was what attracted meto the watch in the first place. As I mentioned this watch will leave my collection, because I couldn't connect with it right, which doesn't mean that it isn't a beauty. Even though they called the brand Seester, I doubt that it has anything to do with Germany apart from the name. 

I actually had this exact homage and I have an explorer homage. I think if an original price is just out of your pricepoint, then do it! It allowed me to see what it was like to have that watch and now the 300t is the watch I’m saving up for. I sold my homage and i miss it. BUT, I sold it to a guy who was buying it for his father to replace his actual Doxa that had broken, until they could afford the repairs. His old salty dog father loves it! 

what a great story!

My relationship with homage watches is that I have grown out of them. I don't say that in a disparaging way, either. I think homage watches fulfill different needs for people. For some, they are the only way they will ever wear that style of watch. For some, they are a way to try a style of watch and, if they like it, maybe they will buy the real deal in the future. And so on.

A personal example of mine can be seen in How It Started vs. How It's Going

Basically, I used the Steinhart homage to scratch the itch of an Explorer style dial, and also the lesser itches of a vintage style diver, and a 1950s Rolex itch (something I'll never own for real), and after a period of time, I got over it and when I got my Tudor Heritage Ranger, it felt very natural to let go of the Steinhart. I felt nothing for it, and didn't feel I needed it any more.

With my collection now at a solid 8 watches where there are no microbrands, and no homages, and I can look from watch to watch and say... banger... banger... banger... I don't see myself buying a homage ever again, unless under exceptional circumstances, eg: The Urban Gentry does one of its limited editions that I want to support and it's riffing on some other design.

This one is still on my list! These Seestern's are great, just like Steeldive watches. Enjoy the watch.

Yes, you are right. As I wrote above, I actually wanted to send my #seestern back. But since there was some uncertainty whether I would get the money back and since I would have had to pay the shipping (>$40), I decided to keep it. And indeed, I have worn it many times now and really enjoy it! I also find the #seiko #willard homage by #steeldive very interesting. The watch also looks really great.

Similar to what previous posters have said, I've got nothing against homage watches like Seestern.

Rolex was infamous for stealing designs back in the...heck the Submariner is based on an old UK milspec design from what I understand.

BUT fair warning, the bracelets on those AliExpress watches are notoriously terrible.

The Seestern I ordered had a jammed clasp pin...applying a small amount of force basically loosened the clasp rivet...which was a very sketchy friction fit 😂

Thank you very much for your answer. I have to admit that I really like wearing my Seestern. It gets a lot of wristtime because of its fantastic (albeit stolen) design. You are right, the bracelet is not of the best quality. The clasp on mine was so tight that I could hardly open it when it was on my wrist. But I just used a file to remove some material and now it works fine.

I was never a fan of the Doxta watch, I remember it when I was a child watching that French diver wearing it once but then the Sesterm came out and I thought I would give it a look as its a lot cheaper than the real thing, in the end, I was very impressed with the build and I have kept it as a result. Would I buy the original? Nope, it's

nice but not that nice lol.

Homage - but very troubling