The ultimate German flieger watch?
Which of the following German fliegers do you prefer and why?
All of them are modern takes on the original flieger designs and all 3 companies have a long history, with Stowa and Laco being two of the original flieger manufacturers. Ickler (the company behind Archimede) has a history as long as Stowa and Laco and are renowned as one of the best case producers in Germany. They also tend to make the slimmest flieger (their Pilot 42 Hand-wound is less than 9mm thick!) and are slightly cheaper than the Stowa Classic and the Laco Flieger Pro.
As I like them all for various reasons, I'm very curious what others think about the strengths and weaknesses the 3 moders.
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Neo Matik
Newly minted watch enthusiast (I got seriously interested in watches in late 2022). I aim to build a small collection (5-6) pieces over the course of the years. I'm mostly into Tudor & Seiko these day...
Member since
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6.70” / 17.02 cm
D. Damasko DS30.
Archimede, because zi have a sterile dial 42 and it's 👍
When I was looking for a flieger type-A in 2010 I faced the same conundrum.
Regarding brand history I wanted to go for a brand that was indeed one of the original manufacturer. As I couldn't afford Wempe or IWC watches, it was Laco or Stowa and thus not Archimede (despite the fact that their watches were more affordable).
At that time, the feedback I got from french watch forums was that Stowa was making better watches than Laco.
So I went for a Stowa... Even if I knew I would be waiting a lot because there was a high demand. And I waited 5 months to get my watch.
The prices where not the same ten years ago ... I got it with several straps for less than 500€...
Today, depending on your budget, it may be worth going for Laco if you're under 1k€/$/£. If you're over 1k then IMO I would still go for Stowa. But I'm a bit biased 😅
Hanhart 417es 😎
Stowa or Laco, I don’t think you can go wrong with either. Love the way Laco are going with the pro but wish they had gone for 100m water resistance and kept the push/pull crown on the hand wind. I have a Stowa B dial H/W, lovely watch. I had the side engraved, but they charge too for that option in my opinion.
Don’t know to much about them. 🫠
Stowa or Laco, I don’t think you can go wrong with either. Love the way Laco are going with the pro but wish they had gone for 100m water resistance and kept the push/pull crown on the hand wind. I have a Stowa B dial H/W, lovely watch. I had the side engraved, but they charge too for that option in my opinion.
Totally agree about the crowns - I think screw in crowns don't make a lot of sense on fliegers. Especially those with handwound movements. Also - Stowa and Archimede have slimmer cases for their handwound versions.
I have a Type-B Laco and have been on the hunt for the right Type-A.
All three of these are under consideration along with the Muhle Terrasport II and the Aristo 4H68 (plus the SWC Hyper-G from Switzerland).
All the choices you included would be just fine. I think the Laco with the Erbstueck option is the way to go. I have a Laco Becoachter Erbstueck (42mm) and I really love it.
When I was looking for a flieger type-A in 2010 I faced the same conundrum.
Regarding brand history I wanted to go for a brand that was indeed one of the original manufacturer. As I couldn't afford Wempe or IWC watches, it was Laco or Stowa and thus not Archimede (despite the fact that their watches were more affordable).
At that time, the feedback I got from french watch forums was that Stowa was making better watches than Laco.
So I went for a Stowa... Even if I knew I would be waiting a lot because there was a high demand. And I waited 5 months to get my watch.
The prices where not the same ten years ago ... I got it with several straps for less than 500€...
Today, depending on your budget, it may be worth going for Laco if you're under 1k€/$/£. If you're over 1k then IMO I would still go for Stowa. But I'm a bit biased 😅
For me it's more of a matter of usability and quality, the price doesn't matter much given that all 3 options are positioned pretty close in terms of price. The handwound Stowa 40 is my favorite, but I'm still wondering if the Archimede and the Laco might have some meaningful advantage over it (e.g. the Archimede supposedly has a better finished case and is a bit thinner).
I have a Type-B Laco and have been on the hunt for the right Type-A.
All three of these are under consideration along with the Muhle Terrasport II and the Aristo 4H68 (plus the SWC Hyper-G from Switzerland).
I'm also considering the Muhle Terrasport II when it comes to Type-A. I like its more universal appeal, the bracelet and the modern touches here and there, but most of time I drawn towards slightly more toolish renditions of the flieger.
I'm not very fond of Aristo - at this price point I prefer Dekla, as they seem of higher quality to me.
