Seiko 5s - No longer durable?

I've not owned a seiko 5,but not hard to not notice that vintage seiko and GS were better made and more love gone into them than newer models,its crazy but if you look hard enough in seiko back catalogue the standard seiko models some were on GS level,they only make models in this era that look a bit like a GS,so what your saying doesn't surprise me,not just watches quality of everything is lacking,how many phones do we go through because they don't last,but there meant to be worth the thousands we spend on them,my Nokia 8210 still works as it did,my new iPhone dies everytime they release a new model 🙄😂nice designer shirt now compared to twenty years ago,not even comparable class years ago,now perspective two words Keith lemon,design and quality trash.

I hear you but that convo also made me question whether the 'poorer' quality might stop me from buying any more watches for collecting 🥲

No my friend opposite I've just saved you money buy vintage,there better quality and cheaper 🙄😬😂and get an old Nokia 😂🤣last parts a joke we have evolved to much since then,no window shopping on an 8210.

I dropped my Seiko 5 on the floor last year. Then it stopped working all together. The movement is totally broken.

I haven’t taken it to the shop yet, too lazy.

I brought a few Seiko, ended up selling all of them. The quality is just not good enough for the price you pay. So if the mouvement is on top of that dodgy, this only confirm the reason I sold all of them

Aww man, I really like my Seikos. It was like the watch I wanted to wear when I started earning. I guess this is why they say don't meet your heroes, you will be disappointed 🤣

Designed obsolescence my friend. I have a friend who dreamt all his life about working for Mercedes Benz. Bought his first one when he was 14. He eventually got a job at Mercedes and worked as a engineer for them for a couple of years. He absolutely hated it. He was told to make things less than optimal but economically viable. He told me that when he suggested design changes to ensure durability and optimal performance they were shot down most of the time because it would cost more. He wont buy a new Merc ever again he told me. Now if they do that with cars why wont they do it with watches? I bought a Seiko turtle a few years ago and it performed horribly. I think they simply don't care. They make so many of them that acceptable quality deviation is part of the game.

There is truth in this, both good and bad. Engineering is allocation of scarce resources, and this means not making things better than necessary. Toyota similarly realized that they were making (I believe the term was ) "fat" cars that exceeded customer desires and usage and thus had unnecessary extra cost. They've trimmed the fat. Overbuilt products last longer, but they are rarely cheap. Of course Seikos are no cheaper today but that's a different complaint.

Anyway, I'd love to ask this guy, you know, well what is the failure mode? What is causing these issues? Or is this idle calumny?

I have a 7S26 Seiko 5 that had a new movement popped in about two years ago. After dropping it easily a dozen times, accuracy has suffered. A few days ago I gave the most half-assed attempt to regulate it (literally one nudge) and it seems to be doing splendidly now.

I have 2 Seiko 5s new ones. I have one for 3 years and other one for 4 years. Both are running perfectly. I went to my watchmaker and he said it looks like watches dont need service because they run great! I really dont think that new ones are badly made. Stainless steel is great, in 4&3 years the both watches have little to no scratches on case or crystal and these ones are most worn watches. And the timekeeping is awesome. In 4 years the red one has about 10-20 seconds plus in month and brownish sunburst has max 15 seconds a month in 3 years. Which is not a lot by mechanical watch standarts.

I'm always very cautious about these stories, unless there is a specific reason why something has changed. You can easily tell where the 4R335 / NH35 came from when you take a look at the movement, as the changes from previous versions were gradual.

My oldest Seiko mechanical movement is a 7S26, it is still functioning fine, even though I have no idea how long it sat on a shelf.

I had one NH35 break on me. I tried to get the movement into a cheap plastic movement holder, which was under tension with the movement in it, causing the naked movement to fly out of my hand and onto the desk. Aside from that all my NH35s are still running, but they are on a rotation, so they are worn once a week or every other week. It's been about 4 years now.

Now, there are questionable Seiko movements, for sure. The 6R35 for example, where Seiko seems to have traded accuracy for power reserve, but that is no mystery.

After 6 years ill report on the performance 😄

Well stated. If I recall these vehicles where designed to last the full extent of their warranties and perhaps a bit beyond. Warranty claims were rather high as well. Maybe that goes for our timepieces too... We will never know. As you said previous vehicles were overbuilt to last longer which meant a good reputation BUT lower sales volume. I mean why would you buy a new one if the old one still works right? (On a side note, I don't put a lot of stock in modern designed Toyota's haha. They don't even build half of their own cars anymore.) I wonder if Seiko is not pushing a similar business model. Pump out as much stuff as possible and rely on your reputation. The funny thing is that the older 7s26 movements that were made and shipped to Lorus, Pulsar and Alba watches where apparently better made than the newer ones. I cant verify that of course but that would explain the vast variations you see among many collectors today. Glad you got your Seiko sorted!

