Watch crunch Holy Trinity

Probably Tudor Grand seiko Rolex

My personal 'holy trinity':

1. Vacheron Constantin

2. Glashütte Original

3. Jaeger-LeCoultre

For relative affordability, diversity of styles and more than enough power reserve:

Oris, Baume & Mercier, Grand Seiko.

My holy Trinity would be:

Patek Philippe

Vacheron Constantin

Breguet

In my opinion AP is not worth anymore to be considered part of the holy trinity.

My Holy Trinity:

Daniel Willington, Vincero, MVMT

Because we don’t need the middle man.

Disqualified sorry don't have in house movements. see rule 1😄

Casio, Vostok, Orient.

Tears at G-Shock being put in the likes of Fitbit and Apple Watches 🥲.

My personal top 3 centered around field and dive/sports watches would be: 1) Sinn/Hamilton, 2) Tudor and 3) Omega.

The three brands I aspire to get a watch from are Lange, JLC and Breitling. That’s my trinity.

Hum, "holy tinity". To me that indicates high end, as high as you can get. 😎

OK, brands:

Patek Philip for dress

Richard Mille for sport

A Lange & Sohn just because you gotta have a German antelier.

Modern…hmmmm…maybe you go with sales numbers

Rolex, Cartier and Omega

Rolex, Omega, Grand Seiko

I personally think (upon reading the contents and reviews on this forum). And being attainable... WatchCrunch holy trinity is Rolex, Omega, and Cartier.

My 3 most desirable and on the to-buy list for 2024.

1. Aquanaut.

2. Rolex Day date.

3. Royal oak.

Why do they have to use in-house movements? For most of watch history people were sourcing movements out of house and still making top notch watches.

Really? I mean I know it’s not in the same league as Gronefeld, Ferdinand Berthoud, Philippe Dufour, Romain Gauthier & Roger W. Smith & Gruebel Forsey but surely above most PP, AP & VC models?

From what I’ve heard, the traditional holy trinity has been cutting back on movement finishing for all but the highest end models. With production numbers in the tens of thousands, they just don’t have the production capacity to hand finish all models on a similar fashion.

I’ll quote an article on WatchesbySJX “Many of the brands in this category have mastered the art of producing well-finished watches at industrial scale. This involves the use of machines for most of the finishing, embellished with hand finishing in key areas that are likely to have the greatest visual impact. A few of these brands flirt with inner angles, but this is uncommon; black-polished steel is rarely seen.

Worth noting is Patek Philippe, which employs 1,600 staff and produces about 68,000 watches per year, suggesting a maximum of 38.6 watchmaker-hours per watch. Looking at Patek’s mechanical watch production only, this number gets closer to 50 but still lags behind most rivals. This is important because it helps explain some of the choices the brand makes in its finishing.

For example, many collectors lamented the absence of any sharp inner angles on the new 5236 perpetual calendar. But the fact is that an average of less than 50 watchmaker-hours per watch is just not enough to add these kinds of sought-after flourishes to every watch, forcing the brand to ration these embellishments to their more elite pieces. While the absence is notable, good finishing is about much more than just inner angles and Patek’s movements remain at or near the top of this category in terms of overall quality.”

In contrast, Audemars Piguet currently produces about 48,000 watches per year with about 2,000 staff (up to 72.9 watchmaker-hours per watch). Even this impressive number requires rationing of inner angles, though they can be found abundantly relative to Patek.

Audemars Piguet recently announced plans to increase production to about 65,000 watches per year by 2027. It will be interesting to see how the brand meets these growth targets; were they to achieve this increase in volume with their current headcount, it would dilute their workrate closer to where Patek Philippe is today”

And that same WatchesbySJX article puts Lange & Journe in a category below those high end independents and above the traditional holy trinity brands. Fine Watchmaking Market Map

Been lax on the original Trinity criteria and otherwise it would be a complete free for all.

Fair enough. Thanks!

May I join? (But i think you already know my answer) 😂

Of course Adi guessing you are keeping the Original Trinity 😂 untouched Putting them aside what would you choose.

