Which watch has more soul?

apples to oranges there from both ends of the price spectrum. Soul has a price tag

I think it is unfair that you picked the homeliest Swatch around, but you've made your point: the "quartz has no soul" crowd are off base. Not that I find GS to be anything but well made machines, but even their bland character eclipses the Sistem 51.

Is that why so many are selling theirs?

both of those watches take a beating in the used market. They both have respected movements. ETA has a reputation for quality the same as GS. The soul part comes with all the work you have to do to earn one compared to the pocket change the other cost.

“I’ve got soul but I’m not a soul-ja (soldier).”

Anyone want to trade a GS (any GS) for my Sistem51 🤣?

When both watches die, do they meet the Watch God who passes final judgment to send them to Watch heaven or Watch hell?

You've uncovered my bias. I prefer quartz. I like mechanical too! But . . . QUARTZ!! Brilliant watchmakers in the 60s said, let's make these tiny tiny tuning forks out of - oh, I don't know - quartz, and put them into this sort of can inside the watch, and apply a current to make the little quartz tuning fork oscillate at a precise frequency, and then use gears and motors and integrated circuits and whatnot to step it down to one precise tick per second, and have a battery the size of a small pea power the whole thing for about three years*. And people these days yawn. To them I would say, "What have you done lately that's fantastic?"

*Probably not a completely scientifically accurate description of a quartz movement, but hopefully close.

Everyone defines the concept of soul of an inanimate object differently. What most folks want to say is soul, the ticking of a watch, or the rumble of an engine = heart, not soul.

Using the textbook definition: "essence of a person, which includes one's identity, personality, and memories" that leaves a Kali Gandaki Gorge size gap for interpretation.

I have smart watches that have been with me for some of my greatest physical and mental tests of will. I have high-end pieces that at most have jumped into the ocean. Which do you think had a greater impact memory wise? The bomb-proof watch that helped keep pace during an endurance event or the man jewelry most are afraid to bump into the sharp edge of their Mac Book?

I have a friend who has a watch passed down. It is a cheap quartz Seiko Chornograph, probably cost $120 new at the time. Sure has heck entirely robot made with zero regard for quality on its way to a Macy's anniversary sale. That watch is a tie to a loved one. When the chrono module died, did they care that it cost 3x more than the watch to repair? No. Do you think they feel the watch has no soul? It is one of the most cherished things they have.

I share this to illustrate the many ways one could assign such a designation to an object outside of a disposable automatic vs. top-of-the-line module. There is room for all of us to anthropomorphize our toys however we want.

I don't know the exact answer, but here's how the afterlife sort of works. Heaven is for eternity, and therefore there is no keeping track of Time, and no need for clocks and watches. But God lets you have your Ultimate Dream Watch just the same, because He knows that looking down at your wrist and never seeing an awesome watch there is a pretty good working definition of Hell.

Your last sentence is really funny, and thought provoking, and would probably make a better post than this one. Something like, nominate three good watches for Watch Heaven, (one of which could be my elegant Tissot Everytime with her capricious second hand), and three evil ones for Watch Hell (my little diva Seiko 5 SNKK87 with no power reserve would end up there). Hey, I just noticed that my quartz watch is going to Heaven, and the mechanical one to Hell. I swear that I just now noticed this! And we could also have fun naming a Watch God. Who would that be?

Eternal damnation it is

You have my blessing to post any of those ideas

Thank you for posting this. Very thoughtful, and with some classic lines too, my favorite of which is " . . . man jewelry most are afraid to bump into the sharp edge of their MacBook"

Here is what I think about it. I picked the Sistem 51 to be the "no soul" one even though it's mechanical because I have heard it's the only mechanical watch completely assembled by robots, being untouched by human hands. And I picked the Grand Seiko Quartz because I'm guessing there's a lot of handwork on any GS, quartz included. I never understood the "mechanical watch -soul, quartz watch - no soul" thing. In this case I pick the GS as having "soul" because it took a human touch to finish each one.

Sidebar: Was the Seiko Chrono that was handed down entirely robot made? You might know something I don't, because I have seen various videos on quartz watches with actual workers doing at least some final assembly. I admit lots of bias here, and don't agree with zero regard for quality, because I have an actual $125 bread and butter Macy's Seiko Chrono SE-SSB089, and seven other "Macy's" Seikos, none of which cost over $95, and the quality on all eight is fine.

Back to the main body. I say your smart watches were the ones with soul, and so was the Chrono left to the loved ones. And although this could never happen, I would like to find some of the workers in Asia that assembled my watches and thank them for building such a beautiful thing that I enjoyed so much and for so many years. They themselves might not even agree that their soul was in it, but I think it was, and that's how I see it.