Mine is still going strong….i believe this model is 2 years old

From quality movements to replacement movements is where the industry is now. Japanese movements are generally under $100.00 and The base Swiss movements are around $200.00. (there are unbranded and Tissot branded powermatic 80's on Ali for $100.00 right now). It's a plug and play world now because labour is more expensive than parts.

I don't have new Seiko's but I have a 27 year old SNXS77, I don't even know its origin, but it was never serviced. It even stopped once (I had to move the balance wheel manually, and it started to work again), and it runs around -8 s/d, which is quite amazing.

Oh it came to my mind I had a new Seiko 5 Sports 4 years ago and it ran a lot of seconds ahead a day! I think the factory regulation isn't so good or they don't do it at all. I would try to go to a watchmaker, check its accuracy then ask them to make it better.

The 4R features hacking and hand winding, but I think that their quality control has slipped up lately and that is to blame rather than additional components.

The 4R35 and the off-brand NH35 are probably the most common movements by units sold in the world. If there were systematic problems with these movements, I would expect to hear a whole lot more about it.

But what I hear is largely a concern about the lack of regulation from the factory, which is true.

Are the staff watchmakers? Depends on how often you wear your seiko and how you treat it.

My brother in law works in an underground mine and has to wear mechanical watches. His don't last more than 5 years because of coal dust, dirt and mud. His watches (mostly Seiko's) get bashed around in the worst conditions and need servicing every 3 to 4 years. He tends to just buy a new one. Your average person working above ground shouldn't need to service their watch as often depending on how they treat it.

You have a good point, but I neglected bringing that up because the 7S26 and its variants are almost as common, but I seldom hear about them failing as quickly as I've heard some 4Rs.

I take these stories with a grain of salt, similar to the hand-winding issues with the ETA 2824 / SW 200. Yes, there is a weak spot in the how the automatic winding is set up. Then again, the numbers produced are enormous, and you don't hear from people for whom the watch just works.

I can't argue there. Horror stories tend to get blown up out of proportion. “No news is good news,” as the adage goes.

Personally, I am still a bit weary of the 4R and NH35 movements. I'm an old-school paranoid bugger.

Yeah, I was also paranoid in the beginning, but after having probably close to 20 NH35/36 in my collection, and having stripped and reassembled an NH35 a few times, there are very few things that would worry me. I might be coming up on 4 years with my oldest movements, but no indication of a required service at this time.

Heck, I once broke of the stem in the movement. (see below)

It took a while to get to it. You can also see the long lever in the lower part of the movement. It's very obvious that this was an afterthought introduced by the hacking function. (The keyless works and the balance are on opposite ends of the movement, unlike the 2824.)

I once put a 4R36 in a pile of scrap watch parts and left it in there for over a year. When I took it out, it was still running. Out of curiosity, I put a dial and hands on it, and cased it up. It ran absolutely fine after an adjustment. I was floored.

Paranoid? No way! Knowledgeable and savvy😎

To some extent, all knowledge and experience comes from equal parts paranoia and overeagerness.

I've dropped my 6 months old Seiko 5 a couple of times, and it still runs around 6 to 7 seconds fast a day while on the wrist every day.

Having read people praising the 4R36 as a very basic but reliable movement plenty of times, I also take the one post like this with a grain of salt. At 230 euro it's a great everyday watch you don't have to worry too much about.

I've considered getting an Alpinist (or a SARB) for a while, but unlike the 4R36, I'm having a hard time justifying paying 7-800 euro for the 6r35, which doesn't seem to offer much more than the 4r35 except for slightly better regulation and a longer power reserve which I don't really care about.

I'd rather have the 6r35 than a Powermatic though.

Probably lines up in terms of timeline to when Seikos started being made in Indonesia etc., and not Japan proper

Yes alongside gs stopping production,and factory separation,can see the difference nowadays in higher priced seiko models when there produced out of gs factory 👍

And has the regulation lasted for long time? Is there any big positional difference?

That 6R35 is so variable it hurts 🤕

True although too many brands don't push as much effort into quartz watches vs mechanicals