SWC have a horrible logo that I can't look at. Otherwise they look like good watches for their money. I might have even gotten a SWC Bunker if it wasn't for the logo and the horrible date.
Had a very tough choice deciding between Laco and Stowa. Ultimately, I went with Laco because they just launched the Flieger pro series where you can customize just about everything.
I will be completely honest, I added this to the collection simply because I wanted a Flieger from one of the 4 original brands. It’s not a watch that I would wear every day, or even every week. But I enjoy having it in the collection as an option and I think the Laco execution on this piece is great
Hanhart 417es 😎
I have seriously been considering this watch. What are your thoughts on it?
E. Sinn. Any Sinn
i want to say Stowa flieger because i’ve always had a soft spot for Stowa watches. i have a Stowa Chronograph and their designs and quality belie their somewhat affordable price point.
but i’ve also handled a Laco at watch meet ups and i think the Laco quality is even better. and Laco allows for a lot more customization of their pilots watch model, allowing to choose from logo or no logo, etc. so my vote goes to Laco.
someone suggested Sinn, and while i think they’re a good brand i don’t think of them particularly for flieger models and don’t fit in with the flieger discussion. i believe both Stowa and Laco have a (somewhat loose) heritage to making actual pilots watches in aviation history, whereas Archimedes and Sinn are younger brands.
Had a very tough choice deciding between Laco and Stowa. Ultimately, I went with Laco because they just launched the Flieger pro series where you can customize just about everything.
I will be completely honest, I added this to the collection simply because I wanted a Flieger from one of the 4 original brands. It’s not a watch that I would wear every day, or even every week. But I enjoy having it in the collection as an option and I think the Laco execution on this piece is great
Same sentiment here. :-) I can imagine wearing an IWC Mark XX or a Muhle Terrasport more often due to their more dressy appearance, but I doubt I'd be wearing a more vintage-looking flieger super often. And that's fine. :-)
E. Sinn. Any Sinn
Recently I got an 556i and I'm quite happy with it. I do consider it a more "modern" pilot watch, though (and I bucket there Damasko's offerings as well). A different beast than the older "classic" fliegers.
i want to say Stowa flieger because i’ve always had a soft spot for Stowa watches. i have a Stowa Chronograph and their designs and quality belie their somewhat affordable price point.
but i’ve also handled a Laco at watch meet ups and i think the Laco quality is even better. and Laco allows for a lot more customization of their pilots watch model, allowing to choose from logo or no logo, etc. so my vote goes to Laco.
someone suggested Sinn, and while i think they’re a good brand i don’t think of them particularly for flieger models and don’t fit in with the flieger discussion. i believe both Stowa and Laco have a (somewhat loose) heritage to making actual pilots watches in aviation history, whereas Archimedes and Sinn are younger brands.
Can't speak about the quality difference, as I've only handled a Stowa in person, but Stowa does allow some degree of customization as well (logo/no logo, manual/automatic and date/no date). And Stowa uses only top grade movements for their flieger watches. Laco definitely have more customization options, though. My main concern with them is that the Laco cases are slightly thicker.
Yeah, that's fair. Sinn have actually made some real watches for pilots over the years, but they definitely don't have the history of Stowa and Laco from WWII. (at least that of the original companies)
I'm somewhat surprised that Archimede is not getting more love. Sure, the brand is not very well known compared to Stowa and Laco, and is not part of the Original 5, but Ickler (the company behind Archimede) is:
still family owned (since 1924)
considered a top German watch case manufacturer
their watches use cases and hands made in-house (no idea what cases Stowa and Laco use these days)
they have flieger watches made out Titanium
Their 42mm hand-wound flieger is impressively thin (under 9mm)
Which is why they are on my radar, alongside the "Big Guns". :-)
Seestern does a full lume pilot that for $80 is a steal.
Seems like all 3 brands would get the job done but the reason I voted Archimede is because if you took brand and heritage out of the equation, it has the size I want 39mm (I prefer 38-39mm) and it uses 20mm straps which I have a ton of. Also it has black hand options which is more appealing to me than the blue outlined hands. Small details but they have value to me.
D. Damasko DS30.
Thats a really good looking watch and I love the strap you pair it with 😘🤌🏼
Love them all lol #laco #stowa #flieger 😂
https://www.laco-watches.com/en/watches/pilot-watch-original/pilot-watch-leipzig-42mm-handwinding
I’m late, I know. But I prefer Lacos original line. Though there are lots of good fliegers available.