Mine would be

high end God tier

Lange / H. Moser / F.P. Journe.

Mid-tier

Rolex / Cartier / Bulgari

PS cartier has their own movements right?

Yeah Cartier have in house movements 👍

To me personally:

1. A. Lange & Söhne

2. Vacheron Constantin

3. Jaeger LeCoultre

I'll write an in-depth post about this at some point. For Lange, I've largely made my thoughts clear here: Why I own the Richard Lange.

VC LF GO Rolex Omega JLC Cartier Tudor.

At a more modest price point, assuming retail, I would say:

1. Rolex

2. Grand Seiko

3. Omega

Rolex in general don't appeal that much to me, but that is simply a matter of taste. They produce amazing watches at their price point, and within their respective niche (well-made sports watches with reliable and accurate movements and appealing designs) they are hard to beat. Grand Seiko on the other hand I really do like. My main issue with them is that I feel their lineup is somewhat lacking in versatility. For Omega it's quite the opposite: Their lineup is literally all over the place. I choose to include Omega over e.g. Tudor because I think that when Omega is at their best they are absolutely top tier. Tudor has a more consistent offering, in my opinion.

Changed my mind imma replace Lange with Parmigiani

Grand Seiko, A. Lange & Sohne, Omega. Purely based on my opinion of how they each push the industry forward but in different ways.

Yes, I agree but it’s in the highest level of artisanal-industrial.

Gronefeld, on the other hand is in the “Peak League” along with these 15 brands.

The WatchesbySJX article states- “At the highest level of watchmaking, brands produce fewer than five watches per employee per year, resulting in an average of 834 watchmaker-hours per watch across these 15 brands. Collectors often refer to brands in this category as “independents” but this term lacks precision; not all of these brands are truly independent, while some industrial brands further down the list are.

With production organised around a high degree of hand craftsmanship, output is naturally constrained by the time it takes to produce each watch, ensuring limited production. To put this in perspective, the 15 brands shown above make less than 500 watches per year, combined. In contrast, Rolex makes more than 2,000 watches every day.”

The next group called “Artisinal-Industrial” is where F.P. Journe & Lange reside.

“The brands in this category make on average, 6-20 watches per employee per year and can invest a maximum of 100-299 watchmaker-hours per watch. This category is dominated, commercially and culturally, by A. Lange & Söhne and F.P. Journe.

At this level, lush hand finishing is expected; black polished steel is common and inner angles can still be found, albeit to a lesser degree. Among brands that maintain a complete collection of different complications (chronographs, tourbillons, minute repeaters, perpetual calendars, and world timers), Lange and Journe are the most artisanal, with capacity for up to 212 and 264 watchmaker-hours for each watch, respectively.”-WatchesbySJX

My comment was mainly in regards to those three brands that I mentioned being categorized in groups above the Holy Trinity of Patek, AP & Vacheron.

These brands are found in a group labeled “Industrial Haute Horlogerie”

The article goes on to explain:

“Many of the brands in this category have mastered the art of producing well-finished watches at industrial scale. This involves the use of machines for most of the finishing, embellished with hand finishing in key areas that are likely to have the greatest visual impact. A few of these brands flirt with inner angles, but this is uncommon; black-polished steel is rarely seen.

Worth noting is Patek Philippe, which employs 1,600 staff and produces about 68,000 watches per year, suggesting a maximum of 38.6 watchmaker-hours per watch. Looking at Patek’s mechanical watch production only, this number gets closer to 50 but still lags behind most rivals. This is important because it helps explain some of the choices the brand makes in its finishing.

For example, many collectors lamented the absence of any sharp inner angles on the new 5236 perpetual calendar. But the fact is that an average of less than 50 watchmaker-hours per watch is just not enough to add these kinds of sought-after flourishes to every watch, forcing the brand to ration these embellishments to their more elite pieces. While the absence is notable, good finishing is about much more than just inner angles and Patek’s movements remain at or near the top of this category in terms of overall quality.”-WatchesbySJX