Homage or history? Dirty dozen - What would you pick? #WWYP
Hi all!
Back with another one of these, admittedly it’s a fun way of gauging some really valuable opinions and insights.
I would like to get a black dress watch as i’m thinking about switching my seiko snk 809k to an 805k, or an alpinist. I settled on the dirty dozen design. I love the history, so the next question is what watch.
It seems there is a well priced homage watch from a baltany (S2025) £150, or the brand that was featured and commissioned by the MoD, timor heritage field www £970. Both come in at 36/7mm, and are identical to the eye.
I have seen some other good offerings from Vaer or vario. With that said, what would you pick?
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If you want something historical without breaking the bank the Bulova A-11 is a great watch.
If you want something historical without breaking the bank the Bulova A-11 is a great watch.
much more reasonably priced - thank you :)
It really depends how hung up one gets on brand and authenticity versus just caring about item quality. I tend to fixate on stuff, get it, and then forget all the nonsense, so spending that much extra would be silly for me. If the Baltany is available with an unbranded dial that would be my pick. I do like Vaer too, wore my C3 yesterday.
It really depends how hung up one gets on brand and authenticity versus just caring about item quality. I tend to fixate on stuff, get it, and then forget all the nonsense, so spending that much extra would be silly for me. If the Baltany is available with an unbranded dial that would be my pick. I do like Vaer too, wore my C3 yesterday.
thanks for the feedback :) everyone on here’s amazing, really good to get insights on a place that isn’t reddit or youtube comments! thank you and the vaer is a beautiful watch so you picked perfectly.
Personally I'd go for authenticity, an original manufacturer if it's within budget.
I'd rather opt for a CWC ( Mellor) and go for a "real" military watch rather than a homage from a microbrand - afterall, I'd be buying it for the history & style, not just the look.
Save the 800 and get the homage.
Baltany makes a great watch.
I am in the camp where, if you can afford the history, buy the history.
If you want to save a bunch of money and get arguably the same specs, by the homage.
The reality is, everyone homages each other lol.
Buy what you like 👍
I would answer both? It’s okay to pay homage, but it has to have brand identity. I’ll put one of my favourite watches of all time as an example, a Rolex Explorer. I love this watch and dream to own one day, but I will never buy a “homage” watch that even with “history” almost knocks off the entire design of the Explorer. The Smiths watch went to Everest alongside Rolex Explorer, more on that watch below, but the current Smith watch is just a blatant knock off of the Explorer, it looked nothing like the original as shown below.
https://www.everestbands.com/blogs/bezel-barrel/the-truth-about-rolex-smiths-and-mt-everest
Same goes with the Tudor. Tudor has homage as Rolex younger brother, and one GREAT THING I love about the Black Bay 58 and the Tudor Pelagos instead of being just a poor man’s submariner is that it takes two very different approaches in how the Tudor group would deisgn a dive watch. The black bay being the old school old soul type of diver, whereas the Pelagos being new, minimalistic and high tech with Titanium as the choice of material.
Then we have the Tudor Ranger, clear homage to the Rolex Explorer. They launched it in celebration for the British Antarctic Expedition and how the watch worn was a Tudor, but it’s not even the same bloody watch. Why make a homage of an Explorer when you have such an amazing story for your own designs?
This is my own beauty, a Seiko Alpinist. It’s clear they had some inspiration for this variant of the Alpinist to the Rolex Explorer, but it’s still Seikos own design language in the watch. There’s inspiration, and there’s laziness. So yeah, make great watches with your own identity.
Baltany makes a great watch.
I am in the camp where, if you can afford the history, buy the history.
If you want to save a bunch of money and get arguably the same specs, by the homage.
The reality is, everyone homages each other lol.
Buy what you like 👍
think that’s a very well rounded opinion! i will hold off for a while and see how much i really want the history watch, or bite the bullet and go with baltany :) thanks !
I would answer both? It’s okay to pay homage, but it has to have brand identity. I’ll put one of my favourite watches of all time as an example, a Rolex Explorer. I love this watch and dream to own one day, but I will never buy a “homage” watch that even with “history” almost knocks off the entire design of the Explorer. The Smiths watch went to Everest alongside Rolex Explorer, more on that watch below, but the current Smith watch is just a blatant knock off of the Explorer, it looked nothing like the original as shown below.
https://www.everestbands.com/blogs/bezel-barrel/the-truth-about-rolex-smiths-and-mt-everest
Same goes with the Tudor. Tudor has homage as Rolex younger brother, and one GREAT THING I love about the Black Bay 58 and the Tudor Pelagos instead of being just a poor man’s submariner is that it takes two very different approaches in how the Tudor group would deisgn a dive watch. The black bay being the old school old soul type of diver, whereas the Pelagos being new, minimalistic and high tech with Titanium as the choice of material.
Then we have the Tudor Ranger, clear homage to the Rolex Explorer. They launched it in celebration for the British Antarctic Expedition and how the watch worn was a Tudor, but it’s not even the same bloody watch. Why make a homage of an Explorer when you have such an amazing story for your own designs?
This is my own beauty, a Seiko Alpinist. It’s clear they had some inspiration for this variant of the Alpinist to the Rolex Explorer, but it’s still Seikos own design language in the watch. There’s inspiration, and there’s laziness. So yeah, make great watches with your own identity.
that was an amazing comment and a fascinating read! i was admittedly unaware of the smiths as a brand, but agree that tudor and rolex (especially the explorer) have a phenomenal amount of history tied to them and remain elegant in their own right :)
that was an amazing comment and a fascinating read! i was admittedly unaware of the smiths as a brand, but agree that tudor and rolex (especially the explorer) have a phenomenal amount of history tied to them and remain elegant in their own right :)
Thanks haha. All good I was very bored and found an excuse to talk about the Rolex Explorer.