Soul is in the imperfections that we love. Perfect things have no soul. Souls are only in the imperfect.

None of them has more soul than the other, they are both machines build to perform a very specific function and the only character they have is the emotional attachment given to each, and this is specific to each owner.

Or we can look at this the other way, assuming both watches are owned by people lacking empathy or the capability to form emotional relationship, or even have true feelings, would this theoretical owner be able to understand the concept of pairing soul and watches together?

To me each watch I own is its own entity and has soul because of it.

My CWC is quartz, but was issued to the Navy in 1990 and has 'lived' so therefore has 'soul' regardless of what powers it. My Vostok was sold to me by a Ukrainian who posted it from the Ukraine just as the war was starting, it's mechanical and because of its life and (inanimate) evacuee status also has soul.

I could go on with the others, but I'd be boring you all to tears.

What I'm trying to say is an object has soul because of what we project upon it, it's not the object itself. A plastic McDonalds Happy Meal toy can have soul if a little kid gave you it to cheer you up when you were feeling down. ❤️

They're inanimate objects, & I don't believe anything has a soul - alive or not. Of the two, if built to the same standard & value I'd choose the sistem51 because springdrive just doesn't appeal to me - I'm not anti-quartz, just prefer mechanical.

Neither are particularly alluring… one is a mass-produced piece of tat, the other is an exercise in style over substance (personal opinion, I’m not particularly enamoured with Seiko, “Grand” or otherwise, as I find their entire catalogue confusing and overpriced with serious issues on QC).

Not that you are courting my opinion, but I like watches with scars and stories. I find a battered 1930s Vertex in a Borgel case much more interesting and worthy of attention than anything modern. The fact this thing is 90 years old and not dropping time should indicate that is has something to say. This watch has lived a life, happy or otherwise, and therefore the romantic in me will always give it the time of day. The fact that I’m stuck in the #1wc means I am yet to wear this one, and I’ve been after a decent Allproof for a while now.

I really don't have an opinion on this matter.

I'm only here for the Olivia Newton-John quote.

What I find strange is that for both watches the metal parts are probably made with a CNC milling/turning machine, which is essentially a robot, and the quartz mechanism is also not made by hand. And still we set the limit at assembly by hand or not to determine if it has a "soul".

Watches have no soul. There is just sentimental attachment on our part. That goes for the robots that build them too.

I buy cheap watches as well as luxury ones.. but when i came across the system 51, i just couldnt see myself wearing one. I guess it lacks the "soul" that even my well worn casios and timex undoubtedly have!

Thank you for the response. That could also be its own Post - i.e., show us your most soulful Timex or Casio.

With this new "Artificial Intelligence" I keep hearing about, they say robots indeed may one day have a soul. So far, I'm kind of uneasy with Artificial Intelligence. Shouldn't we work a little harder on Real Intelligence first?

Thank you for your response, it's pretty excellent. " . . . an object has soul because of what we project upon it, it's not the object itself." This of course gets to the bottom of this little thought exercise and says it in the exact 16 words needed to say it.

Also, "I could go on with the others, but I'd be boring you all to tears."

No, I don't think so.

Thank you for your response. Many good sentences here, my favorites being " . . . I like watches with scars and stories" and "This watch has lived a life . . . and therefore the romantic in me will always give it the time of day." (And vice versa).

That Vertex is an absolute beaut, and it doesn't even look very battered on my screen.

Acrylic is cracked at 2 and 8 o’clock - easy fix, but not the end of the world right now.

The dial text is faded, especially Allproof about the sub-second dial, but that’s all part of the charm; it was clearly worn outside in the sunshine, like it should.

I have a particular soft spot for Vertex. A British “jobber”, they were very good at the time, and were one of the twelve brands to complete the brief for the WWW (aka the Dirty Dozen). They therefore keep amongst hallowed company such as IWC, Longines, and Omega. They didn’t make an ATP watch though, but I suppose the Allproof is actually slightly better in spec than the ATP (controversial? Maybe…).

Man, now that's an interesting question no one has brought up (that's why we post this stuff). The best I can do is I've seen a few psychologists say that sociopaths can sometimes love a very select group of people, although this confuses me because then they wouldn't really be sociopaths, would they? Now I can imagine garden variety and even serial killer type sociopaths doing their abusive thing all day, and then lovingly polishing their Submariners and Arnies at night.

Thank you 🙏😃👍🏼

Let's not dramatize things too much, first we are all sociopaths to some degree. There's even an excellent TED presentation about this very topic.

https://youtu.be/xYemnKEKx0c

What I tried to explain in too many words is that thinking that watches have a soul is a fallacy, but it's a fallacy that we are willing to accept because of who we are and not because of what the watch is.

Thank you, and thanks for posting the video. I will scope it out.