An original D12 watch will be unreliable and relatively expensive. A modern interpretation is just that regardless of who's name is on the dial. Personally I would choose a Vertex over a Baltany but not because of the name.
I'm a little biased because I own the Baltany myself. All I can say is they make an excellent watch for the price. It was my first from this brand - purchased it for 97€ during sales - and I was instantly blown away by the finishing and crisp painting on the dial at this price point. I think the value for money is undeniable and now I keep a close eye on every new Baltany release because they produce great retro-military homages.
Now obviously I would have preferred a Vertex M100 if I could afford the $3000 for a re-issue from an original D12 manufacturer from the 40s. But that was way out of my budget for a field/beater watch slot in my collection.
These days you can find a British military-inspired watch at any price point. CWC makes a quartz G10 for $300. The Vario one has a stunning caseback for $370 but the 4 o'clock crown strays too far from the original for me. The Vaer is, in my opinion, absurdly overpriced at the same price bracket as the Timor, without the flair of being an original maker of the D12 during WW2.
I was pleasantly surprised how nice the Baltany Chrono is. This was a "let's give it a try" purchase.
I'm a little biased because I own the Baltany myself. All I can say is they make an excellent watch for the price. It was my first from this brand - purchased it for 97€ during sales - and I was instantly blown away by the finishing and crisp painting on the dial at this price point. I think the value for money is undeniable and now I keep a close eye on every new Baltany release because they produce great retro-military homages.
Now obviously I would have preferred a Vertex M100 if I could afford the $3000 for a re-issue from an original D12 manufacturer from the 40s. But that was way out of my budget for a field/beater watch slot in my collection.
These days you can find a British military-inspired watch at any price point. CWC makes a quartz G10 for $300. The Vario one has a stunning caseback for $370 but the 4 o'clock crown strays too far from the original for me. The Vaer is, in my opinion, absurdly overpriced at the same price bracket as the Timor, without the flair of being an original maker of the D12 during WW2.
Really good comment with great insights into brands and history! Thank you. I think I will go with the baltany for now, i did like vario’s dial however the price of the baltany is really really tempting for me.
I was pleasantly surprised how nice the Baltany Chrono is. This was a "let's give it a try" purchase.
another good review of the brand! i think i have made my mind up and will deffo be going with baltany. Thanks for the comment :)
Neither of these choices are a "black dress watch." I know that you can dress them up, but they are still historically field/tool watches. "Dress watch" is kind of an amorphous residual category but it never included Dirty Dozen watches.
But if this style is what you want you really don't have any bad choices among those listed. I have held a Vaer and been impressed with it. Don't overpay. These watches all look alike on purpose.
If you want Swiss Made, buy a Vaer, if you just want the look buy the inexpensive homage.
Most of the "heritage" brands making D12 watche's are zombie brands. They may have the name, and even a family connection, but they aren't the company that made the watches back in the day.
think that’s a very well rounded opinion! i will hold off for a while and see how much i really want the history watch, or bite the bullet and go with baltany :) thanks !
Glad I could help 😊🤝
Remember, you dont wear history, you wear a product.
Get the affordable option.
There seems to be a thought process on WatchCrunch that these dirty dozen watches are simple and there’s no point spending on something with this generic design, I find this quite strange as the design thesis is built on extreme practicality, to that end the ultimate updated/modernised version of this design is the Vertex M100. In hand it’s every bit it’s £2k price and much more of a tool watch than the modern explorer. The lume blocks and hands are finished perfectly and I genuinely wouldn’t recommend any other version, and I’m inherently fearful of vintage
I went through this same conundrum myself and bought the Baltany D12. If you're wondering, the watch was well built, well finished and was a joy to wear while I had it. Unfortunately after some time I still felt like I had on an impostor (which is stupid thinking, I know). I ended up selling it and purchasing a Hamilton khaki pilot pioneer and have no regrets. That being said, I don't think any chinese brand out there does homages better than Baltany does.
I went through this same conundrum myself and bought the Baltany D12. If you're wondering, the watch was well built, well finished and was a joy to wear while I had it. Unfortunately after some time I still felt like I had on an impostor (which is stupid thinking, I know). I ended up selling it and purchasing a Hamilton khaki pilot pioneer and have no regrets. That being said, I don't think any chinese brand out there does homages better than Baltany does.
thanks for the comment and review! i think i will go with the baltany, maybe down the line i’ll pull the same stunt you did :)
There seems to be a thought process on WatchCrunch that these dirty dozen watches are simple and there’s no point spending on something with this generic design, I find this quite strange as the design thesis is built on extreme practicality, to that end the ultimate updated/modernised version of this design is the Vertex M100. In hand it’s every bit it’s £2k price and much more of a tool watch than the modern explorer. The lume blocks and hands are finished perfectly and I genuinely wouldn’t recommend any other version, and I’m inherently fearful of vintage
The ultimate updated version is the Marathon SSNav, that uses a modern HAQ movement, and tritium tubes rather than superluminova. A watch designed for use by modern military users, who don't all use G-Shocks despite what the YouTubers say...
Buying a D12 design is buying a look more than a functional tool, hence the comments suggesting getting the look and reasonable build quality for the least cash possible.
The ultimate updated version is the Marathon SSNav, that uses a modern HAQ movement, and tritium tubes rather than superluminova. A watch designed for use by modern military users, who don't all use G-Shocks despite what the YouTubers say...
Buying a D12 design is buying a look more than a functional tool, hence the comments suggesting getting the look and reasonable build quality for the least cash possible.
The post was about dirty dozen watches this is not a dirty dozen update